Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[JacksonVirgo]

If end up being the elim, monkey is almost definitely Town here as is Navi.

[JamesTheNames]

If end up being the elim, monkey is almost definitely Town here as is Navi.

I second this, but I'm not as certain on HumanEatingMonkey

[JamesTheNames]

Admittedly I should stop being really stubborn I'm not helping the game and I don't want to ruin it for Jackson any more than I have.
Jackson and Dum are my priorities, I can't not see them as a duo, at least not right now, I'm also okay with going for a Fizz Raab Elim, but I'm not confident in this.

[JacksonVirgo]

If end up being the elim, monkey is almost definitely Town here as is Navi.

I second this, but I'm not as certain on HumanEatingMonkey

From my perspective, or everyones when I flip Town. HEM actively caught a "slip", albeit wrong but that's beyond the point that can be read as a perspective slip and I don't think scum would be that observant at that point, where they had actively town-read me prior (as far as I recall). I am confident on my life that they're Town, at least for now.

[JacksonVirgo]

Admittedly I should stop being really stubborn I'm not helping the game and I don't want to ruin it for Jackson any more than I have.
Jackson and Dum are my priorities, I can't not see them as a duo, at least not right now, I'm also okay with going for a Fizz Raab Elim, but I'm not confident in this.

No no, you didn't ruin anything. I did so myself.
I'm willing to back off from my tunnel on you and do a compromise wagon on Dum if that can be swung, I still scum-read you by far but I also think continuing down that hole will make the game too toxic, at least for now. Assuming I even live which is unlikely.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also may I ask a question. If Dum/Myself get eliminated and flip Town, would that affect your read on the other considering you're reading us both as a pair.

[JacksonVirgo]

One thing I am a small bit concerned about with HEM is that when I appear with a "contraversial" read such as Dum (at the time) and Nav, they seem to switch their reads not immediately but a small bit afterwards. Either I am good at reading early queues more than other's or something else.

[JamesTheNames]

Also may I ask a question. If Dum/Myself get eliminated and flip Town, would that affect your read on the other considering you're reading us both as a pair.

It would yes. There'd still be suspicions on whichever stays, but my whole issue is I really can't see any other explanation for why you didn't vote Dum. For pressure reasons and such from earlier.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm sorry JV but I don't read this as genuine.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also may I ask a question. If Dum/Myself get eliminated and flip Town, would that affect your read on the other considering you're reading us both as a pair.

It would yes. There'd still be suspicions on whichever stays, but my whole issue is I really can't see any other explanation for why you didn't vote Dum. For pressure reasons and such from earlier.

Alright now that I have a clearer head and we're more civil I will try and explain this. From the very start of my read on Dum, the read was heavily in gut and I've learned to announce my gut reads but not tunnel them like I used to. Salsa/yourself was acting scummy in a sense that I could narrow down with actual logical thinking, salsa did not post/quote/respond to anything that was not directly backing up their own agenda, from memory their tone was also filled with self-preservation so that combined with not posting about anything that went against them made me think it's newb!scum pushing an agenda and trying not to stand out in the spotlight as best as possible. You then appeared with a similar agenda, focused mainly on scum-reading me which pinged me to the fact that 1. I was scum-reading you and it feels like OMGUS and 2. Your predecessor rejected everything that went against them. Both of which I feel are attempting to push the exact same agenda, self-preservation.

Now all I have on Dum is speculation based on their tone, which is stronger now that the game has progressed but not as strong as the read on your slot. Their tone seems overly apologetic and like they're trying to minimise backlash from their posts. That logic is much weaker than the one I had on you and thus I was never going to vote them over yourself, you then appeared essentially throwing an attack on me stating that I should have voted Dum if I were Town but that's entirely not the case at all, but either you're scum needing to throw a case at me or you're Town that's blind/biased to the fact that my logic on you was stronger to me, which other's also called out which I can only assume you didn't fully absorb because of your read.

--

I am also here to explain that associations read are kinda wack. Try, even for a second, removing that association read in your head (aka try to not think Dum and I are partners for a second) and think what your reads would be in that case, because you following this path by assuming we're both partners (which in a vacuum, chances are incredibly slim regardless) is making yourself tunnel-visioned. This is assuming that you're Town that's tunneling here and not scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm sorry JV but I don't read this as genuine.

Again, don't be sorry because I couldn't care less. I completely understand my position here, but if possible give me a chance because I was heated and wasn't in the right mind. If you cannot that's fine too, I am just glad I didn't slip in end-game again

[JacksonVirgo]

Or if you cannot give me a chance, at least hear my words so that you still have my perspective when I flip.

[JacksonVirgo]

To those scum-reading Fizz, can you please compare them to this game and tell me what you get from comparing the two
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[NinjaStore]

navigatorv is reading more townish at this point.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So explain to me you guys as someone who's never played mafia and want to get better at playing the game; how do you do reads? I want to help, but I don't know how to do this.

he wants to help, but he doesn't know how to do this. he has the self-awareness to understand that he's not helping at all.

here, he seems to think he's more helpful than me.

[JacksonVirgo]

So explain to me you guys as someone who's never played mafia and want to get better at playing the game; how do you do reads? I want to help, but I don't know how to do this.

he wants to help, but he doesn't know how to do this. he has the self-awareness to understand that he's not helping at all.

here, he seems to think he's more helpful than me.

Can you back this up with quotes?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I was heated and wasn't in the right mind

I don't doubt that you were heated, but I think you were heated because I think you felt like caught scum there.

[JacksonVirgo]

navigatorv is reading more townish at this point.

This is the general town conscience at this point, is there a reason you're saying this now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has.

[JacksonVirgo]

I was heated and wasn't in the right mind

I don't doubt that you were heated, but I think you were heated because I think you felt like caught scum there.

It's hard to convince you that you're wrong when I completely agree with the logic, but as a shot in the dark I was heated because I had to deal with a seeming brick wall twice in a row which is spitting ridiculous accusations. It's honestly the most frustrating thing, I also don't like to bring real life into things but I had a bad few days (I did get the BTS meal at maccas today though which was great) which could have also rocketed that further than was needed.

[JacksonVirgo]

And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has.

Oh shit. That's a complete contrast to their end in the game I linked. I can see what you're on now. Fizz in the other game admitted that they made a bad newbie mistake (claiming PR too early) and I agree that it doesn't match that.

[NinjaStore]

Since HEM is targeting Fizz I looked back through both of their posts.

I'm reading HEM as town. He has been asking a lot of direct questions since the very early game, which gets people talking. A few people have criticized him for having short posts, but his posts generally do something to advance the game. If anyone thinks a specific post of his lacks detail, you can always ask him to clarify.

Fizz focuses heavily on why people read her as scum and not a whole lot else.

I'm sorry, how does overexplaining stuff this class as a scum move? I think voting for me over this is absolotely ridiclilous. What's wrong with overexplaining something? Please tell me.

So what if I am. It still doesn't classify as a scum move and a ridiclious reason to vote me.

I want to know why I'm being scum when the humaneatingmonkey is playing really scummy. Half of the time, humaneatingmonkey hasn't really put in much contribution other than saying like this and that post with no logical points made. How is that not being scum and my long posts are? Please people, make some sense here. So yes you are being scum with your unhelpful advice.

And you are wrong if you think I'm scum when I've been way more helpful than HumanEatingMonkey has. Tell me what is alright with HumanEatingMonkey doing short posts without any information or real contribution to the game? Please explain your thoughts because I rather give out full details with my overexplaining things than having one post liners which is ridiclious to think that's fun when really, it does absolutely nothing to help with this game. Are you scum I wonder as well if your sticking up for someone being clear on likes and dislike posts and one liners. How is that not suspious to you?

Ugh, being placed as scum for no reason whatsoever is pretty stupid if you ask me with no clear evidence of my posts at all. What do I see is scum is someone doing one line posts without any contribution and it seems like the only time he has made more than one line posts is when I called humaneatingmonkey on it. Let's see you do more than that dude. Obviously, I don't see Jackson scum at all with his helpful posts. I don't know if you noticed humaneatingmonkey, but I'm not good at understanding posts sometimes. It takes me a while to fully get it. I have nobody else apart from you that speaks out as scum just at this minute. I have to go through all the posts to clarify a few more posts that aren't scum posts to me.

Hm this post right here changes everything. Why would you admit about everyone eliminating you just because you think people will agree on you being scum. But it's funny you claim me as scum when you have no evidence of it. This right here speaks complete volumes with how nobody is speaking scum from this post and even hinting if you are scum. I don't know why you're coming out with this post that isn't something any player would say. So maybe I'll put you in the scum list as well just from this post alone.

And two posts scumreading HEM for having short posts:

For one people voting without a reason for it. People who just do short posts without a reasoning for it. I think this is one dumb vote on your part. Why is the guy your defending classifies as town?

This is the reason why I'm reading you as scum right now, more than who I voted at this point because of your one-line spam posts and I have no idea why you're being cleared as town from a few people, despite the activity. It's easy to be active when you only do one-line posts that you haven't helped anybody with your posts at all. Just asking questions when really I want to know why you aren't putting more effort into posting more than just one-liners. Because in the last game I played, I did catch a scum player by their one-line posts and were labelled with that. Why would I think differently with you?

UNVOTE: Micc

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[NinjaStore]

What I can do though is put my money where my mouth is. I have a proposition that I'd like to make. I understand if you don't want to risk potentially falling into a mafia trap, so I'll stay silent on it if you'd prefer not to hear it, but if you're willing to hear me out, I'd gladly share, even if the consensus turns out to be a "no".

I'm curious. Shoot.

So we have about 3 days until the deadline for voting. While it seems like things have been narrowed down, we still don't have a consensus on who to vote for. My proposition is this: if we can't narrow it down so that the majority of town agrees on one person by 12 hours before the deadline, everyone eliminates me. Even though you wouldn't be eliminating scum, you'd still have a higher chance of finding scum on later days which is still a net gain.
Now obviously if I'm scum I could use this opportunity to try and convince everyone to vote for one of the three prime suspects, so if town agrees to this, I'll stop posting unless someone specifically requests a response from me.

Hm this post right here changes everything.

Why would you admit about everyone eliminating you just because you think people will agree on you being scum. But it's funny you claim me as scum when you have no evidence of it. This right here speaks complete volumes with how nobody is speaking scum from this post and even hinting if you are scum. I don't know why you're coming out with this post that isn't something any player would say. So maybe I'll put you in the scum list as well just from this post alone.

The part in green is a weird thing to say. Feels like acting.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I had to deal with a seeming brick wall twice in a row which is spitting ridiculous accusations

Accusations that seem to come from a person you think is scum, not from someone you think is town. Why would you get heated with those?

Man, is this a new meta? Going for vulnerability and self-awareness when caught? It's very hard to engage you when you're agreeing with me and chalking it up as a simple mistake. It's very effective.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm willing to yeet JacksonVirgo or Fizz Raab today.