Mini Normal 2211 || Summer Meet [Endgame]

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont think lynching vfp today is the mechanically right way to play the game

[Anya]

we can't have this much cop type power in the town though

no way that's balanced against 2 wolves + 1 traitor

[Anya]

2 masons and neighbour friend are confirmed town

and then PT cop potentially creates more confirmed towns

[Anya]

it is just gera if not vfp i think

[humaneatingmonkey]

that's why i think 2 traitors 2 mafia, could make it possible.

[Dunnstral]

i dont think lynching vfp today is the mechanically right way to play the game

It isn't

[humaneatingmonkey]

if i were to believe VFP's claim here, I 100% think there's 2 more scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

let me gather my thoughts for a bit

[InsidiousLemons]

if i were to believe VFP's claim here, I 100% think there's 2 more scum.

if there are 4 scum out of 12 players with no protective roles, that means that if town miseliminates once, we're in ELo (6v4)

with no way of knowing it

and thus no impetus not to eliminate. miseliminate once more, and we instantly lose. with a PT cop who can get 2 false guilties and 1 false innocent, a friendly neighbour who isn't allowed to reveal himself until N2, a mafia rolestopper who can theoretically nullify any of these actions, and a pair of masons who can only be confirmed via each other's elimination, does this sound like a setup that ever passes review?

[InsidiousLemons]

VFP is never the correct choice here. i don't believe ivy or monkey are ever valid either. we lim in {lemons, gerain, dunn, T3, egix}

[InsidiousLemons]

addendum: 1658 assumes scum doesn't hit their traitors either night. i still think it makes a valid point, because even with a random choice there's only a 2/9 chance N1 and a 2/7 chance N2 that scum would indeed hit one of their traitors.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If that's true, then VFP is the remaining scum here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

In that case, why would the mafia be so underpowered? There's multiple non-rand ways to confirm yourself as town here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't do setup speculation. Maybe Dunnstral or geraintm can help out here.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: VFP Maybe this wins the game, again.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VFP is at E-1.

[Anya]

think this wins us the pinata

[humaneatingmonkey]

I wonder who would alley-oop the ball to the basket.

[InsidiousLemons]

In that case, why would the mafia be so underpowered? There's multiple non-rand ways to confirm yourself as town here.

i like, adamantly believe VFP is town here. i don't see why you guys are so determined that this is the winning play. scum were informed of PTs, have a rolestopper who could halt checks without having to risk stopping the NK, a fruit vendor who, if they successfully passed themself off as town, could cast extreme doubt on an even-night FN claim, and who knows whether the final scum has a non-factional ability as well. i don't see a compelling case for why PT cop is so unrealistic given the rest of the claims

[humaneatingmonkey]

but Lemons, I already think VFP is scum by play and if you're right about the setup, I already know he's lying about being a PT cop. A fruit vendor isn't a friendly neighbor. Also, the traitor can't coordinate kills with mafia.

[humaneatingmonkey]

2.5 scum on town that can identify each other both by play, by massclaim, and by night action? it's a tough sell.

[InsidiousLemons]

who do you think it is if VFP does flip PT cop?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Town Mason
Town Mason
Even-Night Friendly Neighbor
Town PT Cop
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Informed Rolestopper Traitor
Mafia Informed Fruit Vendor
Mafia ?

Is this a setup that makes sense to you? Whatever multi-tasking role that last mafia has, it's still underpowered vs. a town that just confirms itself.

[humaneatingmonkey]

The traitor can't even coordinate with his team.

[InsidiousLemons]

you may be right that i'm overestimating the value of a fruit vendor. this is my first game featuring one, so i'm not really familiar with how their night actions tend to be interpreted.

so then would you replace PT cop with VT? i feel like it doesn't make sense for the rolestopper's only utility to be in preventing an even-night friendly neighbour's target from receiving the message