Yggdrasil - Stratum FINAL -

[Chara]

I'm not really trying to convince you that Fae is scum tho. You're too low in my town reads for me to be interested in getting your vote.

you should want my vote regardless if you want your scumreads eliminated, generally speaking.

[Something_Smart]

Do you really think his attitude is his personality and not just a performance?

Well, maybe it's an alt shtick. But I don't think he would necessarily be more conciliatory as scum.

[Chara]

not Chara's vote specifically, but... votes. you should want votes.

[Chara]

2573 is actually kind of baffling. i mean, i get that if scumreads all follow you onto your big scumread you're going to maybe start worrying if that scumread is accurate, but if the goal is to elim a scumread, a vote from town and a vote from scum are still going to equal 1 more to elimination.

[Bell]

I don't really think you can convince scum to vote for your scum reads without appealing to their win condition. I don't want Flea to be voted if they're town.

[Something_Smart]

Do you really think his attitude is his personality and not just a performance?

Well, maybe it's an alt shtick. But I don't think he would necessarily be more conciliatory as scum.

Also, on the flip side, it's entirely possible for him to hide behind the persona as scum.

As best I can tell he's still voting Flea because of the TMI allegation.

[Bell]

not Chara's vote specifically, but... votes. you should want votes.

I am pushing for votes on Flea over Sigmund in general, yes.

[White Fire]

U should want Chara vote the most. Chara vote is the most potent of all votes

[Bell]

Do you really think his attitude is his personality and not just a performance?

Well, maybe it's an alt shtick. But I don't think he would necessarily be more conciliatory as scum.

Also, on the flip side, it's entirely possible for him to hide behind the persona as scum.

As best I can tell he's still voting Flea because of the TMI allegation.

I'm aware and its crossed my mind more than once this game. But I can't tell.

Shouldn't they be voting Guilotina for the TMI allegation?

[White Fire]

Chara if i were to sell my vote to u. Who would u have me vote?

[Bell]

U should want Chara vote the most. Chara vote is the most potent of all votes

I'm not attacking their self-esteem.

[Chara]

I don't really think you can convince scum to vote for your scum reads without appealing to their win condition. I don't want Flea to be voted if they're town.

sure, but... idk, only caring if your high townreads vote your scumread seems kind of backwards to me when you realistically are going to need lower town/nulls votes too, and scumreads who you may be wrong on, since the number to elim is something like 13, but... i still think you're town and this doesn't even seem like an AI topic so i guess i should leave it alone?

[Ircher]

Bell is NAI posting but it's a good push because of 344 suggesting he is not going to go back and interact with any content from the first ~10 pages

I looked at that post again, and I didn't get that impression. What about 344 makes you think Bell isn't going to interact with the last ten pages (from this post)? It strikes me more as a "I glanced at the current page, so here's a relevant comment," post which is in and of itself rather null.

271 from Fark felt genuine to me

I agree it feels genuine, but I think an underlying implication here is that you town read Farkran for that (even if not strongly), and I don't agree with that implication. I think it is a natural confusion to have, and thus, scum would have no reason to be less surprised by it than town.

You can't townread someone who's insane

??? This seems a bit out of context. Whom are you referring to here?

Feels like the sort of thing you'd put in a scum pt if you had one

Maybe, but I think it is still just as likely scum post that in the main thread.

kind of weird to look at a post that murdercat wasn't going to make but was prompted to make and think "yeah, this is the one i'm going to try and pick apart for something nitpicky to push."

Why is that weird? I think it's pretty natural people are going to break down the post with the most content in it. That post would happen to be it. Just because it was prompted by others shouldn't mean it should be of poor quality.

I called it TMI and Titus disagreed with a scumread in return.

Was I wrong?

I am pretty sure I mentioned this before, but I'll just say it again because I think it's worthwhile: yes, you're wrong in that post wasn't TMI. Certain games can give off that aura of grandness, so it is equally a reasonable statement as it is from town. It's not really a slip anyway since most good setups have the interesting mechanics being public knowledge. I do think Titus was a bit too quick to jump on you for it though.

But Flea seems fine?

(I actually find Flea to be rather unreadable most of the time. I will have to compare fae to the last two games I've seen of Fae, namely Maruchan's Grand Idea and my Grand Idea UPick game.) I don't think I've seen anything that's really a red flag from Flea yet, so I overall agree with this assessment.

Sigmund could be a role that knows everyone else's roles. He could have a lot of esteem for the setting, the writing, or the mod.
Or he could be scum with TMI, it's hard to know.

I do think you can eliminate some of these possibilities even without knowing the context.

How is that possible? or balanced? Or both? I mean, have you seen something like that?

It was used in team mafia, wasn't it? I agree it'd be a strong role, but it's not really game breaking. The main benefits of such a role is 1) fake claims and 2) knowing what to use other abilities for. Granted, for a large theme game, I think it would be a bit unusual to see.

Read to bottom of page 20. Yes, my pace has alas remained slow. Assuming I don't get faded, I will likely get a few pages in during the upcoming night phase, and hopefully that will go a long ways towards being caught up. It's actually hard to be motivated to catch up tbh. (Night will also be good for me to consolidate on reads.)
---

I know Ircher to be a pretty quiet and timid player (at least in my experience). That's an unusual amount of bravado for him.

Eh, I would say I've been emboldened lately. Idk why; I've just been in that kind of mood. (I would hazard the guess that I find it more effective than other approaches I've used.)

i think it's strange to both think a player is scum and to make the post "you're going to look ridiculous when i flip town".

And I disagree. You could argue scum!me is just as likely to make that sort of post, sure, but to suggest that town!me never makes that post towards a scum read is not a reasonable stance.

Ircher is trying to put out content, but the content itself is irrelevant to sorting or finding scum this game day. example being the amount of time spent arguing about why Toog is null and not town.

Believe it or not, my focus right now is not on reads. My focus is finding things that catch my eye/are worth evaluating and commenting on them. The reads occur later, after I've made my observations and determined the overall feel. (That's not to say I don't have reads, but most are pretty insubstantial at this time.)

Ircher does get miselimmed and flip town, after notsci has been saying confidently he's scum, does that make notsci look ridiculous?

Yes, it can. Granted, it rarely happens in practice (the dead are mostly ignored), but it does happen. I see the point you are trying to make, namely that scum!notsci already knows my alignment; thus, he already would know he is "wrong". The thing is, it's not his perspective that matters with regards to the statement; rather, it is others' perception of him that I would expect to change after he hardpushes a misfade on me. I think the other aspect of this that you're getting at is that in some ways, there is a perceived hidden implication that I town read notscience. This is not the contradiction it may seem as the statement is also in some ways a wakeup call; namely, I'm implying that if notscience is town, they need to reevaluate. Rarely are reads set in stone, and I am of the opinion that regardless of how much I scum read a player (aside from a confirmed guilty), it is still worthwhile to try to engage them in the off chance my read is wrong, and they are actually town.

there's more reasoning about why Toog should be null than why notsci is scum.

This is to some extent being purposely done; particularly, I'm not going to elaborate on my notscience read at this time.

i think it'd be cool if everyone who hasn't given a read on Sigmund, STD, Ircher, Flea, does so.

Sigmund - From what I've read, he seems mostly all bark but rather lacking in notable things. That is, he is very aggressive in his responses, but at the same time, he isn't saying stuff of substance. It's not a great look, but I'm weary of giving a scum read because it strikes me as a play style thing.

Save the Dragons - Really feels fluffy. Not much more that I can say than that.

Flea The Magician - I mentioned this above, but I find Flea to be generally unreadable for me. Idk, faer style just doesn't mesh with the ways I get reads I guess. Solid null rn.

Probably go with Save the Dragons > Sigmund > Flea in order of willingness to fade.

I have big doubts on ircher flipping scum but I am willing to vote there because I want to be right really bad

I'm sorry, what was that?

[Chara]

U should want Chara vote the most. Chara vote is the most potent of all votes

I'm not attacking their self-esteem.

i didn't think you were, and i don't know what this has to do with Fire's post. i'm not like, upset, it's just not a perspective i've seen before.

Fire: i believe you know who i'd want you to vote!

[Chara]

oh it's an Ircher!

[Bell]

I don't really think you can convince scum to vote for your scum reads without appealing to their win condition. I don't want Flea to be voted if they're town.

sure, but... idk, only caring if your high townreads vote your scumread seems kind of backwards to me when you realistically are going to need lower town/nulls votes too, and scumreads who you may be wrong on, since the number to elim is something like 13, but... i still think you're town and this doesn't even seem like an AI topic so i guess i should leave it alone?

Sure and yes, I get your point. You implied I wanted your vote in particular. I was pointing out, that, no, not really. That's all. It is generally one of those topics of opinion and conversation that goes round and round and isn't AI, so I wouldn't mind dropping it, but I don't hate the topic either.

[White Fire]

Fire: i believe you know who i'd want you to vote!

okay but are u willing to buy it

[Something_Smart]

i still think you're town and this doesn't even seem like an AI topic so i guess i should leave it alone?

ya this feels like a very unproductive line of discussion at a potentially critical time

[morph the cat]

We're not going to vote Sigmund.

I'm not enthusiastic about Math or Ircher. Also not enthusiastic about the Dragon.

Haven't looked at Anya's body of work in the last 24 hours. Will go back through that again.

[Chara]

oh goddamn it. Ircher's just like that.

[Something_Smart]

We're not going to vote Sigmund.

What's your read on him?

[Chara]

handshake to Bell too, good talk. i also don't mind talking about it but there's other stuff to discuss.

i guess i'm wagon shopping again. Ircher's thoroughly nulled himself. no i'm not happy about it, but also thanks Ircher for the responses as i doubt i would have let go without them.

i don't think i can vote STD currently after all of that stuff earlier today but i might feel differently tomorrow.

[morph the cat]

We're not going to vote Sigmund.

What's your read on him?

Well north of null.

[morph the cat]

@Bell

who is dante?

[Guillotina]

@guilotina, ya for the most part I do.
I could see morph and Shea being scum though.

Morph because Cabd.
Shea because I am a little bit skeptical in how they present themselves.

Tell me about Scum!Cabd, I only know their town game from Xenoblade where they whooped our ass like there was no tomorrow. Any notable differences?