Mini Normal 2216 | Screaming | Post-game!

[Seanzie]

I read through most people's ISOS to help me sort them, and this is what I came up with:

humaneatingmonkey

Kerset
nomnomnom

Dwlee99

Bambi Jay

MaxTheFox
T3
Salsabil Faria

boxxy
Almost50

Seanzie

[Seanzie]

Quick post before bed after catching up, just to answer a few questions thrown my way.

As T3 mentioned I am fairly new, I played a few games years ago, and just got back into it with a game a week or so again.

I chose seanzie for my target because I was fairly confident cyrus had be bussed, so I picked a more or less random choice from that wagon. Nom/HEM's push felt organic, the rest of the wagon didn't have much content except seanzie who had parked his vote there early and never returned. I didn't have the

@Seanzie what do you want me to explain, that whole post is explanation. I can outline it again tomorrow in more detail if you don't follow or if you have any specific questions please share.

Specifically how you thought I was bussing. Like, was your theory that Cyrus was a planned bus since post 1? Usually bussers jump on nearish the end of a wagon and push loud and hard to get as much towncred as possible. I was first on the wagon and was afk when Cyrus got hammered.

[Kerset]

I don't see why neither nom or hem got killed. They controlled two insta wagons on d1. Scum either wanted them to push box today or one of them is scum and pocketed the other.

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 30

Seanzie did not kill another player.

How exactly the mod sent you the night result? The wording in your sentence seems off.

so now that thats done as i said boxy isnt lieing. so check monkey to see why he wanted to lynch a pr.

i wouldn't lynch nom they anit scum regardless

pushing boxxy is a bad idea move on. im sure you guys can do it.

fatia isnt scum trust me.

It's WIFOM-y, but I don't cyrus puts attention on his scumteam on his way out the door here. Knowing what these posts will look like after he flips, I see him doing a basic play of trying to put attention on some random town players. I'm willing to think these players are town for the time being.

The way he went from

scumleaning

on me (refused continuously to give the reason) to

hard townreading

me before the slip and

ssbm_Kyouko

was killed at night who had strong sus about me and him.... it's a plan to set me up.

I also think that with cyrus drawing the attention he was, scum would bus to build a bit of towncred. That's why I targetted seanzie last night.

But he was 1st to vote

cyrus62

! How scum!him would know that between 24 hours

cyrus62

will be caught?? Plus the interection between him and

cyrus62

seems real to me. I still don't get why do you checked him.

cyrus62 (7): Seanzie, Salsabil Faria, Almost50, nomnomnom, humaneatingmonkey, cyrus62, Dwlee99 | EXECUTED

Reading Dwlee99 in iso, I don't like it. He seems a little too agreeable in how he joins up with powertown monkey/nom.

Goes from really liking my play

let's do boxxy guys. it's a good wagon

This is a super weird take?

I've liked boxxy's posting a lot.

I'm still trying to figure out nom though. I don't know if nom withholding the tell is inherently scummy but I'd really like to hear it if it's going to be justifying a scum read this early especially when it feels like cyrus town-slipped.

To joining the wagon once it had momentum but the content had not changed.

Okay, I've read over that interaction and I see what you're talking about now. I wish boxxy was here to respond and give some updates but I feel like him not is kind of by his own design.

VOTE: boxxy

Finally he hammers cyrus once it was a foregone conclusion. It just feels a bit too much like trying not to be objectionable and make friends with powertown.

VOTE: Dwlee99

Why didn't you check

Dwlee99

then?

VOTE: boxxy

Seanzie so sus

What do you think about

Seanzie

's interaction with

cyrus62

?

[Kerset]

T3 can you try a bit harder?

[Kerset]

@salsa quite normal, just like others

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 31

Still reading obviously but since I'm past the claim and the explanation, checking sus people like Seanzie night 1 is the worst play? Like... Roaming Detective would hold off checking sus people the first few nights period since you can never check them again.

Town would've just not checked anyone to save up. Early checks on early scumreads are a detriment to that role.

I'm failing to see why

Seanzie

is scum + according to

boxxy

,

Dwlee99

is sus to him, then why not check him??

Spoiler:

Official Vote Count 1.01

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

Seanzie (3): nomnomnom, Salsabil Faria, cyrus62
T3 (1): boxxy
Almost50 (1): Dwlee99
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (7): T3, Almost50, Rathe, MaxTheFox, Seanzie, ssbm_Kyouko, humaneatingmonkey

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes: Salsabil Faria is fine to continue using that colour if they wish, this will be rescinded if people begin confusing their communication with mine. As a side-note, the rules have a different shade of teal because I actually used the color picker to make them but for all other situations I just write

and it's a different shade.

Time remaining for last confirmations: (expired on 2021-06-15 18:51:11)

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.02

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

cyrus62 (3): Seanzie, nomnomnom, boxxy
Seanzie (2): Salsabil Faria, T3
Salsabil Faria (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Almost50 (1): Dwlee99
humaneatingmonkey (1): cyrus62
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (4): Rathe, MaxTheFox, humaneatingmonkey, Almost50

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes: Time remaining for last confirmations: (expired on 2021-06-15 18:51:11)

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.03

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

boxxy (3): humaneatingmonkey, nomnomnom, Salsabil Faria
nomnomnom (2): Kerset, boxxy
Salsabil Faria (1): ssbm_Kyouko
Almost50 (1): Dwlee99
Seanzie (1): T3
cyrus62 (1): Seanzie
humaneatingmonkey (1): cyrus62


Not Voting (3): Almost50, Rathe, MaxTheFox,

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes: Time remaining for last confirmations: (expired on 2021-06-15 18:51:11)

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.04

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

boxxy (5): nomnomnom, Salsabil Faria, Dwlee99, T3, cyrus62 | E-2
Salsabil Faria (1): ssbm_Kyouko
cyrus62 (1): Seanzie
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (5): Almost50, Rathe, MaxTheFox, boxxy, humaneatingmonkey

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes: Time remaining for last confirmations: (expired on 2021-06-15 18:51:11)

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.05

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

cyrus62 (2): Seanize, Salsabil Faria
Seanzie (1): ssbm_Kyouko
boxxy (1): nomnomnom
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (8): T3, Almost50, Rathe, MaxTheFox, boxxy, humaneatingmonkey, Dwlee99, cyrus62

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes:

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.06

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

cyrus62 (5): Seanzie, Salasbil Faria, Almost50, nomnomnom, humaneatingmonkey | E-2
Seanzie (1): ssbm_Kyouko
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (6): T3, Rathe, MaxTheFox, boxxy, cyrus62, Dwlee99

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes:

[/area]

Official Vote Count 1.07

---

elimination

With 13 votes in play it takes 7 to eliminate a player

cyrus62 (7): Seanzie, Salsabil Faria, Almost50, nomnomnom, humaneatingmonkey, cyrus62, Dwlee99 | EXECUTED
Seanzie (1): ssbm_Kyouko
nomnomnom (1): Kerset

Not Voting (4): T3, Rathe, MaxTheFox, boxxy

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-06-21 12:05:50).

Mod notes:

[/area]

Has boxxy's result really affected your reads on Seanzie here? Exactly.

no but the NKA did

How?

The "meta" is to mix one buddy with 2 townies (dubbed 1 of 3). I would have checked nom if I was you

Why him? He is my strong townread atp.

I thought Cyrus townslipped but I think he just didn't know what to do as scum.

That indicates his scumteam was not there to support him or he lost motivation as scum.

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 32

Exam has finished but brain is stopped working (had total 8 hours of sleep in last 2 days ), will post tomorrow.

At least be thankful we ended the day in time for you to get them 8 hours of sleep.

in 2 days

I thought about nom, but I'm not convinced he bussed cyrus that early day 1. I'm waiting to see what he says today.

Meanwhile, boxxy described nom and I as powertown.

Reading Dwlee99 in iso, I don't like it. He seems a little too agreeable in how he joins up with powertown monkey/nom.

So if he's really reading the game this way, why would he think about targeting nom and what is he waiting from nom today? the answer is it's all lies.

True.

Here's a slip Dwlee, I got a guilty on Nom but ain't gonna do anything with it today since I'd rather have fun this way instead.

huh

The joys of playing a PR. Everyone has an opinion on what you should have done, but nobody is willing to share them until after the fact.

1- You're assuming I/we

knew

cyrus' flip beforehand.
2- It's not a good idea to announce who you're checking beforehand.

I thought about nom, but I'm not convinced he bussed cyrus that early day 1. I'm waiting to see what he says today.

But you did check Seanzie who basically did the same thing, except he was first to actually vote there (aside from Salsabil's RVS)


Check this out:

Non fluff though, current reads:

Cyrus - wolf

Everyone else who has posted thus far - Town

Does this really strike you as a post coming from a scum partner??

VOTE: Cyrus62

And this was as early as Seanzie acted on his scum read

^This.

If you've caught scum, you've caught scum. No need to play around.

VOTE: nom

Why the hesitation monkey? Trying to see if there's a way to get your scumpartner out of this? I actually wouldn't be surprised if monkey/nom are trying to fake powertown.

Leaving me alive last night makes sense, if they felt they discredited me pretty strongly during the day they can use me as the mis-elim.

So you're telling scum!them were bussing their another partner on day 1 (a.k.a in 24 hours)???

I'm not sure boxxy meant you

ask him

Why should I? You're the one publicly pushing a narrative, so YOU ask him.

Reading Dwlee99 in iso, I don't like it. He seems a little too agreeable in how he joins up with powertown monkey/nom.

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 33

Weirder stuff has happened on this site. Plus a kill on me would garuntee his guilty. It's not complicated.

Bambi Jay, who I have zero reasons to trust and have zero rapport with, who targeted the guy who had pushed cyrus earliest in the game when there was a lot of alternatives.

vs

Nom, the guy who had pushed cyrus earliest in the game.

I've considered it and I don't buy it. Give me a reason to buy it.

And should I trust a guy still pushing another PR? Not on day 2 at all.

Give us a strong case on Town Nom then.

Your guilty is true or not??

well you can just hardclaim this guilty, if you want to be taken seriously

Well if I do that I die tonight. If I don't do that I don't get taken seriously at all and can still find the other scum. And when I die you'll know I was right anyway.

Win-Win for me to just soft guilty without extra context.

I don't understand what you're trying to as

self-claimed

tpr.

My death helps town. Me living helps town. You trusting me or not helps town via your reads on me.

I don't need a doc at all cuz either way I help town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see why neither nom or hem got killed. They controlled two insta wagons on d1. Scum either wanted them to push box today or one of them is scum and pocketed the other.

We were both townreading Salsabil, and Kuyoku scumreads Salsabil.

It was either a setup for Salsabil elim, or it's Salsabil.

I'm thinking we elim Salsabil now to see alignment, then elim boxxy Day 3 if Salsabil is town, then elim A50 Day 4 if boxxy is scum.

[Kerset]

In post 767, Kerset wrote:
In post 764, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Has boxxy's result really affected your reads on Seanzie here? Exactly.

no but the NKA did

How

Kuyoku suspected sean and died randomly

[Kerset]

VOTE: Seanzie
Its better then d1 24h 'associations'

[Kerset]

No one in scum team would expect that the first push in game is the one which will deliver elimination. It is reading game backwards.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kuyoku suspected sean and died randomly

There are multiple levels to this, so why do you prefer this narrative specifically? Kuyoku also suspected Salsabil and died seemingly randomly.

[humaneatingmonkey]

No one in scum team would expect that the first push in game is the one which will deliver elimination. It is reading game backwards.

What does this mean

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 34

Either way I think the play is nom today and if he flips town then bambi tomorrow.

The only alternative is if nom claims miller, I'll have to think if I'd believe such a claim.

Why not

Bambi Jay

first? I don't understand what she claimed in the 1st place.

Why would I do that as scum?

To save your team? Scum!you weren't there on day 1, the original scum team played wrong, cost you one team member + one wrong nk I suppose. For the win, scum!you need to eliminate strong player first.

If bambi doesn't want to openclaim then there is a reason behind it. Digging it, only favors scum as they learn more about the thing they shouldn't.

But you're talking about blind trust here.... how do you know scum!her isn't screwing with us?

Here's a slip Dwlee, I got a guilty on Nom but ain't gonna do anything with it today since I'd rather have fun this way instead.

Like why a tpr will act like this when the person she got guilty on is townreaded by many players.

Here's a slip Dwlee, I got a guilty on Nom but ain't gonna do anything with it today since I'd rather have fun this way instead.

I think ik what bambi is but Iwon't say it.VOTE: nomnomnom

Ok fine.... but how do you know it's true?
Another thing, what are your reads?

Definitely TOWN

:
Almost50, boxxy, Seanzie, Kerset, Rathe/Bambi Jay

Scummy

:
humaneatingmonkey

SCUM

:
nomnomnom


I'd advise you/anyone to to do a triple-ISO of cyrus/nom/HEM and re-evaluate their reads accordingly.

Like, who votes/pushes boxxy the most? That trio. T3 backed off as soon as he realized the claimed role wasn't what he thought it was. T3's push thus wasn't agenda-y. Who pushed Seenzie (and for what)?? Who finally gave up and voted cyrus?? Scum ARE nom & HEM.

VOTE: 3 noms

WTF! I don't know what you guys are seeing but I'm clearly not. Iirc,

nomnomnom

was having

cyrus62

as his 2nd scumread while wanted to eliminate

boxxy

(his 1st scumread) but no one was willing to eliminate

boxxy

, so he went for this 2nd scumread?
Plus, why

boxxy

is cleared to you? If I ignore the fact that scum let alive a tpr but his night choice is still questionable.

What is even happening this game? I'm so lost

Hi5!!

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 35

Almost, what Monkey does he got? He's avoiding the question and won't play with me even though he's a "troll" player.

I am letting him play it all out until he hangs himself with his own tail.

FTR, ISO me vs him. See my reaction to his entrance. I may have lightened up a little since, but it doesn't mean I have him as a "clear".

BTW, my Full read list looks like this:

Definitely TOWN

:
Almost50, boxxy, Seanzie, Kerset, Rathe/Bambi Jay

Possibly Town

(have some reservations/paranoia):
Dwlee99, Salsabil Faria

Null:

T3, MaxTheFox

Scummy

:
humaneatingmonkey

SCUM

:
nomnomnom


I'd advise you/anyone to to do a triple-ISO of cyrus/nom/HEM and re-evaluate their reads accordingly.

Like, who votes/pushes boxxy the most? That trio.

T3 backed off as soon as he realized the claimed role wasn't what he thought it was. T3's push thus wasn't agenda-y.

Who pushed Seenzie (and for what)??

Who

finally gave up

and voted cyrus?? Scum ARE nom & HEM.

VOTE: 3 noms

It seems like your whole worldview is premised on the idea that Boxxy is town. Why do you think that? I think that is a very dubious assumption.

You think Cyrus pushed Boxxy with any sort of seriousness? Can you please provide evidence for this?

Actually, it was me pushing HEM, not HEM pushing me. And after going back and forth with HEM, I felt good about hem. While there were some issues with how his original case was presented, he was able to further explain and his case on Boxxy had depth, and pointed out some things that IMO very likely point to Scum!Boxxy.

Please tell me about HEM and Cyrus's interactions. I'd like to see how you are coming to the conclusion that they are likely teamed.

Finally gave up? What exactly were they giving up? If you think the team is Cyrus/Nom/HEM, then that is 3 out of the 7 votes on Cyrus, so Cyrus wouldn't have been in immediate danger, so I don't see how you could be concluding that the team just gave up on saving Cyrus.

^This.

VOTE: nomnomnom

if nomnom flips town, we lynch bambi jay and boxxy.

Why are you giving up your top townread?

VOTE: HEM

>I< have a guilty on this. Bambi was just playing -as she always does- but she overdid it. Like, if she had a guilty ("Can Kill") she couldn't possibly have thought she could actually catch the "other scum" because that other scum must have already killed (since we did catch the 3rd on D1). I dunno how any of you would take that seriously with that kind of slip.

Letting it play makes me think nom may still be "bad town" here, because HEM's 856 says both Bambi & Boxxy are TOWN.

You gotta be kidding me

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 36

I softed Psychiatrist on D1

If I was a designer I'd compliment the "Roaming Detective" with a "Novice Psychiatrist" and then toss in a 1-shot Vig to mess with them both.

and started D2 soft-pushing you

I would have checked nom if I was you

Bambi just wanted me to stay alive, and didn't realize I was only allowed ONE guilty since the other Scum already killed. I let it play because it was interesting and it helps to see who goes with and who objects and for what reasons. I was working under the assumption both nom & HEM were scum together, but the reactions I got are enough for me to think otherwise. nom is Town

Well, this game is totally messed up to me rn. Answer the questions without trolling please:
1. What your role does?
2. You checked

humaneatingmonkey

and got guilty?
3. What result you got?
4.

boxxy

is cleared because of your role?

UNVOTE: boxxy

I mean my fake guilty was literally just to get scum to kill me to prove it's Nom. I wasn't even gonna push him out. I dug myself too deep and I wasn't going to just admit "yeah I wanted reactions". Almost knows I'm a compulsive liar/claimer so I guess he used me this time without my knowledge cuz I thought he would call me out like he usually does.

Clearly though nobody trusted Nom that much if a random came in and just said they were guilty. Clearly T3 and Almost had scumreads there already.

I will say him having an actual guilty was funny and almost (heh) wish I said my guilty was on Monkey instead.

"

I mean my fake guilty was literally just to get scum to kill me to prove it's Nom.

" : this doesn't necessarily mean

nomnomnom

will be confirmed scum.... what were you thinking?? Scum still can literally kill you to frame him.

vs Psychologist:
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Psychologist
"The Psychologist is an investigative role that determines a player's ability to kill."

Why he can't be town killer though?

I'm not a Serial Killer nor Mafia. And Almost50 is bullshitting.

Well you sure as hell ain't claiming Vigilante. That's my role.

I'm not a Serial Killer nor Mafia. And Almost50 is bullshitting.

Serial Killers aren't even allowed in Mini Normals.

Were you faking too???

You're a novice psychologist?

And how do you know that the modifier is novice??

I'm not even a vig nor do I have the ability to kill anyone.

Say it ain't so!

Alright, alright.. I will also retract my "guilty". As I said, I am NOVICE. I couldn't have acted on N1. DUH!

nevermind

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 37

@Seanzie

: nevermind, got the answer.

scum in {Bambi Jay, boxxy, Almost50}

Don't know, not sure about anything atm.

Almost50

and

Bambi Jay

's play is surely anti-town but why scum!them want to build attention towards them when they are 1 member short in the team and it's only Day 2??

A50 got cold feet, and now won't deliver.

Well, keep pushing me and see for yourself.

Hint: it doesn't even make sense for SCUM!ME to fake any sort of guilty on anyone today. Why? Assuming I am Scum we lost a member on D1 already. Sacrificing myself for a "NOT A PR" slot is simply madness. Like, we are 9-2 as we speak. I mis-lim a townie, kill a townie and then I get Eliminated, leaving my p going into N3 against SEVEN Townies? RC isn't playing in this game (just about the only one I know who could have won it in this situation)

^This.

I'll wait for Max & Salsabil to chime in before I decide which way to go.

Until then..

UNVOTE:

I was so close to voting you for messing up with the game

I shall remind everyone that Boxxy spent the majority of his day yesterday saying I was obvious scum for holding my tell, he claimed an invest role and he hasn't even checked me last night. And he hasn't checked Dwlee either which he opened with a vote on him today.
I refuse to believe he doesn't check me here.

This post has point + I also scumread

boxxy

but if your role actually clears

boxxy

, then I don't know what to do now. Why can't he fake-claim?

[Dwlee99]

What is this with someone's role clearing boxxy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Almost50 claims that his Novice Psychologist role works well with boxxy's Roaming Detective, and that's why he thinks boxxy is town.

[Salsabil Faria]

Page 38

I refuse to believe he doesn't check me here.

+1

Can't argue against this one

Then why

boxxy

is town???

I think scum must be logically be in between boxxy, sean and Salsabil.
I triple checked Kyouko's iso and there doesn't seem to be any obvious crumb so the only sensible reason that kyouko dies here is because kyouko established some kind of threat to the scum team.
Sean also immediately tried to push boxxy today so it's entirely possible that boxxy is town and sean has killed Kyouko for the double threat of not only being scumread by him, but also because they happened to think boxxy was town.
That's what I think so far, so I need to do a deep dive.

ssbm_Kyouko

had hard sus about one of me and

cyrus62

.

ssbm_Kyouko just ninja'd my thoughts re: Boxxxy scumreading Monkey, and I think that is a good look since Monkey is an easy push right now. I'd still like to hear ssbm_Kyouko's response to those reads they gave that I asked them about, but I'm giving this slot a townlean.

But scums offen try to go for easy push(es)??

Yes, Boxxxy went for the easy push and ssbm_Kyouko questioned Boxxxy about it, which looks good for ssbm_Kyouko.

I don't think

Seanzie

is scum here.

So I'll say this beforehand: another reason why i think there could be scum in Sean/Salsabil is because I know for a fact that scum!cyrus actually has a tendency to hard distance with his partners and initiate a lot of discussions with them.
That was his defining trait in a game where he was eliminated day 1 for being very obviously scum.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p11165856
He has talked A LOT that way to sean and salsabil so this makes me think that these two slots could be scum. Potentially both of them. This is not something to ignore, I tend to have a strong meta on Cyrus.
I have to remind town that the first reason I suspected Cyrus is because of this weird interaction with Sean

Dwlee99 is more null then town to me.
predit means they went to post but then got stoped half way though

predit. sean wanted reads super badly so im throwing out there and will change them as i see fit.

The change of read from him on Sean was also very weird, you might chalk it to "scums pretend and it doesn't mean anything about sean" but Cyrus has a meta where he tends to distance hardcore early on and it fits that narrative.
So I think perhaps we should lynch in Sean and Salsabil. I'll do a deep dive of Salsabil because I have Sean's posts a bit fresher in my mind.
pedit: Possibly, but I think NKA could also be much simpler than that. It's WIFOM but my intuition tells me kyouko was not killed because of a PR threat.

If I were scum,

ssbm_Kyouko

would not be the nk. Since my playstyle is scummy un default as any alignment, I usually don't take unnecessary attention as scum. Also, I usually kill among the players who townread me, it messes with people's brains and gives me more time. I think he was to frame another town player, in this case, me or

Seanzie

(but I think it's me, considering how

cyrus62

strongly believed

I am town before the flip).
Another thing, if I were scum,

cyrus62

wouldn't play like this.

[nomnomnom]

Another thing, if I were scum, cyrus62 wouldn't play like this.

Explain?

[nomnomnom]

The thing to keep in mind is that Kyouko was also townread by a bunch of people, including me. Since me and monkey were basically leading day 1, that could have just been it.

[Dwlee99]

Okay so I'm gonna start working on doing some ISOs throughout the morning. Before I start though, I don't know if I agree with you on 975 that Cyrus is a good actor. I think this will impact my reread of the wagon so could you explain why?