Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[Ydrasse]

i feel like an ass honestly because seeing his progression and throwing the vote down on me compared to what i'd read of vcs + d1 and part of yesterday felt really scummy to me and i was like, "oh i have good reads i can do this!"

and okay we both know i'm dumb but do you think i'm dumb enough to get advice from you and go into a game and do it in the very next game we're in while you're town LOL

[Ydrasse]

like yes, this is what ydrasse wants to do, she wants to fight someone who is keenly aware of how she approaches scum right after they spoke about it and knowing that this person will 1v1 to the death

[Menalque]

1 e___e i don't know if you could just hardpush me though frankly because i would very much not put up with it lol

2 it's hard for me to just say "i'm clearly trying to solve" from you as something i should townread because you... can do that as town too imo?

(1) maybe I couldn't, but the point is I would very clearly have *a* target in mind. even if I went after you and failed, spewing you town, my partner would then have an easy scapegoat for the kill that gave little info and a solid chance of winning 3p

(2) I'm assuming this was meant to say "hard to see "I'm clearly trying to solve" from you at something I should townread [... because] you can do that as [scum] too imo?"

[Menalque]

and okay we both know i'm dumb but do you think i'm dumb enough to get advice from you and go into a game and do it in the very next game we're in while you're town LOL

I don't think this is dumb if you think I'm a viable mislim or won't be listened to lol

I mean the other thing I told you was "it doesn't matter if you're obvscum to someone, it only matters if you're obvscum to the person you need to cast the vote for the other townie"

so you coming in and not caring all that much about how I read you (while obviously not just outright openwolfing) actually fits very well with the advice I gave you

[Ydrasse]

it meant "i cannot just at facevalue take you trying to solve as something that's towny because scum you could fake that i think and i want to look at how you progressed through it to see if it's ""good faith"""

[Ydrasse]

do you genuinely think that i would think you're someone that won't be listened to or easy to miselim? (in theory i guess "viable" isn't the same as easy but given i don't have a lot of momentum as scum they're two things that go hand in hand for me, and i very much would not come into a game as scum like, off the bat trying to pick at you)

and you're ignoring the point, you gave me that advice, /but do you think i put it into use against you/

knowing that we could also have this same exact conversation in front of everyone?

[Menalque]

like yes, this is what ydrasse wants to do, she wants to fight someone who is keenly aware of how she approaches scum right after they spoke about it and knowing that this person will 1v1 to the death

this doesn't really feel like what you're doing tho?

idk it feels like you don't particularly want to fight me (fair, I don't really wanna fight you obviously uwu) but it also just seems disingenuous to suggest that you wouldn't do a very solid scum!move after repping in just because it was advice I gave to you to play like that as scum

like the whole reason it's good advice imo is that it just increases your win % as scum. I think I'd honestly be less uncomfortable if you weren't trying to make out that it would be a really dumb thing for you to do but were saying something like "okay yes, I understand why you think scum!me would do that BUT I'M STILL NOT SCUM for X, Y, Z reasons"

like I'm not wedded to it but it just seems funky + I still think the way gypyx engaged with the thread after voting drap on D1 was really bad

[Menalque]

it meant "i cannot just at facevalue take you trying to solve as something that's towny because scum you could fake that i think and i want to look at how you progressed through it to see if it's ""good faith"""

yeah, that's fair, I wouldn't expect anyone to take me saying "I was clearly trying to solve at X point in the game" as fact because I can and will lie about that shit as scum lmao

mostly I feel fairly unconcerned tho

idk, either I'm the designated mislim in which case scum have to push me or vote me, which in turn probably makes it p obvious to me who scum is and I can devote all my energy to going HARD on them

or I'm the patsy who was meant to misvote town here and lose the game, in which case all I need to worry about is trying to get the solve right here and then prosecuting it as best I can

[Ydrasse]

(sidenote, i know we're being serious, BUT.)

Spoiler:

[Ydrasse]

to me it just boils down to like... internally, i know that i do not do this as scum despite your advice, /because/ you are the person who gave the advice. it is good advice i would use, but not in the context of joining a game when and where i did and positioning myself against you who has this knowledge. and i don't have a way to communicate that to you because it depends entirely on like, me knowing how i act/behave and knowing my alignment.

[Ydrasse]

(and i also don't want to fight you/get you elimmed as either alignment, you're right, which very much sucks if you are scum because i have to.)

[Ydrasse]

that being said i'm not sure that you are scum but i've given my reasons thus far.

what are you thinking about bingle?

[Menalque]

do you genuinely think that i would think you're someone that won't be listened to or easy to miselim? (in theory i guess "viable" isn't the same as easy but given i don't have a lot of momentum as scum they're two things that go hand in hand for me, and i very much would not come into a game as scum like, off the bat trying to pick at you)

and you're ignoring the point, you gave me that advice, /but do you think i put it into use against you/

knowing that we could also have this same exact conversation in front of everyone?

I think my position is much weaker this game than it is in most lylo situations. why? because I was (1) largely absent for the first couple of days (2) drap specifically tried to create linkages between our slots with his posts and to make me look like a buddy, something which really makes me look worse in conjunction with my soft-defending the slot (3) a number of flipped dead town have been susp of me (4) I was again on the wrong wagon EoD yesterday

yeah, I'm never gonna make it *easy* for scum to mislim me if I can help it, but I've been wrong a lot this game and people the to perceive that as scummy even when they shouldn't (look at what happened to infinity in p-mylo)

and whether I'm listened to or not is directly related to whether scum think I can be miselimmed here. if they think I can, they don't need to worry about people listening to me, the only case they need to worry about that is if they think I *can't* be miselimmed (when I think I clearly can be) bc then there's a risk that if I successfully lim scum today, I might be cheeped tomorrow (I'm assuming the only cases where I'm not limmed today are cases where I lead a lim on scum, which in turn makes me very town after a scumflip)

and uh, yes, I think it's v plausible that you would lol

[Menalque]

(sidenote, i know we're being serious, BUT.)

Spoiler:

this did make me laugh

[Menalque]

to me it just boils down to like... internally, i know that i do not do this as scum despite your advice, /because/ you are the person who gave the advice. it is good advice i would use, but not in the context of joining a game when and where i did and positioning myself against you who has this knowledge. and i don't have a way to communicate that to you because it depends entirely on like, me knowing how i act/behave and knowing my alignment.

sorry but this falls under "stuff I'm gonna ignore when deciding who to vote today because it feels like wifom"

that being said i'm not sure that you are scum but i've given my reasons thus far.

what are you thinking about bingle?

bingle has also felt weirdly like he wants me on-side, especially yesterday. given that scum have played well this game (by dint of where we are, this is true) I'm following my general rule that you shouldn't trust whatever you were thinking the day before. my EoD feeling was that you/bingle were maybe more likely town. now that we're in lylo, I think probably that's what I was meant to think and that we're in this lylo for a reason

again, if I am the designated mislim that changes things, but I get patsy vibes. idk why bingle was so confident on me being town yesterday and it feels TMI

[Ydrasse]

i mean yeah, we're basically at a mutual point where we're saying things about ourselves like "this is why we aren't scum" and it's gonna feel like wifom to each other where we'll disagree and go "nope this could be a lie" to the other but i think it's probably best interests for me to express that viewpoint because i just don't know how else to, lol

why is it weird that bingle thinks you're town when like, from your pov you putting in all that effort and trying to solve yesterday is a +town thing for you? like, realistically i get re-evaluating but doing a 180 flip doesn't seem like... i don't know how to explain this. it comes across as opportunistic for you to do, maybe? at least the read on me, and i guess it inherently means you're positioning yourself with grandpa/nm?

(which i don't like for the former, and i hope the latter can give his wise words of wisdom.)

actually can you also explain what you're thinking about the other two?

[Menalque]

why is it weird that bingle thinks you're town when like, from your pov you putting in all that effort and trying to solve yesterday is a +town thing for you?

bc I don't think I'd been like *that* towny at that point and I think part of what made me look town was from interacting with bingle himself -- hence, he shouldn't have had that level of confidence prior to the interaction, which is what I think it felt like

[Menalque]

it comes across as opportunistic for you to do, maybe?

idk what the benefit is to scum!me in not either keeping all my options open or in pushing hard from the beginning for whomever I perceive to be the easiest elim

like, obviously not impossible but this just feels flawed as a point of argument

[Menalque]

actually can you also explain what you're thinking about the other two?

no opinion really

like all y'all have things that are scummy but the best way to choose correctly in lylo is to ignore what your personal feelings are and to try to figure out why *you* are in lylo and why scum wanted you there

I've made a couple of hero calls (tbf sometimes when spectating) where I would have or did vote correctly in lylo by voting for the person my gut was screaming at me was town instead of the one who I'd been scum reading all game

ofc it feels much worse when you get beaten by the person you SR all game because of paranoia but that happens less often comparatively

[Ydrasse]

the logical trail i follow w saying that is your options were open until it was necessary to close them in a bit on what was easier to do? but i get your point

i'm reserving judgement on the bingle thing until i read it which is probably not right now >_>

p-edit: i wanted some quick thoughts on their alignments from your pov not an opt out ;_;

[Menalque]

my quick thoughts on all of you are that you could be scum or could be town and idk which one that is but I'm gonna trust in my method of casting my vote today based on the past days of the game rather than anything that happens today (most likely, the obvious caveat being if scum double down on pushing me today)

[Ydrasse]

what happens if i vote u rn

[Menalque]

well if you're town then we lose, if you're scum then after everyone has checked in and there's no qh I tunnel your slot as hard as I can while being nice

[Ydrasse]

have you no humor today

[Menalque]

the "being nice" bit is specific to the fact that you're in the slot, btw

although obviously I would try not to be mean to anyone but admittedly I think I would struggle to go as hard on you as I would on someone who I felt generally less positive towards