Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Save The Dragons]

it's more about what shea did than what sigmund did.

This is kinda what I suspected, which makes me question the logic. If tsq is town then he'd interact the same way with Sigmund regardless of Sigmund's alignment (because he wouldn't know it). So if you think that scum-tsq wouldn't treat town-Sigmund that way, then wouldn't you want to kill tsq first?

i think if shea were town he would have called out sigmund and i at the same time

my gut read of sigmund is stronger than my gut read on shea

[Something_Smart]

i've repeated it like 4 times, and it's no ones fault for missing it, but it is a little bit annoying. thanks for replying though.

this was the first instance.

Sorry. What feels not-real about it? Scum can look ridiculous too.

[Chara]

i've been overextended so i'm probably off in all my games

but i do pride myself in playing a little differently each time

i get scumread a lot for it

so what's the difference between scum!STD and LHF!STD?

i don't know, what is the difference and how is one supposed to tell?

@shea - STD's play is in underwhelming/not town territory for me. i'm not going to vote there as long as Ircher is viable as i find him underwhelming/vaguely scummy in comparison. and no one has really responded about what i pointed out again in 2250 and i would really like some feedback on it, i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

besides that it feels to me like Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town. (this doesn't include the post where Ircher was asked to elaborate and did so, i'm referring to before that.)

and here's the most recent mention.

i wouldn't have brought it (that specific point, and Ircher being scum) up so many times but i am interested in some kind of reply even if it's just a disagreement.

[Thestatusquo]

I responded at the time that it doesn't make a lot of sense for STD to suspect me for that interaction. It seemed forced and a knee jerk defense. There are a couple of possibilities there but the two main ones are "I know sigmund is scum and I want to distance" and "I know STD is scum and don't want to talk about my buddy"

In terms of things scum actually do the latter is MUCH more common than the former and STD should obviously know its not true as either alignment. Accusing me of the first is kind of weird because it implies I need to make up things to attack my buddies for AND it implies that I would not attack another player who is town who I had previously been scum reading. If you think I'm scum there there's really no reason for me to just attack them both. It's just a surface level approach to the game and demonstrates a lack of real thought about what the things he's attacking people for mean.

Which is the same thing I'm seeing in this discussion about whether he's LHF. I would expect town!STD to draw conclusions from the discussion here and he's not showing any understanding of what the implications of him being attacked in the face of other LHF wagons are.

I'm not trying to BoP STD but he's been around a long time and I think that a town version would just display fundamentally more curiosity about what these things mean rather than just looking for things to push back against which seems to be what he's doing.

This was hell to type on a phone but its really important.

[Something_Smart]

i think if shea were town he would have called out sigmund and i at the same time

my gut read of sigmund is stronger than my gut read on shea

Do you think that scum-tsq calls out only Sigmund if Sigmund is town?

Sorry if it feels like I'm needling. I'm just trying to get an understanding of how you view these connections because I'm curious why you said "kill Shea if Sigmund flips scum" instead of "kill Shea regardless of Sigmund's flip".

[Chara]

i've repeated it like 4 times, and it's no ones fault for missing it, but it is a little bit annoying. thanks for replying though.

this was the first instance.

Sorry. What feels not-real about it? Scum can look ridiculous too.

they can, but say Ircher does get miselimmed and flip town, after notsci has been saying confidently he's scum, does that make notsci look ridiculous? from Ircher's pov here, scum notsci knows Ircher is flipping town, so i don't see where that "gotcha" bravado comes from.

so it looks more like false bravado to me.

[Thestatusquo]

i've been overextended so i'm probably off in all my games

but i do pride myself in playing a little differently each time

i get scumread a lot for it

so what's the difference between scum!STD and LHF!STD?

i don't know, what is the difference and how is one supposed to tell?

@shea - STD's play is in underwhelming/not town territory for me. i'm not going to vote there as long as Ircher is viable as i find him underwhelming/vaguely scummy in comparison. and no one has really responded about what i pointed out again in 2250 and i would really like some feedback on it, i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

besides that it feels to me like Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town. (this doesn't include the post where Ircher was asked to elaborate and did so, i'm referring to before that.)

and here's the most recent mention.

i wouldn't have brought it (that specific point, and Ircher being scum) up so many times but i am interested in some kind of reply even if it's just a disagreement.

I would happily vote ircher and I agree with your thoughts about that exchange but I think StD is caught scum here.

[Thestatusquo]

EBWODP: "If you think I'm scum there there's really no reason for me to just attack them both" should say "there's no reason for me NOT to just attack them both."

[Toogeloo]

I think I'm skeptical of PR in this setup as a defense for play (and in terms of claims) because it seems to me that the distribution of abilities is very spread around.

If I were to wager a guess, based on my own role and the sample role, everyone probably has one or more actions that qualify them as a PR, even if it"s a weak one.

[morph the cat]

This game is role madness. Unwnd has stated that several times prior to signups.

People didn't know this coming in?

[morph the cat]

Bingle is about the closest to vanilla this game is gonna get.

[Save The Dragons]

shea i have 4 different people asking me things, i'm overextended, i missed a couple pages of this game, and i'm busy at work i don't have time for deep diving atm

[Chara]

Ircher's content is also an important point here, those quote stripe walls feel largely like empty content, they don't tell me why notsci is a good vote when Ircher's responded to notsci's posts with the same energy as he's responded to every other post he doesn't agree with, and his concern with arguing against Toog townreads also bothers me. there's more reasoning about why Toog should be null than why notsci is scum.

[Thestatusquo]

I'd like chara and morph to talk about my 2312 and 2328

[Save The Dragons]

toog-just look at STD's iso
shea-don't want to talk about it

everyone-why haven't you defended yourself better

[Thestatusquo]

shea i have 4 different people asking me things, i'm overextended, i missed a couple pages of this game, and i'm busy at work i don't have time for deep diving atm

this is also a weird response because I didn't ask you anything? I'm just talking about things you've done this game? I'm sorry you're overextended but thats not going to stop me from pushing on you if I think you're scum?

[Something_Smart]

they can, but say Ircher does get miselimmed and flip town, after notsci has been saying confidently he's scum, does that make notsci look ridiculous?

I can see Ircher believing it.

It's very frustrating to get dismissed like that.

Do you know if Ircher would fake bravado like that as scum? My meta with him is pretty stale.

[Save The Dragons]

i think if shea were town he would have called out sigmund and i at the same time

my gut read of sigmund is stronger than my gut read on shea

Do you think that scum-tsq calls out only Sigmund if Sigmund is town?

Sorry if it feels like I'm needling. I'm just trying to get an understanding of how you view these connections because I'm curious why you said "kill Shea if Sigmund flips scum" instead of "kill Shea regardless of Sigmund's flip".

my thought is scum shea distanced his buddy then realized he could also shade me it doesn't feel genuine to me so i called it out. could town shea call out sigmund and then call me out? yes but it was weird that he waited for someone else to suggest theatre before he changed from "sigmund looks bad" to "both look bad" and i don't understand why people are having trouble understanding that.

[Toogeloo]

We need 13 votes to execute a player. We haven't even reached half that on a player yet. We'll likely want a claim before we commit to an execution. At what point are we going to start taking the elimination seriously?

Anyone here remember the last Booneytoonz where we ended up changing wagons like 3 times in a day, forcing all of them to claim (one was a scum), and then speed wagoned a town in like 30 minutes (hint, it was Flea)?

[Chara]

i think i gave you a hint there

More like you bashed me over the head with it

But yes, what Shea said, everyone is going to soft and hint because you can easily claim something useful if anyone ever calls your bluff. Same logic for why I still pushed Bingle.

it's fair to say this but doesn't change the fact i don't want to be wagoned for that reason

Do you think you're actually the LHF that scum would target? Seems to me there are wagons on other LHF that scum could easily get behind, so from your POV I would expect you to think a) that the people who are LHF that are being wagoned are more likely to be scum and b) the people attacking you are their buddies or more likely to be town.

I haven't really seen any evidence of either thought process from you which is my big problem with this line of argument from you.

i see what you're saying here, for me the explanation for why these ideas are missing from STD could be scum or it could be STD is disengaged/overextended as he's claimed, which is why i was trying to get him to talk about his reads. it doesn't seem like that's going to happen at this very moment, though.

[Thestatusquo]

because theres literally no incentive for scum!shea to not attack both. Like literally none.

[Save The Dragons]

shea i have 4 different people asking me things, i'm overextended, i missed a couple pages of this game, and i'm busy at work i don't have time for deep diving atm

this is also a weird response because I didn't ask you anything? I'm just talking about things you've done this game? I'm sorry you're overextended but thats not going to stop me from pushing on you if I think you're scum?

i feel like if you're town you've confbiased me as scum so it probably didn't matter what i said but i'm not sure this push is genuine

you seemed to ask why i didn't find other LHF as scum or why their attackers are buddies or town. i don't understand the logic there you'll have to ELI5 me

[Farkran]

Still like my notsci vote.

That’s not what I said at all

I’m saying the way you have phrased it sounds like you were making a comment while actually knowing the answer

Ninja
Bring it chuckles I eat scum like you for breakfast

You're going to look ridiculous when I flip.

what do you think of this sequence?

I think this is a town reaction from ircher, i had missed it

(Assuming the question was asked to me)

[Something_Smart]

In terms of things scum actually do the latter is MUCH more common than the former and STD should obviously know its not true as either alignment.

This feels kinda irrelevant. From STD's POV, the latter can't be true. All that he cares about is the relative chance of the former vs. you calling only Sigmund out as town.

I can understand the chain of reasoning from "I can't see any reason why Shea wouldn't call us both out" -> "it might be for an alignment indicative reason" -> "if it is, then Sigmund is scum and he wanted to distance, because I know I'm not scum".

[Something_Smart]

my thought is scum shea distanced his buddy then realized he could also shade me it doesn't feel genuine to me so i called it out.

This part makes sense, though it's not exactly what I asked about. If tsq is scum and you and Sigmund are both town, do you think he does that?