Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[Moongrass]

A lot hinges on NK15 though so it might still be our best wagon, if he's scum I don't think it's with jjh and mastina.

[House]

I think I'm warming up on town!moon, possibly, and I think the scums could be elsewhere considering the gamestate, I think a push on FMFT is not a bad idea

i don't believe this, for the record.

What's your read on FMFT?

Has it changed from null?

[nomnomnom]

I think I'm warming up on town!moon, possibly, and I think the scums could be elsewhere considering the gamestate, I think a push on FMFT is not a bad idea

i don't believe this, for the record.

I acknowledge a few things in regards to moon, largely your meta read on her is something that was on my mind for a while, but also the fact that some things make me hesitate despite my strong push on the slot. There's a possibility I am just wrong on my analysis from the get go and I want to take time and reconsider. It's just possible moon is irritated town, I have this hesitation because this is sometimes how I act when I am town and my head's spinning a lot, happened in a lot of games like Team Mafia where I had multiple breakdowns in thread lol
My main question with moon still is: is the anger genuine, and if yes, is town angry at me, or is scum angry at me? That has been my question for the majority of my push on moon.

[Moongrass]

almost nobody on site plays like scum RC, the comment may be similar but using that as a model for evaluation doesn't make sense because jjh isn't an RC-like player.

Fair.

[northsidegal]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

this isn't an argument, it's just poisoning the well. if i rolled scum in a game i would play to make sure that RC and moon and mathdino and everyone who's ever known me would townread me, but i can't, so i don't.

What's your read on FMFT?

Has it changed from null?

i think he slightly leans town. i find the vote shifts that happened onto him in the past two pages incredibly noteworthy.

[NorwegianboyEE]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

[Titus]

@cyrus, I understand my ISO is a bit lacking as I have been on vla for a good chunk of the game. I am stealing 5 minutes to post here. I'm giving what I can but my usual methods aren't working for scumhunting as I can't really engage anyone.

I'm hoping to adapt soon but my schedule and anxiety exploded.

[House]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

this isn't an argument, it's just poisoning the well. if i rolled scum in a game i would play to make sure that RC and moon and mathdino and everyone who's ever known me would townread me, but i can't, so i don't.

What's your read on FMFT?

Has it changed from null?

i think he slightly leans town. i find the vote shifts that happened onto him in the past two pages incredibly noteworthy.

Okay, what has he said to change your mind?

[Moongrass]

My main question with moon still is: is the anger genuine, and if yes, is town angry at me, or is scum angry at me? That has been my question for the majority of my push on moon.

I guess frustration is a form of anger. Generally there's a very distinctive difference between town anger and scum anger tonally. Scum tend to have weird tone shifts at weird times but town tend to get angry in spots that make sense and usually more intensely than scum.

[northsidegal]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. the

probability

that

any

town player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.

[House]

@cyrus, I understand my ISO is a bit lacking as I have been on vla for a good chunk of the game. I am stealing 5 minutes to post here. I'm giving what I can but my usual methods aren't working for scumhunting as I can't really engage anyone.

I'm hoping to adapt soon but my schedule and anxiety exploded.

[nomnomnom]

Scum tend to have weird tone shifts at weird times but town tend to get angry in spots that make sense and usually more intensely than scum.

See this reason is why you're still in the back of my mind considering some weird tone shifts in the middle of anger lol
That was largely why I asked you about your ex-friend and I got a weird tone shift right at that instant and that just made me feel "yeah this is scum".
It's so weird that you're the one telling me this too.
One side of me just thinks I was right on the money from the get go, but I think the rational side of me wants to take a look again at this game and just take my time to see what would make the most sense for scums here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

[northsidegal]

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

Very good point actually.

it's not.

[Moongrass]

this isn't an argument, it's just poisoning the well. if i rolled scum in a game i would play to make sure that RC and moon and mathdino and everyone who's ever known me would townread me, but i can't, so i don't

Ok, I've never been strong on logical arguments, I feel something and then my brain tries to use me to communicate it but it never quite gets the entire point across. My point of all this isn't to get jjh limmed today, I just don't think it's impossible for him to be scum. But I'll keep your read in mind and see what I come up with.

[northsidegal]

to be clear, i've never said that it's impossible for jjh to be scum. my argument—as it always is—is that i see the evidence for him being town as being relatively strong, and the evidence for him being scum to be fairly weak or nonexistent.

[NorwegianboyEE]

or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.

Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?

almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. the

probability

that

any

town player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.

And this is exactly why scum would do so. Every good scumgame i've had i always try to do what i know people will think: "scum!Norwee would never do this".
I guess it makes sense for you to claim players are different, but in that case. Are you saying JJH has had the exact same playstyle in all his games up to now and never changed his strategies as scum?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you never analyze your own play and try to find new ways of deceiving town as scum then you'll never strive to improve as an player, and JJH seems to me like an highly competent player that would try to improve his scumgame.

[Moongrass]

Stumpwars haha dgb get in there.
VOTE: NK15 I think I prefer this for now.

[nomnomnom]

You know rereading this game something feels quite off right at the beginning and I'm unsure what to make of some things.
I changed my mind about FMFT UNVOTE:

[House]

nom is pinging me, lately.

I may have to do an ISO.

[northsidegal]

norwee, do you think that jjh is scum or no? if the answer is no then i'm sorry but i don't think that it's an effective use of my time to get into a discussion about whether or not people have metas at all and whether or not meta is an effective tool, which i think it unambiguously is.

[Moongrass]

I think there's clearly a split in the game with jjh mastina on one side and Fey nm on the other. If both groups are town then the game gets tricky.

[House]

norwee, do you think that jjh is scum or no? if the answer is no then i'm sorry but i don't think that it's an effective use of my time to get into a discussion about whether or not people have metas at all and whether or not meta is an effective tool, which i think it unambiguously is.

If I had rolled scum here I'd be playing to make sure nsg and mastina townread me.

this isn't an argument, it's just poisoning the well. if i rolled scum in a game i would play to make sure that RC and moon and mathdino and everyone who's ever known me would townread me, but i can't, so i don't.

What's your read on FMFT?

Has it changed from null?

i think he slightly leans town. i find the vote shifts that happened onto him in the past two pages incredibly noteworthy.

Okay, what has he said to change your mind?

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwee, do you think that jjh is scum or no? if the answer is no then i'm sorry but i don't think that it's an effective use of my time to get into a discussion about whether or not people have metas at all and whether or not meta is an effective tool, which i think it unambiguously is.

I don't think he's unambigiously scum. I just think your reason for townreading him is bad, as i could easily see them flipping scum as well at this point.