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[Save The Dragons]

whoa i'm way behind. will try to catch up tonight or tomorrow

[nomnomnom]

my thoughts so far:
getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one
the mech talk at beginning of thread makes reads messy for me so I ain't touching those, not even with gloves
I don't like these pushes on dwlee and peta, not because of the way it's started, it's just that these pushes on "loud guys" day 1 often don't end well in my experience
I wanna focus on the guys that give me "cruising by" vibes cuz even if one of dwlee/peta is scum it just means other scums are just cruising by, i wanna make this more out of this day 1 than "push confrontational loudmouth"
Out of everything I read I feel rathe's progression is the one that sticks out the most, cruising by posts, non confrontational tone when called scum + joining on popular bandwagon gives me the vibe of scum trying not to gather attention, another worrying fact is people calling the slot scum but not pushing it, I wanna force the issue on this one
VOTE: Rathe
Kyouko's 104 also struck me as bad when there's a bunch of shit happening and going with a rvs-like vote
That's where I'm at right now more or less
now push with me or ur scum kthxbye

It's not an RVS vote btw

Then I'd very much like an explanation for that one
VOTE: Kyouko

[nomnomnom]

idk why but Rathe feels different to the two towngames I played with him but that could be a function of me being scum iiin both games.

Good, veefp is town. Rathe also is town I think, but less sure on this.

What changed your mind on rathe?

VOTE: kyo
Can't say why because of ongoing games but that plus the reasons said above.

What reasons in particular?

[petapan]

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

why exactly are you voting DW? you just sorted plopped down a vote on a growing bandwagon.

im sheeping this game n i think dgb is probably town

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

why exactly are you voting DW? you just sorted plopped down a vote on a growing bandwagon.

im sheeping this game n i think dgb is probably town

lol every new account is just someone's alt huh

regardless, i see people suspecting rathe, does he really fall back to just blatantly sheeping like this as scum? ehhh. not sold on it

[Nero Cain]

I actually think there are only a handful of actual players and the rest are just alts

[Dragon of the West]

At the end of page 9 now. Anya has a few posts but hasn't actually said anything meaningful or shared thoughts on the discussion so far. just jumps in to make offhand comments

[petapan]

getting town vibes from nero, reminds me of the few games I played with him where he was town, nothing out of the ordinary, feeling pretty confident about this one

i never care for this sort of casual meta read, he's gonna seem similar across games because he's the same person, without a baseline for his scum meta this sort of thinking can easily lead you astray

No, I changed my vote because I think Peta might be just stubborn town and I already said I find rathe scummy. His response to me saying I thought he was evil was "k" and ignoring the post where I explained why I didn't like his post to ask me if it was just because he was voting me.

you're saying i might be stubborn, it's barely been a day into the game though, do you believe from your posting up through now i should be seeing you as town?

or nom3 is just scum that's pushing the next easiest wagon to split the peta voters. Peta/DW aren't being voted b/c they are loud. Its b/c Peta is generally scummy for buddying DGB and being

LAMIST

. I also feel like he kinda slipped in 156. DGB's proposal, DW calling it out and then Peta calling him scum for it is most of if not all the game so nom not really wanting to comment on that is pretty suspicious but I feel like Peta put scum in a bad position anyways. And just whitwashing the day so far as "pushing confrontational loudmouths" is so incredibly wrong. He's being a revisionist.

There is one thing I'll give nom and its that Rathe is sort of coasting and the whole "I'm sheeping this game" is somewhat concerning but I'm not quite sure if it's outside of his wheelhouse as town b/c last game a few players called me scum on d1 (though I only remember Andre) and he investigated me so...

not really getting stubborn town from Peta.

everything nero spouts is just total bullshit, townreading someone early isn't in and of itself buddying, my posts aren't LAMIST, nothing in that post is close to a slip

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is

fine

and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

[petapan]

like, I don't really understand why you'd join a game with the intention to not play unless you landed scum and lurking/coasting helps your faction.

It was more of a joke at Osuka. He doesn't like me saying that.
If you gave me more than 8 minutes to read the game that would be useful.

But I have now.
And I still don't understand how Dwlee is the leading wagon.

Your post 74 I agree with but not so much seeing anything else that seems bad.

So someone explain to me like I'm 5 why Dwlee or Peter Pan are a good choice here?

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

please don't summarize arguments you don't actually understand

[Dwlee99]

you're saying i might be stubborn, it's barely been a day into the game though, do you believe from your posting up through now i should be seeing you as town?

You should be at least trying to gather new info on me to update your read, which you haven't done at all. We had an exchange where I asked about your Osuka read because I wanted to know what was different about their reaction to DGB's plan and you twisted that into me being scum.

[Dwlee99]

You're doing the exact same thing to Nero because every post where he talks about different thought processes he has you talk about how it is total bullshit and it's tiring. DotW put it nicely when he said you're twisting anything to put fire on people.

[Dragon of the West]

Of course I say Anya hasn't said much of substance at the end of Page 9 and they have multiple real comments on the next page. Can someone explain the meaning/context of "pt" to me? Can't find that on the wiki or abbreviation list.

[Dwlee99]

Private topic/private thread. It's a thread that a limited number of people in the game have access to (like the mafia chat, for instance).

[petapan]

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

This doesn't read like someone who's unhappy at Dwlee for not following DGB's plan. It seems to be more about how it was shut down and the reaction Dwlee given. I'm not saying I agree, but let's not read a story here.
Peta can explain some thought process into this and why Dwlee is scum here.

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

[Dragon of the West]

Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

[petapan]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one and the last i quoted, so why the difference?

[nomnomnom]

i never care for this sort of casual meta read, he's gonna seem similar across games because he's the same person, without a baseline for his scum meta this sort of thinking can easily lead you astray

it's more than meta, his posts make sense and even though the argument that I'm somehow trying to deflect from your wagon because we're partners is silly, it just strikes me as town who wants his top sr lynched, that line of thinking on day 1 doesn't strike me as scum at all

[Nero Cain]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

[petapan]

Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

[Dwlee99]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one an d the last i quoted, so why the difference?

Sorry, inconsistencies don't matter.
Seriously though, you selectively quoted this to remove the context of someone asking why I think you might be scum which is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

[petapan]

this feels like a sort of reflexive discrediting of nom, who is, i dunno, his entry so far i would say is fine and the conclusion nero jumps to, that nom is my partner trying to save me with an alternate wagon is a fairly ludicrous reach, i'm confbiased but imho that's not a believable train of thought at all

is this any different than you calling me DWs partner b/c I didn't feel like what he did was scummy?

yeah b/c it was the fact that you came at me in a sleazy way and keep trying to make weaselly misrep arguments, this is largely independent of my read of dwlee where yours is conspiracy-brain shit that stop making sense in worlds where i am town

[Dragon of the West]

nevermind that i was the first one to engage dwlee and call him scum, my point is way less baking up dgb and ore that the way dwlee chose to engage and turn things into a pedantic argument about how not to play where he could make an "ideal" theoretical point about how "we shouldn't play it like mountainous" that glosses over what dgb is actually trying to say (we should emphasize dayplay and minimize decisions based on mechanical speculation, basic stuff). in the process he steers the conversation toward something non-game-advancing, that is, arguing about "well of course you should consider claims in a normal setup". and when i immediately jump him after that he responds not like someone who has genuine conviction in what he's arguing but cornered scum who doesn't know how to react

This doesn't read like someone who's unhappy at Dwlee for not following DGB's plan. It seems to be more about how it was shut down and the reaction Dwlee given. I'm not saying I agree, but let's not read a story here.
Peta can explain some thought process into this and why Dwlee is scum here.

yes that's about what i was getting at - bogging things down in some boring "correct" argument is how i'd expect scum to approach someone coming out with a wacky plan to start the day - it's an easy point to make and offers basically nothing. i hit him with my vote for it and didn't like the response.

nero of course is dead set on trying to misconstrue that i was arguing that no one should claim at all in accordance with dgb, which is not what i was trying to say and i don't think someone making an honest reading could get that (except T3, but he's a special case)

I can't see how Dwlee disagreeing about strategy can generate such a strong reaction from you that you feel a "correct" argument is bogging things down? Like even if it's slightly pedantic, aren't those the exact discussions that should help town align on a strategy? Especially when someone is suggesting a strategy for the group to follow on one of the first pages of the game. AND you go on to say that you don't necessarily agree with DGB's strategy....then what's your suggestion? ignore making any semblance of a plan rather than determine a path forward and work to make town's plan better? It's weird to not take a stance on DGB's early suggestion, but then scum read someone for openly saying they disagree with it.

[petapan]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one an d the last i quoted, so why the difference?

Sorry, inconsistencies don't matter.
Seriously though, you selectively quoted this to remove the context of someone asking why I think you might be scum which is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

okay uh i'll be honest

i did not see that this was intended as a reply to VFP because you did not quote it and there was a nero post between it and yours and i'm blitzing through the thread trying to catch up with what happened while i was at work

so point retracted

[Dwlee99]

Fair enough cause I didn't quote it. Thought I did.

[nomnomnom]

now kiss

[Dragon of the West]

Okay, thanks. And are those threads usually related to specific PRs or is it possible for vanilla roles to have access to PTs?

players in neighborhoods can be PRs or have no other powers - it used to be that neighbors were usually otherwise vanilla but PRs in hoods are more common now

real quick - you've been away from the site for a while, have you played mafia at all in the meantime? do you remember the games you played on this site at all?

\

I haven't played any mafia since I've been away from the site, but I've played deception-type games like Secret Hitler. And I don't remember anything meaningful from the couple games I did play (I think I only played 2). I think I remember getting targeted really early the game I was mafia and played it poorly.