Newbie 2064 - (GG)

[JamesTheNames]

Can we expect more input from you orctin? 38 and 374 give contradicting statements as to how you play, it would be nice for a clarification which one is true.
I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

For anyone wondering the test did not go well, but I just need 1.4% or higher to pass this year.

I'm not seeing what you calling contradicting - in both cases and as i keep say i prefer to allow discussion before voting instead of just voting to push the issue. It to me is the logical course of action in a game.

As far as your question on the JV/Dum thing - I keep an open mind and trying not to form hard opinion - but see things from other angles to help see what i might miss, which is why i noted that seeing your reference to the Pairing caught my attention as something i might of missed and was worth noting. This format of play is still new to me as i'm more used to a "role madness" game where everyone gets some type of info/action - the whole speculate to speculate is out of my wheelhouse.

In post 38:
"I am not an aggressive player, i prefer to watch more"
In post 374:
"You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first"

Orc I think its you and Ninja.

[JamesTheNames]

Can we expect more input from you orctin? 38 and 374 give contradicting statements as to how you play, it would be nice for a clarification which one is true.
I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

For anyone wondering the test did not go well, but I just need 1.4% or higher to pass this year.

I'm not seeing what you calling contradicting - in both cases and as i keep say i prefer to allow discussion before voting instead of just voting to push the issue. It to me is the logical course of action in a game.

As far as your question on the JV/Dum thing - I keep an open mind and trying not to form hard opinion - but see things from other angles to help see what i might miss, which is why i noted that seeing your reference to the Pairing caught my attention as something i might of missed and was worth noting. This format of play is still new to me as i'm more used to a "role madness" game where everyone gets some type of info/action - the whole speculate to speculate is out of my wheelhouse.

In post 38:
"I am not an aggressive player, i prefer to watch more"
In post 374:
"You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first"

Orc I think its you and Ninja.

Need to amend this, its either 2 of the 3 of Dum Ninja and Orc. Or 1 and another.

[Cabd]

Catboi replaces JacksonVirgo

[catboi]

Hey all! (o´ω`o)ﾉ

I've read about half of the game already when I was waiting on confirmation of getting the slot, have some preliminary reads but want to catch up all the way before I get into everything. I do have some commentary I want to make on recent posts, though.

[catboi]

I don't understand the sudden switch from nobody believing me regarding a JacksonVirgo/Dum pair in day 1, then all of a sudden, Ninja and Orctin both going with it.

Join me in the JacksonVirgo wagon

First of all, why were you so eager to push an elimination on an inactive slot that can't defend itself?

[catboi]

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

Dum - I've been leary about Dum since game started - the whole Hammer trap he tried to play was just a bad play, and moreso when i had clearly made my position known before then and it was obvious there was no trap as the votes had been posted - this was a weak attempt to make me appear as if i was just trying to do something that i had already shown not to do - end day early.

HEM - aggressive player, just goes right out after people, attacking and going after reads which seem to be singular minded but strong played in your positions. If i were to look for scum tells here i would have to put HEM and James together in a pairing where they counter each other at points to keep the unpaired appearance. I would think the quick Voting HEM does is also bad, as could be a scum tell to be the early person on a vote, see if it hold ground by trying to get others to go along with it and so as to not appear as a late comer to the train.

James - for the most part i read as town, I like his questioning nature to look at things first to form an opinion. I haven't seen a pairing yet with him but that would basically make him a good pairing with myself if i were looking at scum read pair from outside the looking glass.

Nav/Ninja - Nav - i think here's a high likelyhood of pushing the scum look on a player gameplay, that again i was biased to as i played with before (JV), to push him to that breaking point some people have. Nav is playing the excellent townie role, and have most people believing he's town, which if most people think one thing it's the job of the last person to ask if it's true, i wonder if there is perhaps a great scum player lurking here. Ninja - This the Ying to Nav's Yang - Ninja is thoughtful - looking at Both HEM and JV and trying to read between the lines of the two of them looking for those clues others might of missed. But overall i think Nav/Ninja seem to both fit in the same mold here. I would think if JV flips Town - one of the two of them is scum.

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

[NinjaStore]

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

Dum - I've been leary about Dum since game started - the whole Hammer trap he tried to play was just a bad play, and moreso when i had clearly made my position known before then and it was obvious there was no trap as the votes had been posted - this was a weak attempt to make me appear as if i was just trying to do something that i had already shown not to do - end day early.

HEM - aggressive player, just goes right out after people, attacking and going after reads which seem to be singular minded but strong played in your positions.

If i were to look for scum tells here i would have to put HEM and James together in a pairing where they counter each other at points to keep the unpaired appearance.

I would think the quick Voting HEM does is also bad, as could be a scum tell to be the early person on a vote, see if it hold ground by trying to get others to go along with it and so as to not appear as a late comer to the train.

James - for the most part i read as town, I like his questioning nature to look at things first to form an opinion.

I haven't seen a pairing yet with him

but that would basically make him a good pairing with myself if i were looking at scum read pair from outside the looking glass.

Nav/Ninja - Nav - i think here's a high likelyhood of pushing the scum look on a player gameplay, that again i was biased to as i played with before (JV), to push him to that breaking point some people have. Nav is playing the excellent townie role, and have most people believing he's town, which if most people think one thing it's the job of the last person to ask if it's true, i wonder if there is perhaps a great scum player lurking here. Ninja - This the Ying to Nav's Yang - Ninja is thoughtful - looking at Both HEM and JV and trying to read between the lines of the two of them looking for those clues others might of missed. But overall i think Nav/Ninja seem to both fit in the same mold here. I would think if JV flips Town - one of the two of them is scum.

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

That part?

[orctin]

In post 38:
"I am not an aggressive player, i prefer to watch more"
In post 374:
"You can see that i tend to put pressure on someone first"

Same logic as i been pointing out - I tend to offer discussion first then voting - lot of people tend to vote first then discuss - Putting pressure in discussion isn't aggression - slapping quick votes for force discussion to me is aggressive - there's a difference

And thanks Cat and Ninja - didn't even realize - I'm not keeping a note sheet or anything - just playing off day to day chat and game, and trying to add some pairing thoughts to expand reads more than just one player - so i'm not sitting there over analyzing what i post - i just type and post what flows from fingers to keyboard

[NinjaStore]

And thanks Cat and Ninja - didn't even realize - I'm not keeping a note sheet or anything - just playing off day to day chat and game, and trying to add some pairing thoughts to expand reads more than just one player - so i'm not sitting there over analyzing what i post - i just type and post what flows from fingers to keyboard

That doesn't explain very well having a pairing for James one moment and then not having it the next. If you had been keeping notes on each player and pasted them into the same post, I could see accidentally posting outdated information. But you say you're posting more free-flowing thoughts. That's awfully quick to forget what you were just writing earlier in the same post.

[orctin]

That's cause there's 2 ways to look at things - first was from a HEM View - and if HEM was scum - then who would i put with him - James fit that line of thought because of their counterpoints. When i came to James i Look from another angle, If i was to read James as scum, I think honestly a much wider scope of who's with him because his place is different,

So your looking at two angles - one from the Hem angle - who to pair with him - the other from the James angle - and who would pair with him. I dont read them the same way but view it as two totally different situation so you cant just automatically put one with the other in looking both ways

[catboi]

Jackson - at this point i'm looking at changing my opinion of him - I played game with him prior to this so had bit of bias to liking the player - but the frustration tactic day 1 to back off the attacks on themselves then the looking to opt out make me think we have a scum who basically have given up defending themselves now

Dum - I've been leary about Dum since game started - the whole Hammer trap he tried to play was just a bad play, and moreso when i had clearly made my position known before then and it was obvious there was no trap as the votes had been posted - this was a weak attempt to make me appear as if i was just trying to do something that i had already shown not to do - end day early.

HEM - aggressive player, just goes right out after people, attacking and going after reads which seem to be singular minded but strong played in your positions.

If i were to look for scum tells here i would have to put HEM and James together in a pairing where they counter each other at points to keep the unpaired appearance.

I would think the quick Voting HEM does is also bad, as could be a scum tell to be the early person on a vote, see if it hold ground by trying to get others to go along with it and so as to not appear as a late comer to the train.

James - for the most part i read as town, I like his questioning nature to look at things first to form an opinion.

I haven't seen a pairing yet with him

but that would basically make him a good pairing with myself if i were looking at scum read pair from outside the looking glass.

Nav/Ninja - Nav - i think here's a high likelyhood of pushing the scum look on a player gameplay, that again i was biased to as i played with before (JV), to push him to that breaking point some people have. Nav is playing the excellent townie role, and have most people believing he's town, which if most people think one thing it's the job of the last person to ask if it's true, i wonder if there is perhaps a great scum player lurking here. Ninja - This the Ying to Nav's Yang - Ninja is thoughtful - looking at Both HEM and JV and trying to read between the lines of the two of them looking for those clues others might of missed. But overall i think Nav/Ninja seem to both fit in the same mold here. I would think if JV flips Town - one of the two of them is scum.

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

That part?

That is actually not what I was thinking of, but that's an extremely good catch. Major points for being observant.

[catboi]

That's cause there's 2 ways to look at things - first was from a HEM View - and if HEM was scum - then who would i put with him - James fit that line of thought because of their counterpoints. When i came to James i Look from another angle, If i was to read James as scum, I think honestly a much wider scope of who's with him because his place is different,

So your looking at two angles - one from the Hem angle - who to pair with him - the other from the James angle - and who would pair with him. I dont read them the same way but view it as two totally different situation so you cant just automatically put one with the other in looking both ways

This is gibberish. How is it you could see person A being teamed with person B if they are scum, but if you think of person B as scum you don't see person A as a partner?

Additionally, this is contradicting what you said in your reads list - in there you said you had a hard time seeing a partner for James, but here you're suddenly saying there's a much wider scope of people who could be scum with James?

[orctin]

Wow, so one dimensional. It quite simple really - If HEM was scum then i read James as a likely partner cause how they play offer each other and James isn't town.
If James is scum - i don't automatically associate HEM as his scum partner - I think there is a much broader range of people i would look to as a partner in a James scum read, and in that instance i'm looking at HEM as town, so i'm looking at other possible partners that fit James.

With 2 scum your looking at things from 2 angles - not just a single angle else you get stuck in only 1 train of thought and become blind to other possibilities. Just because i might lean to a pairing in one direction doesn't mean if flipped i think the same pairing has to hold true. Town sound never become 1 dimensional but look at all the sides.

But Cat i look enjoy how your suddenly creating a target to draw away the attention your former self JV had on him trying to push to someone else - it's a solid play on your part. I'm sorry to say it doesn't clear the issue others had of looking at a JV elimination. Perhaps you might help the others understand better why is is your not scum. I had read JV myself as town for most of Day 1 - it's more what others have pointed out that have cause me to second guess that original thought. Again, trying to look at things from different angles.

[catboi]

I am through page 16 but it's getting late and I'm tired, should catch up fully during the day tomorrow. Decently readable game, which is nice - the last few newbies I've played I really struggled for reads but I'm not having that problem here.

[catboi]

But Cat i look enjoy how your suddenly creating a target to draw away the attention your former self JV had on him trying to push to someone else - it's a solid play on your part. I'm sorry to say it doesn't clear the issue others had of looking at a JV elimination. Perhaps you might help the others understand better why is is your not scum. I had read JV myself as town for most of Day 1 - it's more what others have pointed out that have cause me to second guess that original thought. Again, trying to look at things from different angles.

What distinguishes "trying to create a target" versus trying to look for scum? The way you're describing it,

any

attack on someone else on my part is survivalistic in nature, which is complete nonsense - it's using the idea that people were suspicious of JV to preemptively discredit me. I'm simply calling attention to a list I found to be extremely suspect.
Further, if my goal were to survive by pushing someone else, do you think I'd call you in particular out when there were plenty of people who seem to be under more suspicion? The idea doesn't track. I haven't even fully explained my reads yet but I'm sensing an over-defensiveness to this mindset.

How, exactly, do you expect me to "help others understand why I'm not scum"? I am not JacksonVirgo, I have read almost none of their posts, I can't defend their actions and frankly I do not care why people were scumreading them. I have done almost nothing in the game so it's not like I can defend myself in any regard. But that's not important to me. What's important is reading through the game and finding who's scum, and trying to communicate that to the other players. The idea that my first move should be defending myself when I have no means of doing so is completely backwards. I'm going to scumhunt, I'm going to tell people my reads, and then after all I'm going to try to persuade them to see my viewpoint - getting my reads out is ultimately way more important than survival.

[humaneatingmonkey]

First of all, why were you so eager to push an elimination on an inactive slot that can't defend itself?

i want you to replace into a slot that already has pressure on it

[humaneatingmonkey]

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

IIoA

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm down for an orctin wagon

[JamesTheNames]

I'm down for an orctin wagon

Agreed

[JamesTheNames]

Wow, so one dimensional. It quite simple really

I feel like this contradicts how Orctin says he plays. I think he's flaking under pressure.

[catboi]

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

IIoA

This isn't quite what I was getting at, but it's a significant problem I had with a lot of his earlier posts and was fairly surprised to not see mention of it from anyone.

What bothered me the most is that he's seemingly leaving himself open to vote almost anyone - 5/6 of the reads are explanations for why someone

could

be scum, and only James makes it out as a townread. I'm a super paranoid player, but that just doesn't strike me as believable. It doesn't feel like the process of someone trying to narrow the game into who is/is not scum, but rather someone who wants to be able to justify a vote on anyone if that's the way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is extremely scummy to me, and fits with a general trend where orctin doesn't really appear to scumhunting but instead just makes himself open to vote the popular target at the moment, as happened with micc and fizz raab.

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay catboi. i like where you're getting at. VOTE: orctin

[orctin]

Second, can anyone else tell me the huge, glaring problem with this reads list?

IIoA

This isn't quite what I was getting at, but it's a significant problem I had with a lot of his earlier posts and was fairly surprised to not see mention of it from anyone.

What bothered me the most is that he's seemingly leaving himself open to vote almost anyone - 5/6 of the reads are explanations for why someone

could

be scum, and only James makes it out as a townread. I'm a super paranoid player, but that just doesn't strike me as believable. It doesn't feel like the process of someone trying to narrow the game into who is/is not scum, but rather someone who wants to be able to justify a vote on anyone if that's the way the wind is blowing. The whole thing is extremely scummy to me, and fits with a general trend where orctin doesn't really appear to scumhunting but instead just makes himself open to vote the popular target at the moment, as happened with micc and fizz raab.

Seriously - Are you overlooking the fact that if i had wanted to i would of hammered Micc back on post 64 and been done with him. But i preferred to allow him the chance to defend himself - it was only after he had time to post and talk that i decided he didn't give me cause to not believe him so i voted for him. I made my intentions perfectly clear. Then had to listen to the silly Dum trap post scam as if someone couldn't keep up with the voting and see what's going on.

It was after the Dum scheme that the attack on JV started up. So if you want to look for a scum pair - i suggest you start there. The original intent of their play was to push on me then thru Dum but somehow JV became the target afterward and it ballooned from there is what i seen. Fizz had poor defense of himself, it was general town consensus to eliminate him, I agree with town. Yes it was a bad vote but that's not on myself there.

[catboi]

okay catboi. i like where you're getting at. VOTE: orctin

BTW, do you mind explaining why you townread orctin initially in 77?

[humaneatingmonkey]

#64 seems like an earnest attempt to make sense of the game at RVS and this one:

This is total setup for me to hammer Micc - he's at E-1 i believe. At the moment he is high on my scum list but ending day early is generally a bad play. I'd rather allow him a chance to post before a hammer vote goes down

I haven't been paying attention to him but when I did today, I'm not impressed. Especially with the "I've been playing this game for years" and this is all that he could give us.