Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I’m fairly sure there is exactly one scum in House/Moon so i’d like the vote on either of them today. I’m going back and forth on both the slots and there’s things i like and dislike from both of them. But it’s never SvS and i doubt TvT as well.

[Gamma Emerald]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the main reason people are voting there is because his votes have been in strange places and a lot of the progression has happened 'off-screen'. I think you can see that progression if you look for it, and more importantly if he was scum that was making reads for convenience based on the gamestate then they wouldn't be so abnormal as to get him voted. The jarring aspect to it is playstyle and more likely to come from town

That is a big point, but I don’t think that’s all there is to it atp

[jjh927]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the main reason people are voting there is because his votes have been in strange places and a lot of the progression has happened 'off-screen'. I think you can see that progression if you look for it, and more importantly if he was scum that was making reads for convenience based on the gamestate then they wouldn't be so abnormal as to get him voted. The jarring aspect to it is playstyle and more likely to come from town

That is a big point, but I don’t think that’s all there is to it atp

What else is there?

[Gamma Emerald]

Currently I feel like Moongrass is flailing, which when conjoined with the feelings I was getting during D1 give the sense Titus and Moon are the team, Titus was the one they meant to have go far, and Moon is trying to toss herself into the mix to confuse things and keep Titus off the block

[Gamma Emerald]

And if you’re wondering why I’m voting Moongrass with that logic, when one person’s play suggests partnership with another person I like to try to execute the person whose actions are making the other person look suspicious FIRST. I developed this philosophy early in my mafia career: specifically, in my first game with House!

[jjh927]

That's bizarre

You're saying that Moon is purposefully looking scummy in order to get elimed?

If so, then what is Moon doing to look scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

Throwing out nonsense talk about a deliberate no-kill and other ideas that come across as meant to discombobulate

[jjh927]

You make an awful lot of assumptions about team dynamics for this as well

[jjh927]

What are the other ideas and how do they come across as meant to discombobulate?

[jjh927]

Scum trying to get elimed in place of another scum from the start of the day is somewhat absurd, as well

Why would this strategy make any sense? Moon has been down for limming Titus from the beginning of the day, particularly when there was a fair bit of early momentum and the support of both stumps

[Gamma Emerald]

You make an awful lot of assumptions about team dynamics for this as well

What assumptions?

[jjh927]

If anyone is making a drive for a distraction from the Titus elim, it is House, who first gauged options for directing the elim elsewhere, then has finally settled on Moon

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay maybe you’re right
I’m kinda seeing red atp when it comes to moon

[jjh927]

You make an awful lot of assumptions about team dynamics for this as well

What assumptions?

You assume that Titus is the member of the scumteam who they believe needs to make it to endgame. You assume that is even the line of thinking that the scumteam are following in their strategy, as you don't need to select a player to endgame. You assume that scum!Moon would jump under the bus due to unfounded confidence that scum!Titus would reach endgame if they did rather than adapt to the situation

[Titus]

I am pretty confident that scum are the ones pushing for my flip and town isn't. At first, I was a bit worried about pocketing but the way those pushing me have reacted indicates scum more. There's an argument to be made for why I am scum, yet no one is making those arguments. Instead, there's a lot of posts assuming I am scum and therefore what the game must look like.

House's jjh and moongrass theory looks particularly viable as jjh's posting looks to be all about keeping me in the PoE after Moon flips scum.

----

On another random note, I do think that the scum roles in this game must be directly designed to counter town. The scum kill blocker must be town. The IC must be town. Throwing in anymore confirmable roles is bad for game balance. If NM is real, then game balance is off from the start or scum have a way to bypass NM. So I can't see why EE views NM's result as real.

[jjh927]

Gamma is the only one who has made an argument that you are scum with Moon and I refuted it because you are not scum with Moon

[jjh927]

Right now I am strongly leaning towards a Titus/House scumteam based on House's efforts to move the elim away from Titus

[NorwegianboyEE]

So I can't see why EE views NM's result as real.

That’s cool, you can believe that.
But i’m never accepting an lim on N_M or his clears today. So if you think that’s happening then just forget about it.

[jjh927]

I wouldn't want lims on Mastina or Gamma regardless, and I completely believe that NM is confirmable as town

If we were to look at any slots in my POE I would need to know details before I trusted an inno result

[Titus]

So I can't see why EE views NM's result as real.

That’s cool, you can believe that.
But i’m never accepting an lim on N_M or his clears today. So if you think that’s happening then just forget about it.

I'm still sorting them, regardless of what you're saying here. I know it won't happen today, and maybe not ever, but they aren't cleared in my book because that's bad design. If it is bad design, a win is a win and I'll take it though.

[jjh927]

This actually makes me feel better about the possibility that scum's main counter to NM's clears was a commuter that no longer functions and Titus is scum offhandedly complaining about the setup balance

[Titus]

This actually makes me feel better about the possibility that scum's main counter to NM's clears was a commuter that no longer functions and Titus is scum offhandedly complaining about the setup balance

That would be impossible. Having game balance depend on two of presumably three scumroles surviving is terrible design, not just bad. It would have been more than just me fighting the nk elimination as well.

[jjh927]

I dunno, what if scum have 2 commuters and a commuter enabler up against a disloyal role granting 'clears' for town

[Titus]

I dunno, what if scum have 2 commuters and a commuter enabler up against a disloyal role granting 'clears' for town

Again, that still makes nk the essential lynchpin in all of their power. Yet he dies n1 with no resistance?

Giving scum an enabler role to their only way to stop a broken game where ICs confirm the presence of all power roles makes zero sense.

[Moongrass]

jjh what gives you your townread on the Feys?