Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[nomnomnom]

Touching. Very touching.
While that is going on there is no case on me and Moongrass just opportunistically decided to change her read on me as scum despite being on the top of her list a few posts ago all because nsg said I was scum, and invoking a logic she should know isn't even true.

[nomnomnom]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

[House]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

No interest in asking what my concerns are, just that "you got nothing, see! Any jury would acquit, see!"?

Not particularly persuasive, see.

[Moongrass]

It's on! Gloves up, I want a clean fight.
VOTE: nom

[nomnomnom]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

No interest in asking what my concerns are, just that "you got nothing, see! Any jury would acquit, see!"?

Not particularly persuasive, see.

No in fact I am doing the opposite.
I'm challenging nsg, moon or you to show me a convincing case on me. You guys have shown nothing, and I know I am town, so I know that whatever you will bring won't stick

[nomnomnom]

Especially in the case of Moon which I am convinced has literally changed her read on me because of nsg. I know she will never bring an argument forward.

[House]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

No interest in asking what my concerns are, just that "you got nothing, see! Any jury would acquit, see!"?

Not particularly persuasive, see.

No in fact I am doing the opposite.
I'm challenging nsg, moon or you to show me a convincing case on me. You guys have shown nothing, and I know I am town, so I know that whatever you will bring won't stick

That's not the opposite.

That's exactly what I said you were doing.

Your behavior smacks of guilt.

[nomnomnom]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

No interest in asking what my concerns are, just that "you got nothing, see! Any jury would acquit, see!"?

Not particularly persuasive, see.

No in fact I am doing the opposite.
I'm challenging nsg, moon or you to show me a convincing case on me. You guys have shown nothing, and I know I am town, so I know that whatever you will bring won't stick

That's not the opposite.

That's exactly what I said you were doing.

Your behavior smacks of guilt.

Then go ahead and show it! What's so scummy about my behavior? Where are the scumposts? Come on, bring it on, make this fun at least for me, I ain't gonna sit here and take some vague "um uuum I think nommers is a scummer haha" and be content with that, show me what you've got

[Moongrass]

I thought it would take until D2 with me dead for it to be obvious that nom has nothing without her tunnel on me. But that weird posting and vote shifting after I townread nom when I was no longer their target shows they really have nothing else to keep them afloat.

[Moongrass]

His* ugh.

[NorwegianboyEE]

To be exceedingly clear, my argument for JJH being town has nothing at all to do with the fact that I won paragon, or any claim of superior general ability to anyone else. The specific point I was making when I brought that up was to counter your implication that I was incorrectly projecting my own mindset or playstyle onto other players when it was not applicable, which you asserted without evidence. This has nothing to do with my reads on anyone or attempting to convince someone on a read. It's specifically to the contrary of you directly impugning my skills based on nothing at all.

Then

EXPLAIN

it. The reason i'm doing this in the first place is because you're mostly just saying JJH is town and when i asked why you just bring up your authority on the matter and that you are awesome at reading those players instead of explaining exactly what it is that proves your case.

[nomnomnom]

I thought it would take until D2 with me dead for it to be obvious that nom has nothing without her tunnel on me

And that is absolutely why you've put me at the top of your list a few posts ago, because you still believed at that time that I was scum tunneling on you and that I had nothing else, correct?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Nsg that's where you ignore the other person. We all know you're great, can you please redirect onto if my wagon was a counter and what nom scum means for NK?

This isn't about me proving that I'm great, it's the exact opposite. I don't care if people think that I'm bad or not. It upsets me slightly to have people impugn my skills, but it upsets me a

lot

more to have someone imply that I'm this arrogant person bragging about her accomplishments, because that goes against everything that I stand for as a person. It's completely contrary to everything about how I hold myself. I don't even know what kind of comparison I could make to get this across. I believe in humility so much and have always tried to act in accordance to that. I just really don't appreciate someone casually implying otherwise.

Ok but like, if you just explained why your reads are what they are and what the meta reads are about then i wouldn't have questioned your humility in the first place.

[House]

Bring it on! There is still no case on me. You've got nothing

No interest in asking what my concerns are, just that "you got nothing, see! Any jury would acquit, see!"?

Not particularly persuasive, see.

No in fact I am doing the opposite.
I'm challenging nsg, moon or you to show me a convincing case on me. You guys have shown nothing, and I know I am town, so I know that whatever you will bring won't stick

That's not the opposite.

That's exactly what I said you were doing.

Your behavior smacks of guilt.

Then go ahead and show it! What's so scummy about my behavior? Where are the scumposts? Come on, bring it on, make this fun at least for me, I ain't gonna sit here and take some vague "um uuum I think nommers is a scummer haha" and be content with that, show me what you've got

It's pretty obvious to anyone that reads your ISO, checks out your votes, and the way your reads flow.

A couple votes on you will spur more people to do exactly that, and they can make up their own minds.

[nomnomnom]

It's pretty obvious to anyone that reads your ISO, checks out your votes, and the way your reads flow.

Oh now I *really* want an explanation for this post
1) what is supposed to be obvious in my ISO? Point it out.
2) what is scummy about my votes?
3) what is scummy about my reads?
Go on, I ain't letting you go with this weak push

[Gamma Emerald]

i want to test something besides me no town vote on nk15

I'm guessing this means you're entertaining a theory that you're the only town vote on NK15 currently?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not liked JJ’s read on Cyrus.
In fact i don’t really find anything about JJ townie.
Gamma i’ve liked a bit better for their interactions recently.

Not scumreading JJ for the record, just not convinced.

could you talk more about this?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Guys, nom is scum.

Consider things here.
You
A: Consider yourself an extremely humble, yet talented player. As evidenced by you pointing out your own paragon, yet disliking to do so.
B: You case JJH as town and Nom as scum, with BARELY any sort of reasoning whatsoever. I can even remember back during my first game of mafia on this site called Haunted Village you popped in and claimed i was town without explaining the reasoning why, and yet a lot of people got cold feet and stopped pushing my wagon. You have this incredible weight behind your push and yet it's like i cannot see into your mind at all, why are your reads what they are? What do you base them on? How am i supposed to know your read on JJ or Nom is something i'd agree with when all you brought to the table with Nom was "Guys, nom is scum" and when you put them on the bottom of your unexplained readslist in your very first mention of Nom in the game. And now already a lot of players are sheeping you and calling Nom scum because you just said so. I find it incredibly odd and also wrong for a player to have this much influence and yet give so little in terms of actual analysis.

[northsidegal]

To be exceedingly clear, my argument for JJH being town has nothing at all to do with the fact that I won paragon, or any claim of superior general ability to anyone else. The specific point I was making when I brought that up was to counter your implication that I was incorrectly projecting my own mindset or playstyle onto other players when it was not applicable, which you asserted without evidence. This has nothing to do with my reads on anyone or attempting to convince someone on a read. It's specifically to the contrary of you directly impugning my skills based on nothing at all.

Then

EXPLAIN

it. The reason i'm doing this in the first place is because you're mostly just saying JJH is town and when i asked why you just bring up your authority on the matter and that you are awesome at reading those players instead of explaining exactly what it is that proves your case.

I have explained it: 1667, 1672, 1679, 1684. In

none

of those posts do I "just bring up [my] authority on the matter". It is indeed a fact that I have a good record on reading jjh, but nowhere do I expect someone to just take that as justification alone. (For the record, I do actually think that it probably makes sense to trust someone you know is town on a read that they're claiming a good record on—it's a Mathdino style read—but nowhere do I

expect

someone to do that).

The things you're saying about what I'm saying are just not accurate and in the future I would appreciate if you would either directly quote where you think I'm doing those things when you say things like that, or stop making those kinds of accusations.

And so like I was trying to do in 1714, let me try to explain my point and why I disagree with 1691 socratically. So, question: do you think it's possible to sort people based on meta?

[Gamma Emerald]

is no one else seeing how hard it is to get a nk hammer . think we need 7 votes if there is 3 scum here and nither of them are voting nk15 then thats why its takeing so long.

Based on this you seem to be thinking scum would hammer here if NK15 was town? My question is, why do you think they'd respond to obvious bait like what you're doing?

[Moongrass]

I thought it would take until D2 with me dead for it to be obvious that nom has nothing without her tunnel on me

And that is absolutely why you've put me at the top of your list a few posts ago, because you still believed at that time that I was scum tunneling on you and that I had nothing else, correct?

Obviously not immediately after my review, it all came flooding back with your behaviour after the townread. My reads are not set in stone yet, when I have the team sorted I'll be sure to let you know. If your only argument is that it's scummy to change reads then you've missed the boat, that was so 5 pages ago. Come with something fresh.

[House]

It's pretty obvious to anyone that reads your ISO, checks out your votes, and the way your reads flow.

Oh now I *really* want an explanation for this post
1) what is supposed to be obvious in my ISO? Point it out.
2) what is scummy about my votes?
3) what is scummy about my reads?
Go on, I ain't letting you go with this weak push

I'm not pushing you.

I'm voting you.

If I was pushing you, you wouldn't have to ask questions.

You'd have to answer them.

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: NK ISO Review

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

The first thing that set me off was the superficial read of the Fey twins earlier in their ISO, but then they make this post where it's very easy to superficially scumread cyrus (which they don't).

FMFT & cyrus are the two I'm comfortable voting at this point.

FMFT, okay, but why Cyrus?

FMFT seems to be a very evasive in giving actual reasons for their scumreads.

I ISO'ed Cyrus and didn't find anything suspicious.

FMFT is voting with you - why are you shading them?

You mean why I scumread them a bit?
Because not all of my scumreads are perfect. One of you may be very well town. Or not.
Because scum does not always vote town.

Scum tends to be more aware of those on the wagon with them, and I think NK would have a better answer than this fumbling around post if they were scum.

It means not interacting with them directly which I haven't for some time. Like I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads, but it's actually easier to play as a team instead of some delusional scum hunting god flying solo. A lot of what I do won't ever be acknowledged and I've made peace with that long ago.

1. That is a lie, you've made the "giving space" post very early on in your iso but still interacted and wrote a case about the hydra being scum in the meantime
2. The "I know it's next level play to you to actually take into account other people's reads" is highly not necessary and comes off as discrediting a very valid point
3. So your whole argument is that you want to play as a team so I assume this means that you are basically saying you are more or less trying to follow the stumps in their assessments. While that is a fair assessment, I don't buy that, as town:
>You basically give up your nancy push because of that
>You change your gamma read from town to scum because of that (because I assume this is what it is, considering you confidently say you townread gamma early on, then for no reason include him in your hypothetical scumteam, and the only explanation I see that could justify that is norwee saying he thinks the slot is scummy)
That last self-defeating line also doesn't strike me as town at all and feels more like trying to sell to me a town mindset that doesn't exist.
I feel pretty confident that you're scum here. None of this makes sense.

This is a pretty accurate statement.

Yeah, no thanks. So did Nancy put you up to this?

This post gives me a very bad feeling.

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

Yep.
Scumteam is Moongrass + Cyrus + Mia/FMFT
VOTE: Moongrass

Oh! Yeah, this flip with zero progression really triggered me.

If Moongrass isn't town then the hydra is obviously town, and I suspected Moongrass a bit more than the hydra. Yet if Moongrass is town the hydra is a scumread.
Although

Hope is less effective than an unvote.

UNVOTE:

I am not so sure why they unvoted here if they are scum.
What made me suspicious of Cyrus is this here:

Cyrus, as an exercise, please could you explain your Gamma Emerald townread

I iso them and I'm on my phone right now so linking the stuff would be hard but from what I see they are actually scum hunting and shorting people unlike you who is just going by meta but I also iso every one and Mia is now my 3dr suspect so when I get back on my phone I'm going to prod and pick on them till I get a reaction I can see why nk15 could be scum as well though so I'm going re read . You mia nk15 and mastina

It's very selective of you to say I'm only using meta and I think you've said it one too many times for me to just ignore you doing so

I have had significant pushes on the play of House (although this was primarily to get us out of RVS), Mia (specifically the koba head), and you. You have gone to lengths to ignore or dismiss these because they don't fit your narrative. I'm pretty sure these are the main areas of content that everybody else in the game is using to place me- so I'm fairly sure the only reason you aren't finding content there is because you don't want to.

There are 4 players about whom I have talked meta- myself, Mastina, Nancy, and you. Myself because self meta is sometimes persuasive, Mastina because people were and apparently still are scumreading Mastina for things she normally does, Nancy because you cannot separate Nancy from her meta and if you try to then she'll bring you back to that topic, and you because I think when someone is playing to such a low standard of play as to literally read someone's readslist upside down I feel inclined to look at their meta to get a better understanding of what the hell is going on there. I mainly scumread you because it's pretty damn clear to me that you started off posting looking for reasons to scumread me specifically but lack the discretion required to determine believable ones.

VOTE: Cyrus
Let's eliminate this.

I mean, cyrus was doing this stuff all along without drawing NK's suspicion...?

However, it doesn't take a genius to correctly townread me when I've put so much content into the game, and people who just ignore that are inherently more likely to be scum

As an aside, take a look at where I am on NSG's readlist

content doesn't mean crap here . i play the way i do so no one can till if im scum or town and stump or not any one can be fooled .

What the is this sentence supposed to say? It is unreadable.

It's like the rest of his posts, pretty much... but now he's "unreadable" when there was nothing suspicious before?

OK, so I was thinking NK went from townreading cyrus to voting him with zero progression, but that's not what happened.

He stated a lack of suspicion, which is not the same as a town read.

Aaaand, Moon could have flipped his shit because he thought I was jumping at an opportunity to quicklynch by exaggerating the case against him.

Fuck. I gotta reset.

VOTE: FMFT

why is voting FMFT part of your reset?

VOTE: FMFT

Not mafia
Nom
House
Gamma
Cyrus
Feys
Titus
NK15
FMFT
Jjh
Mastina

[northsidegal]

Guys, nom is scum.

Consider things here.
You
A: Consider yourself an extremely humble, yet talented player. As evidenced by you pointing out your own paragon, yet disliking to do so.
B: You case JJH as town and Nom as scum, with BARELY any sort of reasoning whatsoever. I can even remember back during my first game of mafia on this site called Haunted Village you popped in and claimed i was town without explaining the reasoning why, and yet a lot of people got cold feet and stopped pushing my wagon. You have this incredible weight behind your push and yet it's like i cannot see into your mind at all, why are your reads what they are? What do you base them on? How am i supposed to know your read on JJ or Nom is something i'd agree with when all you brought to the table with Nom was "Guys, nom is scum" and when you put them on the bottom of your unexplained readslist in your very first mention of Nom in the game. And now already a lot of players are sheeping you and calling Nom scum because you just said so. I find it incredibly odd and also wrong for a player to have this much influence and yet give so little in terms of actual analysis.

The key point that you're missing here is that I don't have any expectation that people have to follow me on my nom read. I know that I haven't really explained it. Is it now "arrogant" to just state a read?

You're just making up this ridiculous standard. I posted my readslist earlier because I figured that people would at least appreciate seeing where I was at, I didn't post it with the expectation that anyone has to follow me on anything. Again, you're just making things up and I would really appreciate if you would stop.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Haunted Village

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=81049
This gam actually^
open 768