Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[GrandpaMo]

I remember I sred grandpa in another game as town for exactly this.

What's this?

LOL

I had the same question. Like you push me for something that could have been easily debunked and in which I did then you claim it didn't happen, and now you claim it did?

The setting up for the following day.

do u have source, idk what u are exactly referring to here..? i have bad memory

[GrandpaMo]

okay ill try my best to digest this info because im confused? are you like tryna reiterate a scumcase on me?

Spoiler:

RVS sucks

True, but it's one of two options I know of to get the ball rolling. If you don't like RVS, how would you prefer town getting conversation going?

This is very very ironic because a No Lim has caused this conversation to get started and maybe get a read on you and maybe see interactions with other people. This is why I pointed you out earlier.

I lied.

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

"NAI, could be scum, don't read over this, stop the conversation"
To me this just seems absurd, he seems to go back and forth and back in a single post, and tries to suggest the conversation should just end, when so far it's been pretty productive and getting people to talk.

werent you the one who literally got on me for getting on a no lim vote being counterproductive??? and you even agreeed to that and that instantly contradicted your claim where you said "a no lim doesn't create any discussion x and x". very very hypocritcal. i don't go back and forth. alstro + me have gave you what that quote meant like 5 times already and you even came at an understanding later after i told you that i proposed a summary at the end in whcih you were like it wasn't a summary but alstro already had gave you the meaning and i agreeed. alstro hit almost spot on and i added to it. |: i rlly dont know why u are still bringing this up now.

Spoiler:

i don't know if you were serious at all

No, I wasn't.

and realized it was just a BS post to make it seem long, with no content providing and voting someone other than your scumread xD

Absolutely correct. It was a straight-forward RVS vote dressed up in the style of a serious wall post. You correctly identify the most obvious punchline there, but I dropped a few other things that should have made it clear it was entirely non-serious. I don't really claim to have invented the acronym 'WIFOM', to take another example. Of course, if it transpires that

MiniMegaByte

is scum, I reserve the right to imply I was in fact being serious and I knew from day one.

My post #27 was equally non-serious. Technically, reading you as null was serious, but the reasons equally BS. The clue there was the fact the that you HAD put your vote on one of the 3 - and Cook, MiniMegaByte and me are definitely 3, by the way - with the kicker being the reference to

alstroemeria

, whom was yet to be mentioned. I read you as null because I was reading everyone as null. There is nothing upto #27 I consider indicative either way.

Okay I guess we both misunderstood? LOL. I just thought my RVS didn't really count as a "joke" scumread or whatever you want to read it as and so I just assumed you would imply that the people I scumread (and not the person I voted!) was scum.

Who would've thought that at the beginning of the game people joke around

Indeed.

you can see how it's bad and you should admit that.

To be clear - I do nothing of the sort.

Okay this was also sort of a wifom post to see your reaction to how well you took pressure early game. You took it well, unless this how you play good as scum. But I will give you towncreds for now as this post was not expected (yes, I expected a manipulative scummy post for some reason lol) but you did well responding to my points.

How well he took pressure? He just said his stuff wasn't serious? That get's town cred?

Look at the full context please. Smh. The answer you are looking for should be within the conversation. I will give you a hint; the reason relates to a misunderstanding we BOTH had. (I am assuming)

I don't like that this is his best answer. Where in the conversation is the answer? How is it supposed to be found? If the person asking the question was able to find it, don't you think they would've just... not asked the question?

i have no idea what you are referring to here. this is what happened in the interaction between me and james -- it seems like you are getting very over defensive as ur possible scum partner james. i already explained this multiple times. look at post 146 and the whole quote wall wit james initial reply and my justification as it wasn't that obvious. that context was obvious and town should have easily got it.

Spoiler:

Thanks for condensing everything a bit more, Zyla. I interpreted post 78 as a joke, kind of like someone who's never played chess saying they're undefeated in chess. To be honest, so far, the only post in VFP's ISO that I interpret as serious is 57, and I would be curious for more of their thoughts.

Also, I'm not going to quote it again, but here's my interpretation of GrandpaMo's post 87... I didn't totally follow the first sentence so it kind of starts from after that.
1) VFP's no-lim is NAI, so he thinks it is suspicious that you are scumreading them for it.
2) Everyone will eventually vote by the end of D1, including VFP, so stressing about the no-lim is pointless. So, he expected you to stop pushing the issue, but you didn't.
3) Pushing something that Mo thinks is NAI makes you suspicious a bit.

Now that I write it out like that it seems a little less compelling than it was in my head, to be honest, but that combined with the OMGUS still has you slightly on the red side for me. But I do agree that it's been confusing.

Yea, that's why I said bad reaction because it was a weird omgus.

I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum.

Also I agree with T3 and I do think your introduction is actually towny.

You did hit all the parts right. That was the main reason but it's also the way she ended up going with the convo -- just seemed like a way for scum to, I don't know, maybe drive a possible condemn? See this is why I give them scumpings not a full scumread because they could defeinitly be town for initiating the scumread or this convo -- which is has to be found, a very towny thing to do. So if that is the case (which will need to be decided later) then yea there is a chance for her to flip town.

(I'm not entirely sure who the pronouns are referring to, but it doesn't really matter)
If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

idk if you noticed, but i said "possible scum" this was still when i was debating if u were scum or possible misguided town then james came into play and just used my bias. james could just be using u as a utility to vote me. thats where my paranoia creeked in. i didnt have any scumreads at the moment, but you were the only one who has potential to be scum. keywords: fully (which implies scumlean) and possible (paranoia of null read) and i furhter exemplified this in a later read where i said you were null scum leaning.

Also, I very much dislike how James just left this conversation. This looks bad for you, James.

Scumreading someone for going to sleep is just.. bad.

Okay this post pissed me off. What?????!?!?

I am not even-

Like where were you in the last 10 pages???

Did you not see the full post for this?

Did you not see anything for this?

Why are just bringing this stuff up now??

You just look like a bit of flailing scum trying your best to drive any momentum on a vote on me?

I think also I will townlean you for not straight up finding scum between me and James. I feel like scum would just try to get an easy vote off me or James.

And then there's this. Why is he commenting saying that he's an easy vote?

because majority is on us or james?? This should have been obvious. You could have been confused, but you shouldn't be know. the two major bws was me and james, heck i even think i was at e-2. and i had the most votes on me. scum usually comes in after a replacement and decides to scumread the person wit the most votes well that is biased because it happened to me before lol in a pervious game.

but idk -- this should have been obvious to you. also it sounds like you could be manipulating this to make me look bad for only me? like you know i said easy vote off me OR james? not just me. why didn't you mention james??

POSSIBLE SCUMPARTNER???!?!?!?!?

we may never know:(

holy fuck -- these quotes are so bad from zyla that it makes me want to fully townread them ;-;

[GrandpaMo]

pls help town

[GrandpaMo]

could scum just be that obvious and be james and zyla? no way bru lolol

[GrandpaMo]

zyla stop making me gicing the benift of the doubt plssssss

do something very towny rn

[alstroemerial]

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Obliged to scumread you for this LAMIST.

An example of why I'm TR-ing NEE -- pointing out something new that could have flown under the radar (in addition to the ongoing case NEE is making against Zyla). I'm getting the sense that NEE is engaging with the game with a broad lens, and I do agree that the case against Zyla instead of one of the ongoing wagons makes it more likely that NEE is town, especially if one of Grandpa/James is scum -- if NEE was one of their scumbuddies, it would make sense to try to help out by going for the other one in the pair.

Alstro do you townread me? Because me and the scumcase on Zyla from NEE allign so I am assuming they townread me. And my townread on NEE alligns with the same proposed logic on how NEE is town because they were on Zyla instead of the ongoing wagon.

I already townread you, not for those reasons, but more because I don't think a relatively new scum would get in the middle of so much direct one v one back and forth and be so aggressive.

[alstroemerial]

I'm diving back in now.

There is a part of me that is swayed by the conversations about Zyla -- I had her as one of my first SRs back when I made that first post with all the reads and nothing has really happened to change that, but I would like to keep my vote on James until he comes back and gives an opinion on the back and forth that was happening a page or so ago... or until other unlikely extenuating circumstances happen (i.e. my reread changes things dramatically, time runs out, someone slips, etc...).

[alstroemerial]

Okay, per the challenge that NEE sort of made, here is my short-as-possible explanation for being suspicious of James. I reference post numbers in the overall thread but it could be more helpful to have the ISO.

1) The initial vote on Val in 35 was pretty much an RVS joke (confirmed in post 85), but then dug in without giving additional reasoning in 39 and 64.

2) This leads into the "tunneling discourse", which you can get a general sense of from posts 66, 116, and 127. Someone pointed out that James could have been being misleading about his intent in the posts where he is later backing down. Regardless of the exact meaning that was intended, it still does strike me as unusually aggressive when, at the time it started, there wasn't a clear case laid out.

3) This is specific to if Zyla is scum, I suppose, but you can see some weird defensiveness in 91 and 149. You can also see that it's reciprocated in Zyla's ISO (including the "gut read" on James with reasons for everyone else), but I'm trying to keep this James-focused. Still, it does look to me like if you suspect Zyla, there's good reason to suspect James too.

4) The pivot to Grandpa is a bit of an OMGUS, looking at posts 115 (Grandpa) and 139-140 (James). There is a bit of a gap in terms of post numbers, yes, but this is in part filled with James working through reactions earlier in the thread.

Having this written out makes me hedge a bit on if this is my #1 go (particularly #3) but I just want to hear a bit from James before I'm comfortable thinking about moving. It's like, not changing the read, just changing who the #1 SR is potentially, depending on James's takes.

[GrandpaMo]

could scum just be that obvious and be james and zyla? no way bru lolol

Okay, per the challenge that NEE sort of made, here is my short-as-possible explanation for being suspicious of James. I reference post numbers in the overall thread but it could be more helpful to have the ISO.

1) The initial vote on Val in 35 was pretty much an RVS joke (confirmed in post 85), but then dug in without giving additional reasoning in 39 and 64.

2) This leads into the "tunneling discourse", which you can get a general sense of from posts 66, 116, and 127. Someone pointed out that James could have been being misleading about his intent in the posts where he is later backing down. Regardless of the exact meaning that was intended, it still does strike me as unusually aggressive when, at the time it started, there wasn't a clear case laid out.

3) This is specific to if Zyla is scum, I suppose, but you can see some weird defensiveness in 91 and 149. You can also see that it's reciprocated in Zyla's ISO (including the "gut read" on James with reasons for everyone else), but I'm trying to keep this James-focused. Still, it does look to me like if you suspect Zyla, there's good reason to suspect James too.

4) The pivot to Grandpa is a bit of an OMGUS, looking at posts 115 (Grandpa) and 139-140 (James). There is a bit of a gap in terms of post numbers, yes, but this is in part filled with James working through reactions earlier in the thread.

Having this written out makes me hedge a bit on if this is my #1 go (particularly #3) but I just want to hear a bit from James before I'm comfortable thinking about moving. It's like, not changing the read, just changing who the #1 SR is potentially, depending on James's takes.

yea so for number 3 -- what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

[GrandpaMo]

Thats 3 pages, 3 reads! A read per page!

Obliged to scumread you for this LAMIST.

An example of why I'm TR-ing NEE -- pointing out something new that could have flown under the radar (in addition to the ongoing case NEE is making against Zyla). I'm getting the sense that NEE is engaging with the game with a broad lens, and I do agree that the case against Zyla instead of one of the ongoing wagons makes it more likely that NEE is town, especially if one of Grandpa/James is scum -- if NEE was one of their scumbuddies, it would make sense to try to help out by going for the other one in the pair.

Alstro do you townread me? Because me and the scumcase on Zyla from NEE allign so I am assuming they townread me. And my townread on NEE alligns with the same proposed logic on how NEE is town because they were on Zyla instead of the ongoing wagon.

I already townread you, not for those reasons, but more because I don't think a relatively new scum would get in the middle of so much direct one v one back and forth and be so aggressive.

i feel like those are kinda wack reasons to townread me -- the arguement that my logic pairs up with yours makes more sense mechanically to townread me and has a better stance for that.

[Val89]

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

[T3]

I voted you for appering to try to implicate alstro to set up for tomorrow.

[T3]

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

This post pings me weirdly. Nothing to vote over and idk why.

[GrandpaMo]

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

This post pings me weirdly. Nothing to vote over and idk why.

i disagree t3.. i think val is right. confirmation bias is starting to take place imo.

we should just back off for a bit now -- and let james and nyla rebuttal for a second to give us a new perception

[alstroemerial]

yea so for number 3 -- what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Yeah, the summary of my #3 is that Zyla and James do appear to be linked. My interpretation of only pointing out you and not James is that "I am an easy vote" is a weird statement, so her focus was on that. I don't really see how that is alignment indicative from Zyla's perspective with respect to you, just odd.

[alstroemerial]

snipping other nested quotes

Alstro do you townread me? Because me and the scumcase on Zyla from NEE allign so I am assuming they townread me. And my townread on NEE alligns with the same proposed logic on how NEE is town because they were on Zyla instead of the ongoing wagon.

I already townread you, not for those reasons, but more because I don't think a relatively new scum would get in the middle of so much direct one v one back and forth and be so aggressive.

i feel like those are kinda wack reasons to townread me -- the arguement that my logic pairs up with yours makes more sense mechanically to townread me and has a better stance for that.

Well, you don't have to agree, but I'm just saying what the reason is. Your post 305 does give me weird vibes the more I think about it, and 309 doesn't make me feel better, like "Hey do you think I'm good? Here's an argument why I'm good." ... "Your argument isn't good enough use my argument instead."

I just think the universe in which Grandpa is scum and the universe in which Zyla, James, or both are scum are mutually distinct and the latter is more likely right now.

[alstroemerial]

confirmation bias is starting to take place imo.

ughhh you're right you're right, I'm just thinking in circles too, goodnight

[VFP]

Okay, I think I'm ready to vote.

[VFP]

I was just going to sheep NorwegianboyEE.
But I think Grampa is actually just scum here.

[JamesTheNames]

Give me a moment and I'll post an actual response.
With regards to me and Zyla having different reasons for voting GrandpaMo, you have my reasons already, Zyla seemed more like a vibe read or trying for a 1v1. At least that's what I felt about it when I read Zyla's posts.

[VFP]

I'm listening.

[GrandpaMo]

I was just going to sheep NorwegianboyEE.
But I think Grampa is actually just scum here.

what

can u giv reasons? or nah

[GrandpaMo]

because u havent done jackshit in the game + u should know my meta lol

and should know im acting my town!grandpa

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

[GrandpaMo]

Give me a moment and I'll post an actual response.
With regards to me and Zyla having different reasons for voting GrandpaMo, you have my reasons already, Zyla seemed more like a vibe read or trying for a 1v1. At least that's what I felt about it when I read Zyla's posts.

this looks like scum tryna distance?

[JamesTheNames]

because u havent done jackshit in the game + u should know my meta lol

and should know im acting my town!grandpa

let me hear those farfetched bs reasons once again

And boom just like that I'm now 100% convinced you're Scum.