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[Dwlee99]

It really is feeling like you're trying to force a scumread here. Why?

[petapan]

what's wrong with changing his approach because someone claimed a clear on someone he suspected

like, yes, he could do it as scum but town would obviously want to change approach too?

[Andresvmb]

Andre, given that there was no "fight" between T3 and I, do you still think at least one of us is evil?

Look here’s what I’m trying to do, maybe it helps you understand where I’m coming from. There’s clearly some strategic defending of slots going on here. You are strongly defending Anya, pushing T3. Titus is basically doing the exact opposite. You also think Titus is Scum. Titus is being strongly TR by two players you were previously pushing in DotW, DGB, who now have essentially locked themselves into a pair that either is Scum or the Scum will have to penetrate (I’m guessing the latter). So concluding that {Anya, T3} contains one Scum for example, or {Titus, You} have one Scum, or that peta could be aligned with say you and Anya, doesn’t seem that preposterous to me. The hard thing here from where I stand is to spot a weak point in the Scum Team and have the rest of the dominoes fall correctly. There’s also some White Knighting going on I’m sure. And Scum could be sitting on opposite sides of the argument on purpose. But surely there’s some Scum in here given how much you all are attacking each other.

And DW, your reaction to my SR of you is horrendous. Not going to lie. Gives me massive pings. You completely flipped on how you were approaching me (and now seem to want to appease me) even though I’ve been posting just like I was before, though maybe more frequently.

I am sure I have some stuff wrong here. I always do. But my radar isn’t that off either.

[Andresvmb]

And by strongly defending you aren’t all doing this explicitly. But by directing attention away from a slot attracting a lot of votes, Titus for example is doing it by default. They might not directly say I think T3 is Town, but pushing a CW strongly certainly achieves the same objective. T3 is notoriously hard to read anyway. And the Scum do seem to be pushing some of the harder to read slots here (Dunn, now maybe T3?).

[Dwlee99]

I think that your pairings are dumb and I think that the way you talk to me doesn't feel like you actually scumread me here otherwise you wouldn't be phrasing things like you're trying to tell me you didn't like the color palette I chose on a presentation.

[Andresvmb]

Why isn't Anya happening today? That claim reeks of being coached and flubbed.

WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

Like this expresses a level of certainty that I’m always suspicious of. I have yet to find a player in this entire forum I think is like consistently right as Town, outside of like a few players I won’t name. There aren’t any here. petapan has already demonstrated that they don’t have the best reads. If they do, then please let me know and we should execute there because they were horribly wrong about Nero and they can’t say that some folks didn’t hint at it. I directly told peta they were coming in too hot and were probably wrong about Nero. Go find it.

[Dwlee99]

And DW, the colors you chose are horrendous. Not going to lie. Gives me a bit of a headache.

[Andresvmb]

I think that your pairings are dumb and I think that the way you talk to me doesn't feel like you actually scumread me here otherwise you wouldn't be phrasing things like you're trying to tell me you didn't like the color palette I chose on a presentation.

You clearly haven’t played with me. I do sometimes go really hard against a SR, but only when I think it’s obvious. Ask T3. Otherwise, I avoid it. I think I’m decent, but I certainly don’t think I’m infallible. I always try and figure out what’s happening. But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

[Andresvmb]

Ah actually, maybe osuka on a good day. Which is why I asked them to provide their thoughts. But they haven’t really tried to solve too hard and I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

[Dwlee99]

You completely flipped on how you were approaching me (and now seem to want to appease me) even though I’ve been posting just like I was before, though maybe more frequently.

When are you talking about this happening? When you stopped lurking or after your scumread of me?

[Dwlee99]

But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

I'm not even claiming I have a great handle on the game and I'm not trying to offend either. I think the concept of "one of {Anya, Titus} has to be scum" is just wrong in a game like this. If there was some TvS interaction I could understand but you're essentially doing the scumread version of sloppy vote count analysis. ("Well, I think that this many scum are on this wagon sooo kill this person")

[Andresvmb]

@DW I’m still reading. It’s not the easiest game to read back to front. But I do think you’re Town if that helps.

UNVOTE:
Okay Andre you have my attention

If your read of me here was genuine, I think you would have pushed me here. Like if you had thought I was Scum trying to pocket you or that it was me trying to defuse tension between us, I think you express it or keep your vote on me. Instead, you tacitly agree to stop engaging.

[Dragon of the West]

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

Can you point me to this please?

For the record I

didn't

claim I had a

cop

inno. I said I can confirm DGB as town-aligned

[Titus]

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

Can you point me to this please?

For the record I

didn't

claim I had a

cop

inno. I said I can confirm DGB as town-aligned

I get this. I'll say nothing further.

[Andresvmb]

I'm still leaning towards scum with that claim though.

Why? I think it would be weird for scum to go no actions done -> no result. Voyeur is also a weird role for scum to have.

The way DotW is looking to shade Anya is so bizarre I would absolutely blow it up.

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

In case people ever need to come back to this to solve the game, I can only confirm DGB and myself as town. Titus is just a read right now

I interpreted this an inno result @andre

Not to come off as OMGUS but Andre's sudden read change on me is terribad. He was on those pages agreeing with my reads and now he is going back and trying to say I'm scum for probably being wrong on DGB + DotW on a reread. It also reeks of T3 counterwagon.

And look at this progression here. You’re obviously going from engaging me and trying to help me develop a read to pushing me because my read of you changed. But why couldn’t my switch be genuine? You’re pairing ME with T3 when I was happy to wagon there and push them to the brink, why because I decided to jump on you? Unless Anya / T3 are both Scum AND my Scum Partners (a stretch yes?), why don’t I just push the CW to start?

[Titus]

Ah actually, maybe osuka on a good day. Which is why I asked them to provide their thoughts. But they haven’t really tried to solve too hard and I’m somewhat skeptical there still.

Osaka might be scum. They might have site flaked.

[Titus]

I'm starting to like Andres as town here.

[Titus]

mod: Can we get osaka a prod and if four hours pass from this post, a prod on Rathe?

[Andresvmb]

But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

I'm not even claiming I have a great handle on the game and I'm not trying to offend either. I think the concept of "one of {Anya, Titus} has to be scum" is just wrong in a game like this. If there was some TvS interaction I could understand but you're essentially doing the scumread version of sloppy vote count analysis. ("Well, I think that this many scum are on this wagon sooo kill this person")

I think you’re intentionally trying to discount my analysis here. I’m basically saying I think some of these arguments are either TvT or TVS. I SR some of you, so I’m thinking some of this is TvS. The phrasing might be different but that’s exactly what I mean. And what vote count analysis? I’m basing this entirely of the strength of the arguments you are making.

[Andresvmb]

^all of you are making*

[petapan]

Why isn't Anya happening today? That claim reeks of being coached and flubbed.

WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

Like this expresses a level of certainty that I’m always suspicious of. I have yet to find a player in this entire forum I think is like consistently right as Town, outside of like a few players I won’t name. There aren’t any here. petapan has already demonstrated that they don’t have the best reads. If they do, then please let me know and we should execute there because they were horribly wrong about Nero and they can’t say that some folks didn’t hint at it. I directly told peta they were coming in too hot and were probably wrong about Nero. Go find it.

dude i don't care if i wrongly tunnel early d1

d1 read rate is one of the most overrated skills in mafia games

i regretted my approach day 1 moreso for the fact that it wasted much time in conflict with someone largely based on not understanding how the other plays

but rather than that you can look at the posts where i explain my actual reasoning for why i think there is scum motivation behind the push from titus and decide if you find it believable or not

[petapan]

I'm starting to like Andres as town here.

wonder why

[Dwlee99]

Guess your thing was {Anya, T3} which makes even less sense honestly. I don't even think those slots have interacted so claiming there is definitely a scum in there doesn't feel based in anything.

@DW I’m still reading. It’s not the easiest game to read back to front. But I do think you’re Town if that helps.

UNVOTE:
Okay Andre you have my attention

If your read of me here was genuine, I think you would have pushed me here. Like if you had thought I was Scum trying to pocket you or that it was me trying to defuse tension between us, I think you express it or keep your vote on me. Instead, you tacitly agree to stop engaging.

I stopped pushing you because I found your posts good. My scumread on you before was basically PoE on lurkers

I'm still leaning towards scum with that claim though.

Why? I think it would be weird for scum to go no actions done -> no result. Voyeur is also a weird role for scum to have.

The way DotW is looking to shade Anya is so bizarre I would absolutely blow it up.

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

In case people ever need to come back to this to solve the game, I can only confirm DGB and myself as town. Titus is just a read right now

I interpreted this an inno result @andre

Not to come off as OMGUS but Andre's sudden read change on me is terribad. He was on those pages agreeing with my reads and now he is going back and trying to say I'm scum for probably being wrong on DGB + DotW on a reread. It also reeks of T3 counterwagon.

And look at this progression here. You’re obviously going from engaging me and trying to help me develop a read to pushing me because my read of you changed. But why couldn’t my switch be genuine? You’re pairing ME with T3 when I was happy to wagon there and push them to the brink, why because I decided to jump on you? Unless Anya / T3 are both Scum AND my Scum Partners (a stretch yes?), why don’t I just push the CW to start?

If you read my posts to Titus I'm not pairing you with anyone. It isn't just that your read on me changed, it is that your read on me changed for terrible and what feels like forced reasons. You were given refutation of major parts of your reasoning and then just BS'd more.

But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

I'm not even claiming I have a great handle on the game and I'm not trying to offend either. I think the concept of "one of {Anya, Titus} has to be scum" is just wrong in a game like this. If there was some TvS interaction I could understand but you're essentially doing the scumread version of sloppy vote count analysis. ("Well, I think that this many scum are on this wagon sooo kill this person")

I think you’re intentionally trying to discount my analysis here. I’m basically saying I think some of these arguments are either TvT or TVS. I SR some of you, so I’m thinking some of this is TvS. The phrasing might be different but that’s exactly what I mean. And what vote count analysis? I’m basing this entirely of the strength of the arguments you are making.

I was making analogy to VCA. Sure, some of them are probably TvS but which ones and why? You made it seem like you think all of the pairings you named have at least one scum in them, not that one of the pairings has one scum which is meaningless because of how mathematically certain it is correct.

[Andresvmb]

d1 read rate is one of the most overrated skills in mafia games

Funny enough, I agree. You know what isn’t though? Making yourself obvious Town. You most certainly haven’t achieved that here. And by trying to present so much strength behind some of your arguments, I think you come across worse.

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Titus

I'm cool with a Titus wagon if one would like to get off the ground. I was asked for a readlist before, I feel like I have enough of a handle on the game now to make one.

{peta, Dwlee, DotW, DGB}
{STD, rathe}
{Anya, VFP, Andres, Kyouko}
{osuka, Vax}
{T3, Titus}

I'm swamped at work, but I'll be in front of a computer if someone wants me to go into detail on any of these.