Open 816: C9++ || Game Over

[Menalque]

DAY ONE

VOTECOUNT 1.3

[4] SirCakez:

The Limit Does Not Exist, Dwlee99, PookyTheMagicalBear, PenguinPower,

[2] xHeavenx:

SirCakez, Almost50

[2] Almost50:

Gamma Emerald, Kerset

[2] Dwlee99:

Gypyx, Tigerente

[1] Umlaut:

xHeavenx

[1] Tigerente:

Umlaut

[1] The Limit Does Not Exist:

Datisi

[0] Not Voting:

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-06-13 13:55:00).

MOD NOTES

•

skitter30

is

V/LA

on weekends

•

Datisi

is

V/LA

until Thursday

• Joined mod ISO

•

[SirCakez]

Cakey do you think Town!Lilith could peg you as scum this early in D1?

Yeah probably she knows me pretty well

[Datisi]

because my gut says so.

you think scum lilith tries to push towncakes right away on d1?

I find it way more likely that town lilith has geniune suspicion of ?cakes than the former.

i don't see a reason why she wouldn't? is there some kinda meta knowledge that scum!lilith usually sits on her ass on d1 or something?

like you're calling it a hardpush but it's based on "cakez had one bad vote" how hard can that push really be

[Datisi]

I don't think I've seen S!lilith hard push this early in d1 so unless any1 else has seen it I'm gonna treat this as a town!motivated push >.>

how many games have you played with scum!lilith?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

from the games i've seen of scum lilith she is more passive on early d1 when scum,

I haven't seen her go direct to a serious push.

just off top of my head in these two games from scum!lili:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=86336
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=85257

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

can you give me a counterexample where lilith does do a serious push as scum right away?

[Tigerente]

because my gut says so.

you think scum lilith tries to push towncakes right away on d1?

I find it way more likely that town lilith has geniune suspicion of ?cakes than the former.

i don't see a reason why she wouldn't? is there some kinda meta knowledge that scum!lilith usually sits on her ass on d1 or something?

like you're calling it a hardpush but it's based on "cakez had one bad vote" how hard can that push really be

Fwiw i think that lilith's tone is like weird but i agree with pooky in that she isnt usually so pushy / post-y / taking-initiative-y as scum here

[Datisi]

can you give me a counterexample where lilith does do a serious push as scum right away?

open 781: jk9++ is the only game i've played with scum!lilith, and skimming through her early iso, she did a semi-early serious push on penguin that game, so kinda?

also /shrug, the fact that she "usually" (which is debateable anyway) doesn't hardpush early as scum is nowhere near enough to convince me that that should make her town here - something something, meta changes, and this is faaaar too weak of a meta point (i.e. easily changeable) to be taken that seriously.

in other news: i'm reading interactions between lilith/cakez/pooky as Wrong. it feels like there's somehing wrong with them, i don't know if it's them having relatively strong reads on each other so quickly or what but i'm feeling uneasy.

[xHeavenx]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

I think I have a specific tell on cakes that is 98% of the reason I’m voting him. The other 2% is the heaven vote. SS asked me to not share the tell yet, therefore I only shared the heaven vote part.

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

[Datisi]

also: pooky gives me a scummy vibe of "trying not to appear in the center of attention while still trying to steer the conversation to his liking" but i'm not too interested in acting upon it immediately because i know i need more time to read him and i would not want to get wrong!tunnelled on pooky.

[Datisi]

pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

except he was willing to instantly jump to your defense as soon as i started saying i think you're scum, so...? i disagree?

[Tigerente]

i think she kinda has a hard time posting as scum, and gets drained by it quite a lot
like she can force herself to post but can't really sustain it too long imo
i don't know if she takes the initiative on this cakez thing as scum
and i don't think this is something she can change that easily

(lilith <3)

i agree that i'm getting scummy vibes from pooky too

~ skitter

[xHeavenx]

I feel like half of the posts I'm reading so far are heavily influenced by meta on the other players and it's making me feel left out.

[Tigerente]

i'm sorry :/ i'm not so good at separating out the meta .... i'll try to be more holistic

~ skitteR

[Datisi]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

i'm not saying one cannot have strong feelings this early - i've had strong (correct) feelings on people's alignments on page 1 before. (before someone cries how this contradicts my 173 - it doesn't. i deemed what lilith reacted to to not be enough to get a strong feeling. you may call me egocentric if you wish.) you pinged me tonally, yes, but i don't think you understand the strength of that ping - it was not that strong. by the time i changed my vote away from you onto dwlee, i was satisfied with what you posted. i got what i wanted, i moved on. why would you *expect* me to go further about that?

[xHeavenx]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

i'm not saying one cannot have strong feelings this early - i've had strong (correct) feelings on people's alignments on page 1 before. (before someone cries how this contradicts my 173 - it doesn't. i deemed what lilith reacted to to not be enough to get a strong feeling. you may call me egocentric if you wish.) you pinged me tonally, yes, but i don't think you understand the strength of that ping - it was not that strong. by the time i changed my vote away from you onto dwlee, i was satisfied with what you posted. i got what i wanted, i moved on. why would you *expect* me to go further about that?

Mmmmm

I like talking things out I guess. Even if someone scumreads me or finds something I did something, I learn a lot more with direct conversation. It's especially harder here too because I am just as much of a stranger to you all, so I have to be reliant on situations like this. I really am just getting next to nothing from these last few pages and I do want to help.

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

[xHeavenx]

Something I did wrong*

I don't why I repeated myself there, I need to readjust my glasses :I

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

considering that you described it as "meh", what do you think about that? or rather, what does "meh" mean.

I just found um the way you handled your own suspicions to be a bit incomplete. I know it's early but the idea that you can't have strong feelings about something is wrong. If I pinged you tonally then I pinged you tonally. I really expected you to get further about that, but you didn't. Your reasons after the fact fall back onto your own habits as explained how you believe you're obvtown when you're obvtown. My own thoughts is that you're null and I think self-aware players are the most dangerous type, so I can't really accept you being town until I see it.

i'm not saying one cannot have strong feelings this early - i've had strong (correct) feelings on people's alignments on page 1 before. (before someone cries how this contradicts my 173 - it doesn't. i deemed what lilith reacted to to not be enough to get a strong feeling. you may call me egocentric if you wish.) you pinged me tonally, yes, but i don't think you understand the strength of that ping - it was not that strong. by the time i changed my vote away from you onto dwlee, i was satisfied with what you posted. i got what i wanted, i moved on. why would you *expect* me to go further about that?

Did you miss my post where I said the heaven vote was only ~2% of the reason I was voting cakes?

- lilith

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

except he was willing to instantly jump to your defense as soon as i started saying i think you're scum, so...? i disagree?

like maybe your reasons are bad reasons

I won’t disagree that pooky could be scum but if scum!pooky came to my defense it was probably because he saw it as an easy defense

- lilith

[xHeavenx]

@heaven what’s your opinion on cakes voting you and our current discussion of whether it is scummy for me to be pushing cakes for it?

- lilith

Your own reasoning is fine but mine slightly differs. I don't like what cakez is doing because it's awkward. I said pointless earlier and then his response to that was that he was making a joke. Jokes usually require a bit of knowledge or even a setup but there I think he was just excusing himself. His words come out only at the concern of others and even then I just don't really believe him.

[Datisi]

I like talking things out I guess. Even if someone scumreads me or finds something I did wrong, I learn a lot more with direct conversation.

if you feel like you learn a lot more with direct conversation, why didn't you ask me about my moving vote?

Did you miss my post where I said the heaven vote was only ~2% of the reason I was voting cakes?

i didn't. but considering you're not revealing the reason, it's quite literally no use to me. i cannot tell the difference between town!lilith having an actual tell vs. a scum!lilith going "hehe guys i have a tell on cakez, no i will not tell you~"

pooky didn’t even have me in his initial readslist ftr. I don’t think of his read on me as “particularly strong”

- lilith

except he was willing to instantly jump to your defense as soon as i started saying i think you're scum, so...? i disagree?

like maybe your reasons are bad reasons

I won’t disagree that pooky could be scum but if scum!pooky came to my defense it was probably because he saw it as an easy defense

- lilith

like idek maybe they are bad reasons but maybe you're scum regardless

[The Limit Does Not Exist]

My slip detector turned on.

Please turn it back off

-S