Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)
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i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.- Mia and Maya Fey
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I’d say it depends on the player. There are some players I can actually pretty much alignment lock based off of this and others who do this sort of thing pretty much interchangeably irrespective of alignment.In post 1920, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
In a game just recently an quite good town player literally said i can’t be scum because i called another player that pushed me arrogant, and i: "only do that as town." And yeah, i was scum.In post 1883, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
Yeah nsg, that really isn’t a great argument. I am having more doubts but uh. I mean in uPick he was off the charts bleeding obvtown, so I would locktown him here if I saw that.In post 1691, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
And this is exactly why scum would do so. Every good scumgame i've had i always try to do what i know people will think: "scum!Norwee would never do this".In post 1684, northsidegal wrote:
almost nothing in mafia is about whether or not something is capable of something, it's about the probabilities. theIn post 1680, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Then i think your scumgame is just really low. As i’ve identified slots that are strong townplayers and confidently sure they would correctly townread me and done what i can to pocket them by saying: "this is obviously my towngame" when i am scum, and it’s worked like an charm. What makes JJ and i uncapable of something you cannot?In post 1667, northsidegal wrote:or i would just never so confidently declare that i'm playing my town game. furthermore, there have been games where i've made almost exactly the same comment as town: that i am unambiguously playing my towngame and that other people in the playerlist who know me should recognize this and would never vote for me.probabilitythatanytown player with somewhat distinct towngames and scumgames would make a comment like that is—in my estimation—low, for the reasons that i said there. thus, i consider it town-indicative. you aren't the same kind of player as jjh is or as i am, so i wouldn't apply the same analysis to you that i would to him. just the same way i said that moon shouldn't apply the same analysis she would to scum!RC to jjh.
I guess it makes sense for you to claim players are different, but in that case. Are you saying JJH has had the exact same playstyle in all his games up to now and never changed his strategies as scum?
Did it intentionally too.
I won’t name names but there is a player onsite - not in this game - who only says “I’m out of my scumrange” as town and I’ve seen others players who this is not ai for. Kochichi would be an excellent example of this. He has tells but they’re not at all obvious.Hydra of Nancy Drew 39(she/her) and DkKoba(they/them)- northsidegal
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for the record, i had a really long post typed up responding in-depth to 1758, but my computer crashed literally right as i was previewing it, which was disheartening to the point that i wasn't up to re-make it earlier in the day. i'm not intentionally ignoring you (just in case you think that i am), nor would i ever deliberately play to provoke or upset you, or anyone. unfortunately, i'm not getting the same feeling back from you.- NorwegianboyEE
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How am i supposed to read your takes in good faith when they lack explanation and what little they do have is unconvincing?In post 1926, northsidegal wrote:i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.- Mia and Maya Fey
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We haven’t discussed you recently. As I previously pointed out, it was moon’s theory I had the issue with. I hated your activity shade and yes I know you walked back on it but it still bugs me. Like I previously stated, I’m a lot more confident on who I don’t want to vote today than do. But I’ll be sure to pass this on to them.In post 1922, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm a bit cheesed off by koba's drunken outburst (especially calling my post asking for details about moon's theory garbage, that felt really uncalled-for) so I'm wondering what amount of that is divergent from what koba had discussed with you priorIn post 1919, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
Pretty much I think, why?In post 1891, Gamma Emerald wrote:Mia+Maya how in sync are you two atm?Hydra of Nancy Drew 39(she/her) and DkKoba(they/them)- NorwegianboyEE
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@Norwee, can you please just apologize to nsg? Clearly you hurt her feelings.In post 1929, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
How am i supposed to read your takes in good faith when they lack explanation and what little they do have is unconvincing?In post 1926, northsidegal wrote:i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.Hydra of Nancy Drew 39(she/her) and DkKoba(they/them)- NorwegianboyEE
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Yes, and i’m bringing it up as an possibility to disprove your case on JJ town as i have seen players claiming to have good read accuracy on "player" be wrong before. So why should you be right when i do not receive an better answer other than the plain one. Which is that you just know because you are experienced with JJ.In post 1923, northsidegal wrote:
do you have some information regarding JJH specifically as a player to make the claim that that is the sort of statement that scum!JJH makes, or are you making this statement based on what you yourself would do and assuming that JJH would do the same thing?In post 1921, NorwegianboyEE wrote:"I will never be eliminated because NSG is in this game!" Is practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum!JJ makes if he knows he can’t obvtown as well as usual so he finds an overly dramatic and confident way of declaring himself town to pocket NSG and hopefully stay alive regardless of his play.- Gamma Emerald
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tbf I'm also pretty frustrated in general when it comes to mafia stuff rnIn post 1930, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
We haven’t discussed you recently. As I previously pointed out, it was moon’s theory I had the issue with. I hated your activity shade and yes I know you walked back on it but it still bugs me. Like I previously stated, I’m a lot more confident on who I don’t want to vote today than do. But I’ll be sure to pass this on to them.In post 1922, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm a bit cheesed off by koba's drunken outburst (especially calling my post asking for details about moon's theory garbage, that felt really uncalled-for) so I'm wondering what amount of that is divergent from what koba had discussed with you priorIn post 1919, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
Pretty much I think, why?In post 1891, Gamma Emerald wrote:Mia+Maya how in sync are you two atm?
can you outline who you don't want to vote rn?We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
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Ok.In post 1932, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
@Norwee, can you please just apologize to nsg? Clearly you hurt her feelings.In post 1929, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
How am i supposed to read your takes in good faith when they lack explanation and what little they do have is unconvincing?In post 1926, northsidegal wrote:i am unfortunately getting the feeling that some of your play right now is being driven by spite towards me rather than primarily a good faith effort to win the game for town. this is especially unfortunate because i hold none of the same sort of animosity towards you. the things you've alleged about me have upset me a lot because they go against everything that stand for and consider important, but i hold no hatred towards you or desire to tear you down. my only wish is for you to stop making comments of that nature, and perhaps to make more of a good faith effort to really understand the points that i'm trying to get across.
Sorry NSG.- NorwegianboyEE
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Alright. So you do actually plan to share your reasoning? That’s good then.In post 1928, northsidegal wrote:for the record, i had a really long post typed up responding in-depth to 1758, but my computer crashed literally right as i was previewing it, which was disheartening to the point that i wasn't up to re-make it earlier in the day. i'm not intentionally ignoring you (just in case you think that i am), nor would i ever deliberately play to provoke or upset you, or anyone. unfortunately, i'm not getting the same feeling back from you.
If you could explain why you read Nom as scum it would be great too.- northsidegal
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nothing that i'm saying regards your tone. the points i've been making have specifically been about the hurtful things you've alleged about me, and the fact that it seems like some of your recent posting is driven more by a spite towards me than by a desire to win the game for town.In post 1931, NorwegianboyEE wrote:I feel like you’re now avoiding the answer to the questions i seek by being overly pre-occupied with my tone when i only really seek the answer to the questions i’ve asked and though my tone may be rough it usually is when i’m heavily engaged in a game of mafia.
it's a little difficult to reconcile your saying that you believe players can be sorted by meta with the things that you're saying here. the fact that some players that have claimed to have good accuracy on a player have been wrong in the past is—absent any other compelling evidence—not really strong evidence to doubt any individual claim, unless you just wholesale don't believe in meta sorting people.In post 1933, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Yes, and i’m bringing it up as an possibility to disprove your case on JJ town as i have seen players claiming to have good read accuracy on "player" be wrong before. So why should you be right when i do not receive an better answer other than the plain one. Which is that you just know because you are experienced with JJ.In post 1923, northsidegal wrote:
do you have some information regarding JJH specifically as a player to make the claim that that is the sort of statement that scum!JJH makes, or are you making this statement based on what you yourself would do and assuming that JJH would do the same thing?In post 1921, NorwegianboyEE wrote:"I will never be eliminated because NSG is in this game!" Is practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum!JJ makes if he knows he can’t obvtown as well as usual so he finds an overly dramatic and confident way of declaring himself town to pocket NSG and hopefully stay alive regardless of his play.
i'm going to re-ask my question, because i'm not sure that i really see a clear answer to it here. you made the claim that what JJH said is "practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum~JJ makes if...". the question i'm asking is this: do you have somespecificinformation about JJH as a player that leads to you making this claim? or is this statement based primarily off of your own scumplay and the belief that JJH would do something similar?- NorwegianboyEE
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cyrus, house, mastina, probably titus, nm, maybe tea?In post 1934, Gamma Emerald wrote:
tbf I'm also pretty frustrated in general when it comes to mafia stuff rnIn post 1930, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
We haven’t discussed you recently. As I previously pointed out, it was moon’s theory I had the issue with. I hated your activity shade and yes I know you walked back on it but it still bugs me. Like I previously stated, I’m a lot more confident on who I don’t want to vote today than do. But I’ll be sure to pass this on to them.In post 1922, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm a bit cheesed off by koba's drunken outburst (especially calling my post asking for details about moon's theory garbage, that felt really uncalled-for) so I'm wondering what amount of that is divergent from what koba had discussed with you priorIn post 1919, Mia and Maya Fey wrote:
Pretty much I think, why?In post 1891, Gamma Emerald wrote:Mia+Maya how in sync are you two atm?
can you outline who you don't want to vote rn?
NK15, nom and moon are currently worrying me the most now. I’m still extremely paranoid about jjh and worry I’m being snowed. The activity thing from both you and nom really pinged me especially from you but the rest of your posts seem to be out of your scumrange so I don’t know. Norwee’s case on jjh is making me rethink a lot of things though, not just him.Hydra of Nancy Drew 39(she/her) and DkKoba(they/them)- northsidegal
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i don't know whether or not you do. what i've been saying is that, based on the things you've been posting, that explanation seems to primarily fit the evidence better than other explanations.In post 1938, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Your claim that i feel spite towards you is wrong.
i am glad to hear from you that you don't, but really what i care about is the evidence—that is, the posting—shifting to match that claim.- NorwegianboyEE
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It’s based on what i think JJ would be doing if he rolled scum and tries to win the game as scum.In post 1937, northsidegal wrote:i'm going to re-ask my question, because i'm not sure that i really see a clear answer to it here. you made the claim that what JJH said is "practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum~JJ makes if...". the question i'm asking is this: do you have some specific information about JJH as a player that leads to you making this claim? or is this statement based primarily off of your own scumplay and the belief that JJH would do something similar?
I don’t have a lot of experience with JJ so i could be wrong but i would like to see an reason for why they should be read as town if i were to change my read to town on them.- NorwegianboyEE
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So I pretty much included every post that constitutes an interaction between nom and moon, but not all will have thoughts given. Just giving notice beforehand.Spoiler: moon and nom interaction posts
So overall I think even on his own nom looks somewhat towny, and moongrass potentially being town I don't think detracts from that. And if moon is scum nom is practically conftown for me.We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
Visit mynewGTKAS page here!- Gamma Emerald
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Part of me feels like I could have done more on that but knowing myself the sooner I got that done the betterWe're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
Visit mynewGTKAS page here!- NorwegianboyEE
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Normalcy is for nerds.In post 1874, Titus wrote:P.S. i'm not normal.- NorwegianboyEE
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Okay. What would you say if I told you that—in my experience—players who have fairly distinct town and scum games don't tend to make comments like this? If I told you that, given that me and JJH are relatively similar players in terms of how we've been pushed as scum and given that I think our reactions would be somewhat similar, I think that the fact that I would never say what he said as scum is weak evidence that he also wouldn't? If I told you that, based on myIn post 1941, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
It’s based on what i think JJ would be doing if he rolled scum and tries to win the game as scum.In post 1937, northsidegal wrote:i'm going to re-ask my question, because i'm not sure that i really see a clear answer to it here. you made the claim that what JJH said is "practically an example of the sort of WIFOMY statement scum~JJ makes if...". the question i'm asking is this: do you have some specific information about JJH as a player that leads to you making this claim? or is this statement based primarily off of your own scumplay and the belief that JJH would do something similar?personalevaluation of how JJH plays as town and as scum, he is not the kind of person who would employ the strategy that you described as scum, but is the kind of person who would have a high degree of confidence that his towngame shines through when he is town?
The sort of strategy that you're alleging that scum!JJH employed here is one that a certain style of scum player might employ. I do not think that JJH is that style of scum player. Just as I told moon earlier, scum!RC might say something like that, but almost nobody plays scum like RC does, so it doesn't make sense to apply tells based around RC to players who don't play like him. I understand that it might be sort of unsatisfying to just hear me say that "JJH isn't that kind of player", but I genuinely don't know how I could explain that at a lower level. If I could, I would be doing it. - northsidegal
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