Open 815: Forest Fire Redux [Endgame]

[Infinity 324]

Explain?

Basically, I don't expect town to be nervous in that situation, and I expect scum to hide their nervousness. Originally when I read the post, I felt that it made more sense for hectic to be scum who couldn't hide his nervousness than nervous town. When he explained that he had been tunneled by prism before, it made more sense to me for hectic to be nervous as town.

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm had by far the best reaction to the 1v1, not even close, and should be voted in no world.

I agree. For me it's mostly the interactions with T3 and feeling really comfortable diving into that nuance which is the most towny, either way luke is my strongest TR

[T3]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Child of Fairies
T3
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
---------
Lukewarm
Prism

I probably pulled the trigger too early on giving Ydrasse a townread tbh, need to stop falling for those vibes. She's closer to null after rereading. Dashes are the null line

The progression between here and the next readlist on Lukewarm seems towny. I played with prism in DEFCON so I'll look over her ISO there. At this point I don't scumread Prism by play in this game.

[JohnnyFarrar]

VOTE: fidget

Coulda swore I did this last night.

Also I'll be touch and go for the next couple days, family stuff

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: johnny too many other people are towntelling and johnny normally gives me flashes of towniness but not here

[Infinity 324]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

[Child of Fairies]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Luke is super towny

Hectic is towny

Ydrasse is lean town ig

T3 is somewhat towny

Ask me about these I'm too lazy to explain otherwise

Curious about the T3 read. I've never played before, so his (and Johnny's) style of "I'm just going to jump in and vote from time to time without explanation" doesn't really read town to me at face value.

I agree with the rest of your reads, though.

[Infinity 324]

Lukewarm scumreading me this game is a huge scumtell.

This sort of confidence reads towny to me. If he's scum and luke has a history of correctly reading him, he probably wouldn't want to draw attention to that.

I also think scum might want to give more explanation to try to appear town, but that's a weaker reason.

[Prism]

Child, you aren't voting and don't appear to have any scumreads other than the ambiguous conclusion about myself and Hectic. Can you walk us through your thinking here?

[JohnnyFarrar]

Lol read that as though you were calling infinity a child

[Prism]

Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was towny imo

Why? I am considering voting Fidget over Hectic, reaction was awful imo and eager to take a side using the first reason she came up with.

[Infinity 324]

Noted, will look at what I thought was towny from her

What made you think "eager to take a side" as opposed to "eager to give thoughts"?

[Infinity 324]

Also, do you not care that I'm TRing hectic

[Fidget]

Infinity 324
Fidget
Lukewarm
Fidget
Child of Fairies
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
T3
Prism

I looked over Lukewarm's marathon scum game in the meantime, and tone is a lot less confrontational/confidence than how he just interacted here

Pedit: I think T3 mentioning that is actually more scum-indicative than town-indicative, there's reason to hold that read close to the chest if he thinks there's actually any value to it

You're reading me twice. Also, is your read list town at the middle or town at the top?

People let preemptive reads like that out of the bag all the time, though. Suboptimal play isn't always scummy.

It's coming across like Lukewarm is more likely town here for how comfortable he is, then.

[Fidget]

I thought Fidget's reaction to the 1v1 was very questionable. He doesn't really stop to consider the reverse where I would be correctly reading Hectic. This really felt like trying to understand the minimum amount w/ the confidence argument to give a passable stance and immediately read no further. (While I am biased due to the vote on me, Hectic's side also has a lot more depth than that. I took issue with Child's framing of our argument as superficial because both of us have really been splitting hairs)

Lukewarm had by far the best reaction to the 1v1, not even close, and should be voted in no world. I think Johnny's reaction was fine. I'm mostly confused as to why Child didn't vote me, or if they were suggesting it was SvS or TvS w/ the going through the motions argument.

As much as I want to call Infinity a townlean for their interactions with me yesterday I think that'd be a mistake, and I've fought off that instinct enough to call her null.

Ime a she but no worries.

I think you're right, I didn't stop super hard to think about if the arguments were reasonable (by you both). I thought it more or less a waste of time because I think both of you would try to make reasonable sounding arguments in order to SR the other even if scum. What I'm more interested in is if you actually believe them to be as strongly AI as you seem to think.

That, and I lack context to really understand if:

Prism - Lot of analysis and some meta. Good content but nothing I explicitly townrwad and that isn't fakeable for her. Tone is notably different but she says she's trying a different approach. Probably weakest townread on here

I don't buy this.

You have clearly seen me fake the freewheeling, joking tone (in the vein of non-tilted Costello or me at my most lighthearted in Chara's Folly) in Flying Scumsman. You have seen this sort of intentionality and sharper focus repeatedly, dating back to your first experience with me on Replica, continuing through Folly, with flashes of it in Binding of Isaac.

I have repeatedly done things to sort players both actively and preemptively. I find it unlikely that these take a backseat in your mind in favor of tone.

VOTE: Prism

Mm, I don't think you disregard the differences in context as easily as that I think there's a clear difference between someone reacting from.being hard townread - where being jokey is a lot more natural, and being hard scumread and pressured, where you're in a comoeltley different mindset.

Attributing one to town and the other to scum, and not considering a NAI difference is soemthing I find unrealistic from the mighty Replica/Costello/Servant RULER

I also kinda think you got better at reading me after Binding of Isaac mafia, and this push almost feels like a simulated version of your previous pushes on me (as town). Maybe I'm looking through OMGUS-tinted glasses right now, but I see the scenario where scum!Prism recognises town!Hectic always hard townreads her when she pushes him and wants to replicate that

These are valid or not. My point that they are stretches when compared to your levels of confidence stands. That doesn't automatically make it SvT but I can certainly see one of you going through the motions rather than actually believing this.

[Fidget]

Did the Prism/Hectic 1v1 come across as obviously TvT to any of you all, by the way?

I know Johnny and T3 gave their takes.

[Ydrasse]

not obvious, but possibly.

[Child of Fairies]

Child, you aren't voting and don't appear to have any scumreads other than the ambiguous conclusion about myself and Hectic. Can you walk us through your thinking here?

I don't like to vote early in the day to try and reduce the chance of a wagon from getting out of control quickly. A lot of this day has also been revolving around meta reads, which I can't really give input on as I've never played with any of you before. So I've been trying to just read and learn how everybody acts before I commit to a sound read in any direction.

As for you vs Hectic specifically, I felt like you were doing it mostly for the sake of appearing to be doing something, which I pointed out back then. I didn't vote because there was this feeling that even though it didn't necessarily read town to me, it felt like such a small thing that I wanted to wait and see how you acted outside of the 1v1 before I threw a vote around. Outside of the 1v1, your efforts feel a lot more genuine, so I've kept it on the backburner for now.

Hectic's more emotional response felt more genuine and more invested in the 1v1. This could go either way but between the two of you if it really is TvS I would say he's the town. Outside of your response to the 1v1 I don't have much reason to scumread either of you so I'm inclined to believe TvT for now, though.

T3 and Johnny both feel less towny to me due to their "I'm just going to hop in, vote, and leave" gameplans but most people are townreading T3 and he might always be like this and Johnny's v/la and that might be impacting it so /shrug

[Fidget]

Apologies, Fidget uses she/her.

Oh I see that you saw, nevermind that other post. No big deal though.

Taking Chara's Folly into account and apparently other games where Prism SRs Hectic for metaing her -- it's possibly TvT. However, Hectic accusing her push of being a mimicry of previous ones strikes my interest since that's how he caught Elements in Chara's Folly. So more evaluation needed.

I will say that Johnny seemingly finding Hectic v. Prism obviously (or at least likely) TvT from their exchange was too easy, appearing somewhat like TMI to me. I also don't really get what criteria he used to judge Faerie and myself as "spectators" and therefore scummy? Whereas Ydrasse was considered absent and T3/Infy/Luke were genuine participants. Something I'd like to talk about when he gets back.

I gave my thoughts on some of his TvT reasoning already, but I think he only had the time to vote me before he had to leave.

[Infinity 324]

256 just to reference what we're talking about

I see how this post is surface-level scummy in terms of the progression. To me, the fact that fidget isn't that confident in her initial impressions makes it make sense, and I've gotten that feeling before where both sides are approaching a 1v1 pretty scummy but it doesn't really make sense for them to be partners. The towniest part about this is how she works through her thought process within the post, though I don't feel as strongly about it as I did before.

[Infinity 324]

I hope fidget makes more towny posts because there was something else she did that was towny but I don't wanna go through her iso.

[Infinity 324]

I think ydrasse is town just cause she doesn't give a shit lol

[T3]

VOTE: Johnny
Let's pressure this.

[MURDERCAT]

Vote Count 1.6

[2] Prism: Hectic, Fidget
[2] JohnnyFarrar: Infinity 324, T3
[1] Hectic: Prism
[1] Child of Fairies: Lukewarm
[1] Fidget: JohnnyFarrar
[0] Infinity 324:
[0] T3:
[0] Ydrasse:
[0] Lukewarm:

Not voting: Child of Fairies, Ydrasse

With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline expires in

(expired on 2021-06-12 21:58:45).

Mod Notes:
- Hectic is V/LA until the 9th
- Ydrasse is V/LA until the 7th

[Lukewarm]

At the moment I am leaning town for T3 and Ydra based on how I have seen them play before.

Looking through isos, I am leaning town on Fidget atm

I am not sure what led people to town read hectic from the 1v1 with prism. looking at his iso, I feel like all of his responses would make sense as either alignment. I am still unsure what to think about his interaction with me either. So he is null for me.

I am leaning Infinity as town too. I like their interaction with the hectic / Prism 1v1. I think that some of their interections seem like they could have stopped a Prism tunnel on Hectic, which scum!Infinity would not have wanted unless exactly Hectic is her scum partner.

I am still of the opinion that scum!prism would not have gone so hard so early on hectic.

Fairies was pretty nonchelant about hitting E-1 imo

So I think I am left with VOTE: Johnny