osuka's Mini Normal Review, June 2021

[implosion]

There was an earlier draft that I pointed out some non-normalcy issues with.

in any case - if elite bodyguard is not just a modified bodyguard and in fact a different role (so not normal), _or_ if the traitor strongman cannot actually commit a night kill, then we'll go with the following:

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1x even-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x odd-night town doctor
1x town weak visitor
1x town gunsmith
1x town neighbor
4x vanilla townies

1x traitor disloyal neighborizer
1x mafia even night commuter
1x mafia neighbor

[implosion]

Primary: Isis
Secondary: northsidegal

[northsidegal]

ego

[Isis]

Rough draft is very townsided

[Isis]

I think it's more than one role cut from being balanced. I'm supposed to make counter offers but you have so much town power you can carve away it my be more productive to see a second draft.

[osuka]

i think we get rid of the doctor and make the gunsmith odd-night

[osuka]

on the phone right now so it’s hard to post a complete list but pretend like it is here

should we give scum more utility as well?

[northsidegal]

I think that traitor disloyal neighborizer is both a really negative utility role for scum as well as just a really bad feeling role to have, both for the traitor and the scumteam at large. Optimal play there is probably just never to use the role, which I think probably indicates something should change.

[Isis]

Oh I missed that interaction, using the role makes the traitor appear guilty. Holstering makes the traitor a godfather.

[northsidegal]

Yeah, and even without the TA interaction you don't want to clear the people in your neighborhood after your death

[osuka]

how about traitor combined cop neighborizer? that gives less info to town on a traitor flip

the idea behind disloyal was for there to be a misleading pseudo soft clear on the mafia neighbor

[Isis]

I think what you want to do is flipflop it. Make the group scum member a simple neighborizer and make sure the partner has a PR.
Then give the traitor a fixed N0 neighborhood

[Isis]

The scumpartner doesn't actually need a PR nevermind, the mafias can already communicate with eachother

[osuka]

so traitor neighbor and mafia neighborizer?

[Isis]

Right

[Isis]

Right

[osuka]

what if we make a town neighborizer and give mafia another pr? say we have cop traitor and mafia roleblocker

[Isis]

I'm not sure if cop traitor is something that would be considered normal or not. A mafia cop would make more sense.

I think some players consider roles that cannot do anything bastard, at least in some contexts, and I think that'd be one of those contexts.

[osuka]

traitor neighbor and mafia neighbor rolecop + mafia rolestopper? no neighborizer here, but one town neighbor

[northsidegal]

I'm not sure if cop traitor is something that would be considered normal or not. A mafia cop would make more sense.

I think some players consider roles that cannot do anything bastard, at least in some contexts, and I think that'd be one of those contexts.

disagree, i think that traitor cop is normal and i even think it's been done before

i think i've lost track a bit of the setup as it stands but i'm a decent enough fan of traitor cop. i even think traitor combined cop neighborizer is kind of interesting

[osuka]

so how about

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1x odd-night traffic analyst
1x non-consecutive 2-shot town jailkeeper
1x town weak visitor
1x town even-night gunsmith
1x town neighbor
5x vanilla townies

1x traitor combined cop neighborizer
1x mafia even night commuter
1x mafia odd-night rolecop

[osuka]

i'm a fan of the setup above and i think it captures the original spirit i had in mind

[Isis]

nsg is more familiar with normals than i am so if she says traitor cop is normal it's normal

this setup is ok aesthetically but I think the town power level is still really high.

[osuka]

are any of the tprs particular pain points for you?

[Isis]

I think it's ok if you cut the weak visitor.