Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[KorVex]

ok, wiki actually gives conflicting information.

@mod will a strongman targeting a hider who is hiding kill them, or does the kill fail?

better phrasing:
if player a is hider, and they hide behind player c, and player b strongman kills player a, does player a die?
~vv

[Not_Mafia]

Strongman breaks through protective roles, it doesn't work on roles that evade being targetted

[DrippingGoofball]

I do like Hiders. I was hider once, hit scum on Day 3, and my crumbs were so good I confirmed two townies.

[Not_Mafia]

In fact, let's give town negative utility roles

[KorVex]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

Mountainous?

mountainous is scumsided unless we get to like 17v3 or something
i know 11v2 is like a 39% winrate for town

~vv

[DrippingGoofball]

As tree stump, I can run the scumputer ALL GAME LONG!!!!!

DGB+N_M 4 stumpz

This would be an epic team.

[House]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

Mountainous?

mountainous is scumsided unless we get to like 17v3 or something
i know 11v2 is like a 39% winrate for town

~vv

This game can't be true mountainous by virtue of the 2 stumps anyway, so those stats aren't exactly relevant.

[House]

Also, the game would stop being mountainous for town with 1 stump blowing out, so there's that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

I'd definitely be down to play a near-vanilla game, I was in TM2018's white flag

[Gamma Emerald]

Alternative, we make town very low powered so scum becomes low powered

Mountainous?

mountainous is scumsided unless we get to like 17v3 or something
i know 11v2 is like a 39% winrate for town

~vv

that doesn't account for the stumps

[House]

I wonder if Bus Driver resolves before or after Hider.

That could be annoying, too.

[House]

What do we think of mass target/results claims for roles with useful info in case a pr is killed before they can out publicly?

[House]

(ie, Everyone posting "my (role) result is..." whether they are that role or not)

[Gamma Emerald]

maybe??? on my homesite hypo cop is often suggested but rarely utilized
...mostly because it's in a phase where flips aren't complete, iirc, because of fears of flavor breaking games which are being handled the absolute wrong way

[Titus]

I want to run the VCA next to the scumputer. Please don't deny me this.

[Gamma Emerald]

but you already opted out of being a stump /j

[House]

Stupid question... is "scumputer" an actual thing?

Followup: if it is... what exactly is it?

[northsidegal]

No one's actually trying because they might roll scum.

you're more likely to roll town than scum, so it seems to make more sense to elect a stump that would help you more as town than to not try that because you might roll scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Stupid question... is "scumputer" an actual thing?

Followup: if it is... what exactly is it?

yeah, it's real, but I think DGB should explain it rather than me

also, the one person who I'd 100% never want to be a stump if I'm scum turned out to be a total scumbag and got banned!

[northsidegal]

I still think vigilante mason is really powerful, because it removes the aspect of a vigilante shot being on town, because now you have *two* people thinking about it, on top of the treestumps knowing about the vigilante shot, and able to direct it accordingly

i'm not really convinced that just having two people to discuss a vig shot really "removes" the aspect of shots being on town. i also think that, in general, directing vig shots or making public votes on them is less effective than simply leaving it up to the vigilante—mith was the one who first introduced me to this logic.

ok, wiki actually gives conflicting information.

@mod will a strongman targeting a hider who is hiding kill them, or does the kill fail?

this is just a personal curiosity—where do you see conflicting information on the wiki? my understanding—and what i would tell to anyone making a normal setup—would be that a strongman would be able to kill a hider, the kill wouldn't fail.

[KorVex]

@nsg

It is, however, trumped by roles that prevent the victim from being targeted at all, namely Commuter and Hider.

A Strongman cannot be stopped from performing a kill, unless their target has commuted

it links specifically to commuter as well in the second quote on the wiki, and doesn't say "unless their target has commuted or hides" or something to that effect

[northsidegal]

i don't think trying to go "low-powered" is a very good idea. mountainous itself is really bad for town in-practice (regardless of the calculated EV), but more relevant is the fact that town gets a

lot

more out of power roles than scum do – it's sort of a natural element of skew in favor of town that exists in normal games. even the best scum roles really can either only block town roles or gain information about them and these aren't really that high-value for scum, but the best town roles can reveal people's alignments and even kill scum, which are super high value.

we definitely should be adding a high-power role to the setup even if scum get balanced to be more powerful because of it – town benefits a lot more from power roles than scum do anyways.

[KorVex]

the first quote directly states that commuter/hider prevents strongman from killing, whereas second quote implies that only commuter stops strongman.
~vv

[House]

this is just a personal curiosity—where do you see conflicting information on the wiki?

It depends on whether the Hider is being treated as bulletproof or commuted.

The flavor of the role suggests commuted (they're hiding, so they're away from home), but it's apparently treated by some as simple bp.

[northsidegal]

@nsg

It is, however, trumped by roles that prevent the victim from being targeted at all, namely Commuter and Hider.

A Strongman cannot be stopped from performing a kill, unless their target has commuted

it links specifically to commuter as well in the second quote on the wiki, and doesn't say "unless their target has commuted or hides" or something to that effect

i think that might be a remnant of how hiders work in some open setups. in normal games, strongmen are only stopped by commuters, as said under the "normal guidelines" section. it is a bit confusing to have it say something different in the lede than in the normal guidelines section, so i might change it a bit.