Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Prism]

It is frustrating to contend with a false but NAI belief of yours in referring to town-driven pushes (plural). Stop for a second and get it straight, and if you are town chew on the ideas I am presenting along with who flagged these misconceptions and issues for you to begin with.

[Hectic]

I don't really understand the point you're making

You scumread me in Scumsman as scum = I townread you
You scumread me in Folly as town = I townread you

I don't think that dissuades you from pushing me again given Folly happened after. I'm not saying this a standard go-to strat of yours, but it's certainly possible scum!you sees it as a valuable investment given past history

If you're saying you wouldn't bring this to my attention as scum, you clearly did with the impression it means you're less likely to do it, and see it as something that helps your case

[Prism]

The last line of 226 reads as desperate and I'm inclined to gladiate this, but I have a very bad tendency of keeping things going. Crying about context and not appreciating exactly how I am using the the difference -even if my conclusion is hypothetically wrong-also reads poorly.

I will take the time and consolidate my issues/stance in a single post if I still feel this way in a few hours.

[Hectic]

lol what, I don't feel desperate at all, I'm trying to be as articulate as possible

Yes, sure, I acknowledge that you're 2/3 on reading me, since Scumsman is clouding my view. I don't think it changes my point or read

[Hectic]

A) There hasn't been enough time in the game for progressions to happen

Right, so the bar in 194 is garbage.

B) Chara's Folly happened after Flying Scumsman, I hard townread you there as you pushed me. That's an indication I'll continue to do it despite that scumblip in Scumsman. I think that would encourage you more than discourage on such a tactic

I literally had to draw your attention to the fact that Folly was the only game I did this and that I was scum in Scumsman. I was the one that drew your attention to both of these games and that the trend you gave for Prism-town was incorrect.

I was the one that went back and found the context, and split the hairs over it preemptively with my analysis of it, only to have you essentially go "Well it's different so none of it matters why read into it"

This attention allocating thing is what made me think that might be the point you're making, that you wouldn't draw my attention to it as scum, that's my I addressed it just in case

[Hectic]

I think I scumlean Prism, but wouldn't bet my life on it

[Prism]

It is safe to return to 159 unless you want to continue using "I thought the different BoI context points towards Hectic-scum" and "I think the difference points to it not mattering" as a primary point of contention for my read rather than as something extremely secondary. I will gladly concede speculation that I am scumreading you as in instrument to be townread.

[Hectic]

Sigh, the difference doesn't mean it shouldn't matter, it means it should matter less and affect your initial take of "very scummy", rather than how you handled it which is not have it impact your take whatsoever

I have no idea what you mean by the last line. You admit you're scumreading me as an instrument to be townread?

[Prism]

It means that I am not able to defend myself from it other than by returning to the legitimacy of the read itself and mentioning that it would be a Scumsman recycle.

[Hectic]

Strange that you say "I am scumreading you" rather than "I would be scumreading you"

Scumslip??×?@,#£¥×*÷

Sadly probably nai, scumslips like that are a myth for the most part but a man can dream. I think I'm all 1v1ed out for today, we can continue our dance another time

[Prism]

After 11 years you stop caring about emphasizing the fact you are town and feel secure enough leaving it an open question when discussing the arguments of others.

[Child of Fairies]

I can't help but get a feeling of superficiality from this 1v1. There's a sort of "going through the motions" aspect to it in a few posts that makes it feel odd to me. 231 and 233 in particular read to me like posts that are trying to say little while looking like they're saying more.

[Prism]

They are both direct answers to Hectic. 231 is a quick and concise recenter given the confusion of 229 and 233 is a direct answer to 232.

What parts are trying to say more, exactly?

[Child of Fairies]

They are both direct answers to Hectic. 231 is a quick and concise recenter given the confusion of 229 and 233 is a direct answer to 232.

What parts are trying to say more, exactly?

It means that I am not able to defend myself from it other than by returning to the legitimacy of the read itself and mentioning that it would be a Scumsman recycle.

This reads to me "I can't defend myself because this has happened before", which is a very odd thing to say imo. Something like this doesn't really amount to anything but the language you use makes it look like there's more to it than there actually is.

It is safe to return to 159 unless you want to continue using "I thought the different BoI context points towards Hectic-scum" and "I think the difference points to it not mattering" as a primary point of contention for my read rather than as something extremely secondary. I will gladly concede speculation that I am scumreading you as in instrument to be townread.

The last line of this bothers me. It makes it seem like you don't truly believe what you're saying and are just trying to appear like you're doing something. On the other hand, no scum would ever make an apparent slip-up like this, but that's very much going into wifom territory so I'd like you to elaborate a bit more, please.

[Infinity 324]

The last line of that sentence doesn't seem like a slip to me, I read it as "I'm ok with you speculating that I could be scumreading you in order to get townread"

I agree that some of the ways that prism is approaching this feel a bit performative, but I'm also struggling to articulate it.

[Prism]

The premise Hectic is relying on is that my read is faked, the way to respond to this is to return to the read and prove it legitimate, or provide a reason I would not fake it in the first place. I have provided both, and Hectic rejects my point for the second and there is no more to discuss on that front. This only leaves returning to my original read.

Saying "No you're wrong I'm town so my read isn't fake!" is pointless.

[Lukewarm]

@hectic, what part of this makes you scumlean Prism.

She very quickly put herself into a strong 1v1 with you, and I am not sure why scum!prism would have shown up and chosen violence against you this early.

I have not looked at any of the other games you have mentioned, but did their scum read of you in those other games come out this aggressive, this early?

[Prism]

Simpler restatement of 240: Debating the motivation for something I'm not doing in the first place is stupid.

[Lukewarm]

Simpler restatement of 240: Debating the motivation for something I'm not doing in the first place is stupid.

My question was if he thought scum!you would push a fake read so aggressively so early in the game.

Both his read on you and your counter read on him appear to be meta based, and because I was not a part of any of these game being talked about, it is hard for me to personally look at them and parse how genuine or fake they are.

So, instead I am looking at how you have acted in this thread. And here, you have presented a read, and then fought for it very aggressively.

Having never played a game with you, I am comparing your actions to a baseline of how I would expect scum and town to act in the thread. And from that baseline, you pushing this hard seems more likely to be coming from a town who truly believes it, then from a scum who faked the read.

I am explicitly asking if, based on his meta with you, he thinks that you would be more likely to behave this way as scum then that baseline of scum I have in my head.

I am trying to figure out how he looked at your play so far this game, and ended up with a scum lean

[Prism]

I know, that was for Child, but I appreciate explaining your perspective more anyway.

While I could answer what Hectic's argument is in that framework (he has something very coherent) I will leave it to him.

[Lukewarm]

I know, that was for Child, but I appreciate explaining your perspective more anyway.

oh

[Infinity 324]

I'm sure you have a good reason for playing the way you have so far, prism, but I kinda miss deja vu prism.

[Prism]

Don't say things like that to me, please. Not even the part about liking my play less this game but liking my play in any game.

I fucking hate it.

[Infinity 324]

:( sorry

[Prism]

Sorry, if you catch me after a workout I tend to be a lot less filtered. You didn't do anything wrong. I just genuinely do not handle anything resembling praise of past play well.