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Post Post #700 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:08 am

Post by NinjaStore »

I haven't posted a proper reads list all game yet and it's time I do that.


James
: Town. One of the most active scumhunters. Not afraid to put his main scum reads out there even if they change pretty quickly (went fairly quickly from me/nav to me/dum/orc), but he does it in a way that feels genuine. I think he's just posting thoughts as they come to him, and then adapting to new info or further analysis of existing info. Afterwards he tends to follow up. Generally trying to push the group into productive discussion.

Navigatorv
: Town. Very active in scum hunting. Seemed scummy at first due to how self-conscious he's acting, but i've gotten used to it and it seems like that's just his personality, or at least it's how he acts under the pressure of playing in mafia.

Humaneatingmonkey
: Cautiously town-leaning. Good day 1. He probes people/pushes buttons a lot. Some of his posts have very little explanation, but it could be a tactic to get reactions from people. But I could also see his posting style as a way to try to fish out power roles.

Orctin
: Scum-leaning. I read him as vaguely towny in day 1 but found myself wondering if he's just fooling me into thinking that. A lot of "helpful" posts providing general info about players or the game, devoid of real scumhunting. Which is funny in retrospect because that was my original reason for joke-voting him D1. Catboi and James make a good case against him.

Catboi
: Scum. I had already read JacksonVirgo as scum, and I have a stronger scum-read after seeing how catboi has talked about orctin.

Orctin was a player who had been fairly inactive and wasn't receiving much attention. Up until recently, most of the general group suspicion regarding the Dum/Orc gambit had been on Dum, leaving Orc out of the spotlight. Then today, catboi replaces in right after there starts to be pressure on orctin, and immediately makes a heavy push against orctin and starts a wagon on him. Great way to capitalize on a player who's suddenly under pressure and build momentum on them, while quickly making yourself look like you're a more useful scumhunter than the previous player.

Catboi isn't good. orctin clarified what he meant regarding potential partners in (which was further clarified later in ), then catboi asks nonsensical followup questions where the answer should be obvious given orctin's previous post.

If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.

Super: I had already scum-read Dum. Need to take a closer look at Super, but I'll save that for another post.
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Post Post #701 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:08 am

Post by NinjaStore »

My vote stays on catboi.
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Post Post #702 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:07 am

Post by catboi »

In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.
Lol
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Post Post #703 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:08 am

Post by JamesTheNames »

In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:I haven't posted a proper reads list all game yet and it's time I do that.


James
: Town. One of the most active scumhunters. Not afraid to put his main scum reads out there even if they change pretty quickly (went fairly quickly from me/nav to me/dum/orc), but he does it in a way that feels genuine. I think he's just posting thoughts as they come to him, and then adapting to new info or further analysis of existing info. Afterwards he tends to follow up. Generally trying to push the group into productive discussion.
Just want to clarify, it wasn't me being suspicious of navigatorv, it was more of a, "I wonder if that could be a pair, I'm going to look into it.".
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Post Post #704 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:10 am

Post by JamesTheNames »

^ assuming its referring to .
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Post Post #705 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:11 am

Post by catboi »

Describing my followup as "nonsensical" is a pretty egregious attack. I assume you're referring to ? What part of it, exactly, did you find nonsensical?
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Post Post #706 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:14 am

Post by catboi »

In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:I had already read JacksonVirgo as scum
Remind me again what your reasons for scumreading him were?
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Post Post #707 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:15 am

Post by JamesTheNames »

In post 702, catboi wrote:
In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.
Lol
I don't like this. "That claim is so stupid" vibes.
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Post Post #708 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:19 am

Post by NinjaStore »

In post 704, JamesTheNames wrote:^ assuming its referring to .
Yeah.
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Post Post #709 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:24 am

Post by catboi »

In post 707, JamesTheNames wrote:
In post 702, catboi wrote:
In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.
Lol
I don't like this. "That claim is so stupid" vibes.
Pre-emptively claiming that if my scumread flips red I must have bussed is fairly ludicrous and seems more like ninjastore attempting to cover his own ass in the event of an orctin scumflip
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Post Post #710 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:31 am

Post by Cabd »

humanestingmonkey has requested replacement. Searching. Deadline will be reset to 72 hours.
Have retired for good; Life is too busy to have time or energy for mafia. It was fun~
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Post Post #711 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:32 am

Post by Super »

In post 710, Cabd wrote:
humanestingmonkey has requested replacement. Searching. Deadline will be reset to 72 hours.
goddamn it lol, like half my questions were for Monkey :(
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Post Post #712 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:34 am

Post by Super »

Gira what's your read on me? if any?

I'll respond to Ninja/Orc when I get up from bed
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Post Post #713 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:35 am

Post by NinjaStore »

In post 705, catboi wrote:Describing my followup as "nonsensical" is a pretty egregious attack. I assume you're referring to ? What part of it, exactly, did you find nonsensical?
I'm talking about this:
In post 611, catboi wrote:
In post 609, orctin wrote:That's cause there's 2 ways to look at things - first was from a HEM View - and if HEM was scum - then who would i put with him - James fit that line of thought because of their counterpoints. When i came to James i Look from another angle, If i was to read James as scum, I think honestly a much wider scope of who's with him because his place is different,

So your looking at two angles - one from the Hem angle - who to pair with him - the other from the James angle - and who would pair with him. I dont read them the same way but view it as two totally different situation so you cant just automatically put one with the other in looking both ways
This is gibberish. How is it you could see person A being teamed with person B if they are scum, but if you think of person B as scum you don't see person A as a partner?

Additionally, this is contradicting what you said in your reads list - in there you said you had a hard time seeing a partner for James, but here you're suddenly saying there's a much wider scope of people who could be scum with James?
Orctin had
just
explained what he had meant - that IF HEM was scum, a likely partner was James, and IF James was scum, the partner could be any number of people.

Then in the second part of your post:
Additionally, this is contradicting what you said in your reads list - in there you said you had a hard time seeing a partner for James, but here you're suddenly saying there's a much wider scope of people who could be scum with James?
They literally mean the same thing.
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Post Post #714 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:49 am

Post by catboi »

No, those literally mean the exact opposite, ninjastore - orctin in his reads list was reading James as town and said "I haven't seen a pairing yet with him", which seemingly implied he had no viable partners. The explanation he gave after being questioned on this is the exact opposite of that. How are you pretending not to see this?
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Post Post #715 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:52 am

Post by catboi »

In post 712, Super wrote:Gira what's your read on me? if any?

I'll respond to Ninja/Orc when I get up from bed
Residually town from Dum, your catchup was fine and I don't have any objection to it. With you replacing in I don't really expect to be able to read you in the usual way but you're fine so far.
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Post Post #716 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:57 am

Post by NinjaStore »

In post 706, catboi wrote:
In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:I had already read JacksonVirgo as scum
Remind me again what your reasons for scumreading him were?
and on

His tone stood out at the start of day 2 after a re-read of the thread.

Tone that emphasized that he was making reads rather than who the reads were about
Constantly reminding people that this is his playstyle

I also pointed out something he said about being town that set off my spidey sense, a point that james seems really obsessed with.

And he had a bizarre day 1 post about early hammers that he claimed was a gambit.
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Post Post #717 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:09 am

Post by NinjaStore »

catboi's actions look scummy for reasons completely unrelated to anything JacksonVirgo did. Any player entering the game when catboi did and making that push against orctin would be making what looks to me like a scum play.
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Post Post #718 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:14 am

Post by JamesTheNames »

In post 717, NinjaStore wrote:catboi's actions look scummy for reasons completely unrelated to anything JacksonVirgo did. Any player entering the game when catboi did and making that push against orctin would be making what looks to me like a scum play.
What do you make of Super then?
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Post Post #719 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:16 am

Post by catboi »

How does any of that equate to being scum?

What about his "tone" stood out, and why was it scummy? How can one "emphasize" things with "tone"? What do you mean when you say he was emphasizing making reads, rather than who the reads were about? Give examples.

Given the amount of pressure he was under, emphasizing the things he was being attacked for are part of his playstyle is null at best, unless he lying and it is not actually part of his playstyle (and I am absolutely not doing a background check to find out).

How is a post emphasizing he's town supposed to be scummy? That's something players of either alignment will do.

I looked up the hammering thing:
In post 547, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 546, NinjaStore wrote:Yes. How is explaining a policy and saying "Enforcing it like this will make sure nobody, not even scum will hammer and if a hammer does happen it will be from scum" a gambit? What were you hoping to accomplish?
Are you fucking serious. If you actually READ MY FUCKIN POSTS you would know.


By saying that we will eliminate anyone that hammers, and I push it as serious, scum would not hammer. Therefore, it is very unlikely a speed-hammer will happen and if it does, I would know with very small doubt that the hammerer is Town.
Why is that scummy? You claim it's bizarre, explain why scum does that post? (I think that thing is really townie, but of course I'm biased)


Your focus here seems to be on almost entirely superficial things that have little to no relation to whether or not someone is actually mafia. The thing to be looking at, in the most general terms, is whether someone is playing to a town win condition (trying to find and eliminate mafia) or a scum win condition (survive and get town eliminated). The things you are claiming to scumread JV for don't really fit into any sort of sensible framework for scumhunting, it's just things like "interesting tone" - which, by the way, "interesting"? Not "scummy"? it feels like you're being guarded in your use of language here.
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Post Post #720 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:20 am

Post by catboi »

In post 717, NinjaStore wrote:catboi's actions look scummy for reasons completely unrelated to anything JacksonVirgo did. Any player entering the game when catboi did and making that push against orctin would be making what looks to me like a scum play.
Why does it have to be a scum play? What do you think a town player who replaces into a slot under suspicion would do? Why couldn't I be town with a legitimate read that I'm trying to push?
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Post Post #721 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:21 am

Post by Super »

In post 717, NinjaStore wrote:catboi's actions look scummy for reasons completely unrelated to anything JacksonVirgo did. Any player entering the game when catboi did and making that push against orctin would be making what looks to me like a scum play.
In post 707, JamesTheNames wrote:
In post 702, catboi wrote:
In post 700, NinjaStore wrote:If orctin is scum, this is a bus for catboi to quickly build the town's trust.
Lol
I don't like this. "That claim is so stupid" vibes.
it is a stupid claim lol, I'd lol at it too
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Post Post #722 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:23 am

Post by Super »

I don't think Catboi's entrance and push on Orc was scummy, it feels like you're slightly grasping at straws to scumread someone here; or at least I just don't see your point on them

but I townread Jackson pretty hard and don't see Gira as scum here so that's probably why I'm just like ... not getting the push
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Post Post #723 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 am

Post by Super »

@Ninja

"Orctin: Scum-leaning. I read him as vaguely towny in day 1 but found myself wondering if he's just fooling me into thinking that. A lot of "helpful" posts providing general info about players or the game, devoid of real scumhunting. Which is funny in retrospect because that was my original reason for joke-voting him D1. Catboi and James make a good case against him.

Catboi: Scum. I had already read JacksonVirgo as scum, and I have a stronger scum-read after seeing how catboi has talked about orctin."


I don't understand how you can say Catboi and James have made good cases against Orc and you're leaning scum on Orc, but then say Catboi is bussing and his push on Orc was bad? It seems very contradictory lmao
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Post Post #724 (ISO) » Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:37 am

Post by NinjaStore »

In post 712, Super wrote:Gira what's your read on me? if any?

I'll respond to Ninja/Orc when I get up from bed
I had to look back a few pages to see who gira was. Could you call him catboi? It would help keep the conversation clearer.

I'll address other questions/posts when I get the chance. I need to be productive atm.
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