Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[alstroemerial]

All right! Here we go. First, as a small introductory comment. Please don't be misled by my join date -- I played one game back in 2015-ish, and this is my first game since then. So, I'm very much a newbie. I've read a few threads in the last few weeks to try to get caught up on vernacular, etc.

My general perspective on the thread so far is that a lot of the discourse stems from people joking and then others pushing it so far that it becomes actual discourse. It's a little hard for me to parse what is serious and what is not (though I did gather that the reference to me in 27 was a joke, haha). With that being said, I did my best to give a serious read-list with some reasons why. Still, it's so early that almost everything is more of a "lean" at best.

Lean town

GrandpaMo

: Someone who got caught up in a lot of the "joke-course" but it all comes across to me like a genuine attempt to transition out of RVS. I agree with the observation that Zyla's hard push against the no elim joke vote is strange.

Val89

: As you can guess from the beginning of this post, I was annoyed by Val's fake RVS wall because it started all of this confusing conversation, but I don't think it's a scummy thing to do. I agree with post 76 and would have made something similar if I was active... Post 72 to me is interesting and reads well because it shows that Val did some work looking into James instead of jumping straight to an OMGUS.

VFP

: Most of the posts so far have been fluff, with only I think one major post past RVS. But that post (57) was productive, giving several reads, so it was productive.

Null:

T3

: T3 has been in a few of the games I've read and I find him to be a bit of an enigma and hard to read... Hasn't given a lot of content so far. The meta claim about the self and lack of content makes me have questions, but it's canceled out by post 43, which I liked.

Lean scum:

Cook

: I'm just not getting any content. As mentioned in 76, post 73 showed that Cook is active but just not posting any content. Unless this is normal for Cook, I'd expect more from an SE.

MiniMegabyte

: Similarly to Cook, I haven't seen Mini before but I thought an SE would be playing differently, but maybe I'm just wrong. Posts 58-62 seemed like taking an obvious joke (25) completely at face value, and that's pretty much all we've gotten. It was weirdly defensive off of Val's joke-accusation.

Zyla

: It just seems weird to me to dig in so hard on literally one of the first posts in the thread, during the RVS phase. Additionally, the hero solve on 89 was a combo of that digging-in with a healthy dose of OMGUS. However, I have a doubt that I'm struggling to articulate, which is that I read a game in which Zyla turned out to be scum, and this game feels different. I read that earlier game not knowing I'd be playing with Zyla again, so maybe I need to go back and take a closer look.

JamesTheNames

: In general I agree with Val's logic, but here is something else new.

I like the idea of tunnelling day 1 I will warn you of this.

This really rubs me the wrong way. I don't see how tunnelling is productive? By nature, "tunnel vision" is regarded as a dangerous thing that closes one off to new possibilities. There could be times when tunneling is appropriate (i.e. more info), but at this point, it seems unproductive. Then, there's the

threatening

to tunnel. What are you trying to accomplish with this? The post as a whole reads like "back off or I'll tunnel you".

With all that said, I'll put my vote on VOTE: JamestheNames.

Last but not least, a newbie question. If this isn't something people feel comfortable answering during the game I get it, but... does anyone have any tips for taking notes? Right now I'm using a Word doc organized by player, with each player getting a bullet-point list labeled with post numbers, along with a general section for reads at the top, but I feel like it's going to get unwieldy as the number of pages in the game increase.

[T3]

All right! Here we go. First, as a small introductory comment. Please don't be misled by my join date -- I played one game back in 2015-ish, and this is my first game since then. So, I'm very much a newbie. I've read a few threads in the last few weeks to try to get caught up on vernacular, etc.

My general perspective on the thread so far is that a lot of the discourse stems from people joking and then others pushing it so far that it becomes actual discourse. It's a little hard for me to parse what is serious and what is not (though I did gather that the reference to me in 27 was a joke, haha). With that being said, I did my best to give a serious read-list with some reasons why. Still, it's so early that almost everything is more of a "lean" at best.

Lean town

GrandpaMo

: Someone who got caught up in a lot of the "joke-course" but it all comes across to me like a genuine attempt to transition out of RVS. I agree with the observation that Zyla's hard push against the no elim joke vote is strange.

Val89

: As you can guess from the beginning of this post, I was annoyed by Val's fake RVS wall because it started all of this confusing conversation, but I don't think it's a scummy thing to do. I agree with post 76 and would have made something similar if I was active... Post 72 to me is interesting and reads well because it shows that Val did some work looking into James instead of jumping straight to an OMGUS.

VFP

: Most of the posts so far have been fluff, with only I think one major post past RVS. But that post (57) was productive, giving several reads, so it was productive.

Null:

T3

: T3 has been in a few of the games I've read and I find him to be a bit of an enigma and hard to read... Hasn't given a lot of content so far. The meta claim about the self and lack of content makes me have questions, but it's canceled out by post 43, which I liked.

Lean scum:

Cook

: I'm just not getting any content. As mentioned in 76, post 73 showed that Cook is active but just not posting any content. Unless this is normal for Cook, I'd expect more from an SE.

MiniMegabyte

: Similarly to Cook, I haven't seen Mini before but I thought an SE would be playing differently, but maybe I'm just wrong. Posts 58-62 seemed like taking an obvious joke (25) completely at face value, and that's pretty much all we've gotten. It was weirdly defensive off of Val's joke-accusation.

Zyla

: It just seems weird to me to dig in so hard on literally one of the first posts in the thread, during the RVS phase. Additionally, the hero solve on 89 was a combo of that digging-in with a healthy dose of OMGUS. However, I have a doubt that I'm struggling to articulate, which is that I read a game in which Zyla turned out to be scum, and this game feels different. I read that earlier game not knowing I'd be playing with Zyla again, so maybe I need to go back and take a closer look.

JamesTheNames

: In general I agree with Val's logic, but here is something else new.

I like the idea of tunnelling day 1 I will warn you of this.

This really rubs me the wrong way. I don't see how tunnelling is productive? By nature, "tunnel vision" is regarded as a dangerous thing that closes one off to new possibilities. There could be times when tunneling is appropriate (i.e. more info), but at this point, it seems unproductive. Then, there's the

threatening

to tunnel. What are you trying to accomplish with this? The post as a whole reads like "back off or I'll tunnel you".

With all that said, I'll put my vote on VOTE: JamestheNames.

Last but not least, a newbie question. If this isn't something people feel comfortable answering during the game I get it, but... does anyone have any tips for taking notes? Right now I'm using a Word doc organized by player, with each player getting a bullet-point list labeled with post numbers, along with a general section for reads at the top, but I feel like it's going to get unwieldy as the number of pages in the game increase.

You can ask the mod for a notes pt.

This post is very towny.

[VFP]

They're showing us up, T3.

[Zyla]

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

[VFP]

I mean, it's still true. I haven't lost a game with a D1 no lim.
I have lost a game with a day 1 lim.

[alstroemerial]

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

[alstroemerial]

EBWOP: I wrote that before 104, which I also take as serious.

[alstroemerial]

So, in that case, I guess my question for

VFP

is whether GrandpaMo's assumption in my #2 is true or not. That is, do you actually think we should no lim now that the game has been going on for a bit more?

[VFP]

No, I don't think a no lim is actually better.
And Zyla is basically hard stuck town for keep pressuring it. Scum Zyla would have backed off by now.

[T3]

Provable lies are NAI.

[Zyla]

Zyla

: It just seems weird to me to dig in so hard on literally one of the first posts in the thread, during the RVS phase. Additionally, the hero solve on 89 was a combo of that digging-in with a healthy dose of OMGUS. However, I have a doubt that I'm struggling to articulate, which is that I read a game in which Zyla turned out to be scum, and this game feels different. I read that earlier game not knowing I'd be playing with Zyla again, so maybe I need to go back and take a closer look.

Unfortunately, 2065 is not only my only scum game so far, but it was also my first game on sight, so tbh, scum meta won't be very helpful on me. 2064 I was town, but I replaced in into a rolling wagon on one of the scum and the next day was solved because of PRs rather than reads, so I'm not sure if that would be helpful for a town read

[GrandpaMo]

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

Also the confusing bits of my things -- I am working on that lol. I have been called confusing every game so far.

[GrandpaMo]

No, I don't think a no lim is actually better.
And Zyla is basically hard stuck town for keep pressuring it. Scum Zyla would have backed off by now.

yea see this is why zyla could be town lmao

but honestly, u wouldn't rlly know that info ? as zyla says they only have played 1 scum game? have they done that, in that specific game?

[GrandpaMo]

Alright, I'm going to try to condense the "No Lim" convo so far.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Here's the original post, they posted a vote for no lim. They could be posting it as a joke, they could seriously be not wanting an elimination day 1, this might be their way of getting the ball rolling. (If the last one, mad props my friend, as it certainly worked) I don't know why they posted it, which is why I pointed it out so I could figure out the purpose of it.

Hi, I'm VFP and I have never played with anyone in this player list.

VOTE: No lim

Hm. As [you are] an SE, I find it surprising you'd open with this. Why not a random vote, or some questions to get the ball rolling?

Zyla maybe town, I don't see anything scum motivated to point out the no lim and as an experienced player probably just isn't used to this.

I'll be honest, I completely missed this post the first time around. Unfortunately I'm not really sure what they mean with the part past '[nothing] scum motivated', so I don't have a response

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

This part is true, and again, if this was VFP's point, props to them.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

i literally give u a tldr at the end

[GrandpaMo]

wait i think alstro is scum lol

[GrandpaMo]

nvm i think we vote james today and if they flip green, i think ur scum

[JamesTheNames]

I like the idea of tunnelling day 1 I will warn you of this.

This really rubs me the wrong way. I don't see how tunnelling is productive? By nature, "tunnel vision" is regarded as a dangerous thing that closes one off to new possibilities. There could be times when tunneling is appropriate (i.e. more info), but at this point, it seems unproductive. Then, there's the

threatening

to tunnel. What are you trying to accomplish with this? The post as a whole reads like "back off or I'll tunnel you".

With all that said, I'll put my vote on VOTE: JamestheNames.

Last but not least, a newbie question. If this isn't something people feel comfortable answering during the game I get it, but... does anyone have any tips for taking notes? Right now I'm using a Word doc organized by player, with each player getting a bullet-point list labeled with post numbers, along with a general section for reads at the top, but I feel like it's going to get unwieldy as the number of pages in the game increase.

I think it can be very productive. I don't think there are many more efficient ways of getting reads day 1. You have no power role reads, no night kills, no eliminations. You can't use hindsight to justify applying pressure onto somebody either. However tunnelling somebody, especially one who you don't have a town read on, be it null or scum instead, applies more pressure than splitting your attention between multiple people, goes further than split attention pressure would apply, and in general makes the game easier to solve.

You have to dig for treasure, you have a shovel and it could only dig so much, what happens if you split the shovel between multiple holes, maybe you didn't dig deep enough to get the treasure, whereas if you dug as deep as you could on one hole, you'd know if the treasure was there or not. In this analogy shovel = time, treasure = solid read, multiple holes = people.

Also I should probably have clarified instead of making the post so short, it doesn't necessarily mean tunnelling for the entire remaining 8~ days, just for a period of the remaining 8~ days.

[JamesTheNames]

By Power Role Reads I mean stuff from cop/tracker type roles.

[Zyla]

Here's what I have for reads so far

Town

Town-lean

Alstro
James
T3

Null

Cook

Scum-lean

VFP
Grandpa

Scum

Not Enough Info:

MiniMeg
Val


VOTE: Grandpa

[VFP]

No! Not Grampa! >:|

[JamesTheNames]

No! Not Grampa! >:|

Weren't you aware of GrandpaMo's once putting a horse's head in somebody's bed?

[Cook]

'twas attending a party

[VFP]

No! Not Grampa! >:|

Weren't you aware of GrandpaMo's once putting a horse's head in somebody's bed?

Why do you think I kiss the ring?

[Cook]

TR VFP
SL James
SR GrandpaMo, Val89, MiniMegabyte

[alstroemerial]

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus. I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum. Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

Can you just confirm if I'm reading right that both of those "yous" are at me? I do agree that I look bad if James flips green, but can you explain a little more why I'm the only possible scum? Besides that you said my post with the most content so far was towny, I'm personally concerned at the number of people we just don't have a lot of information about at this point.

I think it can be very productive. I don't think there are many more efficient ways of getting reads day 1. You have no power role reads, no night kills, no eliminations. You can't use hindsight to justify applying pressure onto somebody either. However tunnelling somebody, especially one who you don't have a town read on, be it null or scum instead, applies more pressure than splitting your attention between multiple people, goes further than split attention pressure would apply, and in general makes the game easier to solve.

You have to dig for treasure, you have a shovel and it could only dig so much, what happens if you split the shovel between multiple holes, maybe you didn't dig deep enough to get the treasure, whereas if you dug as deep as you could on one hole, you'd know if the treasure was there or not. In this analogy shovel = time, treasure = solid read, multiple holes = people.

Also I should probably have clarified instead of making the post so short, it doesn't necessarily mean tunnelling for the entire remaining 8~ days, just for a period of the remaining 8~ days.

I think maybe we then just had different interpretations of "tunnelling." I was taking it to mean, roughly, "lock onto target with full confidence and push as hard as you can for as long as you can." With the treasure metaphor, I agree for the same reason that I think having a vote somewhere is more productive than not voting at all.


Question for

Zyla

regarding your Val read. Does your scum-lean on Grandpa make you think Val is more likely to be town, given all of the back and forth that they had? I ask partially because I have them as flipped. It doesn't read like scum v scum to me.