Mini Normal 2216 | Screaming | Post-game!

[humaneatingmonkey]

i really dont like liars cyrus so can you please promise me that the role is real

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you promise me i will shut up

[Seanzie]

i dont know i think cyrus is telling the truth!

I do agree that I think the role is real.

[cyrus62]

See im just. Makeing matters worse. If you want to lynch i or go for it . Now that they claimed scum will most likely kill them any way. Just saying.


Edit.I cannot promise that the role is real.

[humaneatingmonkey]

See im just. Makeing matters worse. If you want to lynch i or go for it . Now that they claimed scum will most likely kill them any way. Just saying.

worse for who, cyrus?

[cyrus62]

Ment a pr sorry phone fixes everything.

[humaneatingmonkey]

oh no!

[humaneatingmonkey]

i really hate it when my phone does that

[cyrus62]

See im just. Makeing matters worse. If you want to lynch i or go for it . Now that they claimed scum will most likely kill them any way. Just saying.

worse for who, cyrus?

town and poor box.

[humaneatingmonkey]

are you sad for box, cyrus

[cyrus62]

Like I said I buy boxs story. Your looking scummy. But if you want to lynch box go ahead but if they flip town pr. Don't blame me.

[humaneatingmonkey]

why am i scummy cyrus? im trying to talk to you because i want to believe box

[humaneatingmonkey]

i dont want to lynch town pr

[cyrus62]

are you sad for box, cyrus

yes cause no one believes him even when he's telling the truth.

[cyrus62]

i dont want to lynch town pr

Then don't. Earth to box it's not my place to defend you. Prove to them your not lieing

[humaneatingmonkey]

okay so if it's not box who would you vote for? who is scum? i want to follow you

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Lol, okay, well that doesn't jive with my self-perception at all, so ssbm_Kyouko, please explain how you can describe me as iioa? I asked for townreads and thoughts quite often, that is true, but also at the time I was by far the most outspoken about reads and analysis. I actually almost lost interest in the game early on because of how hard I had to push for anyone to give me anything to bounce ideas off of.

Iioa can be recapping but it can be other things too i.e. posting about mechanics or ideal strategy to make it feel like you are contributing when you're not.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

How?

Well like, the whole premise of the game of mafia is that if town works together, they can create collective reads that are >rand. The longer we wait to start giving reads and working together, the less time we have to sort through those reads and land on a solid collective PoE.

Also, in my experience, the start of the game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum. Getting started D1 as scum is very difficult for many people, whereas once you've gotten started in the thread, it is usually easier to maintain that. So waiting around, letting everyone get super comfy before you start actually playing is just missing an opportunity to catch scum at the gate.

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

It really felt like it was more than these 3 at the time I posted that, but I see no others.

[cyrus62]

I need to wait till tomorrow when I'm back at my pc.

[humaneatingmonkey]

at the top of your head, no need for cases, cyrus. who do you think is most likely to be scum if it's not box?

[Seanzie]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Lol, okay, well that doesn't jive with my self-perception at all, so ssbm_Kyouko, please explain how you can describe me as iioa? I asked for townreads and thoughts quite often, that is true, but also at the time I was by far the most outspoken about reads and analysis. I actually almost lost interest in the game early on because of how hard I had to push for anyone to give me anything to bounce ideas off of.

Iioa can be recapping but it can be other things too i.e. posting about mechanics or ideal strategy to make it feel like you are contributing when you're not.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

How?

Well like, the whole premise of the game of mafia is that if town works together, they can create collective reads that are >rand. The longer we wait to start giving reads and working together, the less time we have to sort through those reads and land on a solid collective PoE.

Also, in my experience, the start of the game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum. Getting started D1 as scum is very difficult for many people, whereas once you've gotten started in the thread, it is usually easier to maintain that. So waiting around, letting everyone get super comfy before you start actually playing is just missing an opportunity to catch scum at the gate.

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

It really felt like it was more than these 3 at the time I posted that, but I see no others.

And among those three posts, how much analysis do you see?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw nom I did not address the cyrus slip earlier - I dont think it's silly to see that as a scumtell but I'm not sure it's a slip here. I have caught scum on that tell before (recently, but couldn't convince town to lim him) but I don't believe you were in a position where cyrus would try to parrot you specifically in order to gain a TR from you. I'm also not sure he's actually parroting you there.

[cyrus62]

at the top of your head, no need for cases, cyrus. who do you think is most likely to be scum if it's not box?

Sean is my top my scum read.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also feels like a lot of iioa throughout, and an unusual fixation on getting a sense of where everyone's townreads are, which could be nai but here feels more like trying to map the topography and get a strategic push in at a later time

This is about you Sean

What does iioa mean?

The other point is fair. Ftr it is more that I am much more of a scumreader than a townreader, and am actively working on my towncore-game.

Information instead of analysis. Basically recapping the game without sharing thoughts.

Lol, okay, well that doesn't jive with my self-perception at all, so ssbm_Kyouko, please explain how you can describe me as iioa? I asked for townreads and thoughts quite often, that is true, but also at the time I was by far the most outspoken about reads and analysis. I actually almost lost interest in the game early on because of how hard I had to push for anyone to give me anything to bounce ideas off of.

Iioa can be recapping but it can be other things too i.e. posting about mechanics or ideal strategy to make it feel like you are contributing when you're not.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

Still waiting to hear townreads from people.

its only page 5 we are still waiting for everyone to post before we give reads. at least i am not everyone is so quick to find scum on page 1.

Waiting to give reads only slows down town and benefits scum.

How?

Well like, the whole premise of the game of mafia is that if town works together, they can create collective reads that are >rand. The longer we wait to start giving reads and working together, the less time we have to sort through those reads and land on a solid collective PoE.

Also, in my experience, the start of the game is one of the most vulnerable times for scum. Getting started D1 as scum is very difficult for many people, whereas once you've gotten started in the thread, it is usually easier to maintain that. So waiting around, letting everyone get super comfy before you start actually playing is just missing an opportunity to catch scum at the gate.

It overwhelmed the rest of the thread in a way that reduced the ability for others to interact and give input and limited the free formation of reads.

are you not free to form your reads? is the formation of reads not free enough?

Do you know about threadhealth?

It really felt like it was more than these 3 at the time I posted that, but I see no others.

And among those three posts, how much analysis do you see?

one post that brought something new to the table which imo turned out to be objectively wrong. That being post 380

Boxxy's posts aren't good. TL;DR

Boxxy is positioning himself to be the town's lord and savior from these anti-town scrubs and he's gonna scumhunt the scum to infinity and beyond. I read this as scum who's trying to score towncred. This is not how town actually score towncred. Town score towncred by making an effort in actually sorting slots. But in fact, he's done the opposite — he's reading into things very superficially and focuses much more on keeping the 'tegridy of muh tuhwn.

Corroborating evidence: #200 (and my comment #208)

He also did this:
> Seanzie is dishonest
> votes nomnomnom for "anti-town behavior"
Reference: #222

He also did this:
>monkey is anti-town and should be lynched
>hahaha i was just saying that just in case!
Reference: #149 → #151 → #172 → #222 (the first part)

That's just my complaint. There's a lot of tickets from noms and Salsabil too.

While I appreciate the decorative language here, this is overstated.

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

Boxxy's vote on Nom in this post also looks very reasonable to me because Nom is being super shady with this "I have a reason, but I'm not going to share" thing.

Now that I'm looking at it though, I REALLY don't like how Monkey conflated two clearly unrelated parts of Boxxy's post here. Boxxy's post is clearly two posts in 1, but Monkey is acting like it is one post. Monkey didn't actually explain what is wrong with those two bulletpoints he provided, but it is clear the reader would read those two bulletpoints as "Boxxy is shading Sean, but voting Nom in the same post", but this just isn't how that post actually reads. It is two separate posts, one where Boxxy responds to my townread of ssbm_Kyouko in a reasonable way, and another where Boxxy places a vote on Nom for reasons I agree with. This point is not worthy of a scumread on Boxxy IMO.

Boxxy's progression in the quoted posts:

#149: Monkey is a scumread.

#151: trolling is anti-town.

#172: Anti-town is more likely to flip scum. I don't like trolls.

#222: I didn't vote Monkey, but I said I support a policy elim on them.

The only post there that pings me is #222 because Boxxy never said anything about a policy elim earlier. The rest is fine.

Conclusion: There is something to be pinged about Boxxy here, but this is not rush!elim worthy IMO.

I also worry about Monkey here, the way the case is presented is somewhat disingenuous, and you really need to check all references to see it. I know sometimes I make these sorts of cases as town, so idk if this is AI necessarily, but I will definitely be checking all of Monkey's progressions and cases carefully in the future to make sure I agree with Monkey's conclusions (or implied conclusions because they are missing from the posts).

Especially without the links, that makes it hard to check Monkey's work here

.

The bolded made me go back and reread all the referenced posts, which was rather inconvenient on mobile, and I came to the conclusion that you were wrong in your interpretation. You were right that it is hard to "check his work", but that is the extent to which you were right.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You also post a lot of superficial questions and seem to not be concerned about whether or not they are answered, and 389 is very grandstandy and waffley at the same time. The language is that of scum that is worried about stepping too much on powertown toes while trying to gain towncred for putting their foot down and standing up for the little guy.

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

So if he thought you were possibly dishonest (possibly scummy, in this game where you're trying to catch liars), why wouldn't he have voted you

and

instead voted someone who he thought was anti-town?

If his "anti-town is scum" reads were only as shallow that immediately he can write it off as a town-lean, why would he vote an anti-town player vs someone who he thought was

actually dishonest?

You are completely disregarding Boxxy's clear hesitation about me being "possibly dishonest" here. You're either tunneling at this point, or deliberately trying to dishonestly bury Boxxy.

Boxxy had multiple posts that build up to the vote on Nom. Again, Nom's "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, but I'm not going to say it unitl after we elim him" was super shady, and Boxxy has clear progression here that you're ignoring. Can you tell me where he said that Nom is JUST anti-town like you're saying? Because anyone who actually reads will see that Boxxy was pushing Nom about this in a way that suggests a scumread.

You've now pushed Boxxy's read to "actually dishonest". That isn't what he said, and ignores all nuance of the situation. You're misrepping here. Please stop.

Sorry, putting my foot down

. I don't even have strong opinions about Boxxy right now, but Monkey's case is BAD, so I feel like I need to defend Boxxy.

Monkey, please stop misrepping, please don't oversimplify. Please stop removing parts of posts that are relevant to what you're quoting as well to tell a narrative that isn't there. You're either full on conf-biasing right now or trying to powerwolf,

and I won't stand for either

.

[Seanzie]

You also post a lot of superficial questions and seem to not be concerned about whether or not they are answered, and 389 is very grandstandy and waffley at the same time. The language is that of scum that is worried about stepping too much on powertown toes while trying to gain towncred for putting their foot down and standing up for the little guy.

Spoiler:

This is an oversimplication of that post. Boxxy said I was reaching, and possibly dishonest. I don't think this is bad from Boxxy since while I had townread ssbm_Kyouko's response to Boxxy's scumread of Monkey, I didn't actually think Boxxy having that scumread was AI, simply that I liked ssbm_Kyouko's thoughts. From Boxxy's perspective, I think them thinking that was reaching and possibly dishonest is reasonable.

So if he thought you were possibly dishonest (possibly scummy, in this game where you're trying to catch liars), why wouldn't he have voted you

and

instead voted someone who he thought was anti-town?

If his "anti-town is scum" reads were only as shallow that immediately he can write it off as a town-lean, why would he vote an anti-town player vs someone who he thought was

actually dishonest?

You are completely disregarding Boxxy's clear hesitation about me being "possibly dishonest" here. You're either tunneling at this point, or deliberately trying to dishonestly bury Boxxy.

Boxxy had multiple posts that build up to the vote on Nom. Again, Nom's "I have a scumtell on Cyrus, but I'm not going to say it unitl after we elim him" was super shady, and Boxxy has clear progression here that you're ignoring. Can you tell me where he said that Nom is JUST anti-town like you're saying? Because anyone who actually reads will see that Boxxy was pushing Nom about this in a way that suggests a scumread.

You've now pushed Boxxy's read to "actually dishonest". That isn't what he said, and ignores all nuance of the situation. You're misrepping here. Please stop.

Sorry, putting my foot down

. I don't even have strong opinions about Boxxy right now, but Monkey's case is BAD, so I feel like I need to defend Boxxy.

Monkey, please stop misrepping, please don't oversimplify. Please stop removing parts of posts that are relevant to what you're quoting as well to tell a narrative that isn't there. You're either full on conf-biasing right now or trying to powerwolf,

and I won't stand for either

.

Do you think Boxxy will flip mafia or town?