Newbie 2068 | Lofi Beats to Play Mafia To | Game Over

[Nahdia]

Vote Count 1.04

GrandpaMo (2):

Zyla, JamesTheNames,

T3

JamesTheNames (2):

Val89, alstroemerial

Zyla (2):

Cook, NorwegianboyEE

Cook (1):

GrandpaMo

No Elimination (1):

VFP

Not Voting (1):

T3

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-06-27 12:00:00)

, at which point we will default to no elimination.

With nine players alive, it takes

five

to reach majority.

Note:

Happy Monday! Do your best this week, and have a great summer!

[T3]

To be clear.

I voted grandpa for doing x.

I then remember that I voted grandpa in another game for x, and was wrong.

I unvoted.

[Val89]

To be clear.

I voted grandpa for doing x.

Not all that much clearer if you don't actually mention what 'x' is.

[T3]

x is appearing to try to set up for tomorrow.

[Nahdia]

Cook has been prodded.

[Zyla]

My point exactly, Zyla.

You may well feel like you can't leave it as two words which amount to "my point was shit" if you are scum, and your point was against someone you need to push as scum. Like, if anything in my case against you or James is just straight up crap based on a simple misunderstanding and another player comes along and points it out, I don't see an issue just saying "yeah, you are right, that's crap".

What's the reason you still don't like someone saying you are a scumlean, and the only scumlean they have so far? That it was Day 1? That they could change their mind later?

Incidentally, we have been interacting a fair bit of late. Have you enough information to make a read on me now?

No. Unfortunately, I don't think I can trust myself to read you right now, because it feels like you're purposefully trying to be rude, and that's going to cause an emotional read rather than a logical one. My post was not saying "My point was shit", and I don't think it

was

. It's not that I don't like him saying "you are the only scumlean I have", it's that I don't like the fact that it read as "You aren't scummy, but you're the only possible scum" as I don't see how both parts of that can be true.

what do u think about like the wall post that zyla posted of where i was saying i was an easy vote like look at post 299, last quote message

they only pointed out me and not james

Don't see anything wrong with that - it seems like a stretch to point to you talking about Norwee not jumping on either wagon and suggest that is scummy; but it seems equally weird to point to the fact she mentions the wagon on you and not the one on James to suggest they might be partners.

There is enough floating about and I think weak arguments like this are just starting to cloud the issue.

In response to Grandpa's 299, my post 277 was in response to NEE's 273. It was a scumcase on you, because I was specifically asked for one.
Also, @NEE, you mentioned that you doubt one of those sentences comes from town. Which one?


Also, I'm going to go back to my original VOTE: VFP. They've posted almost nothing substantial this entire game, said they were going to vote someone at 317 and never followed through, and from reading a random sample of 3 of their town ISOs, I don't think it's just playstyle.

[VFP]

[T3]

[Val89]

it feels like you're purposefully trying to be rude

I'm not. Sorry if it feels that way.

I don't like the fact that it read as "You aren't scummy, but you're the only possible scum"

Spoiler:

If Grandpa doesn't scumread someone, how are they possible scum? That just doesn't make sense, could be just bad logic though.

FWIW, I read that as "I don't assign you a full scrumread, just a scumlean, but you are the only scumlean I have so far".

Fair enough, but I don't see the point in emphasizing that when it's day 1.

I thought we had established (and agreed) that Grandpa wasn't saying "you aren't scummy", but "you are my only scumlean"?

[Zyla]

Ah, my post 285 was more saying that I understood how you read it that way than saying that I now read it that way. I'm still not entirely sure on it

[Val89]

Well, my #290 was predicated on that former interpretation. I rescind it.

I read you scummy for it because what I thought you were saying was "Yes, you are right,

but

[nonsensical follow up that was unnecessary and served only to have something to hang a but on]". I see now I was wrong about that.

The phrasing of "I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum." is bit awkward for sure. You bought it up as point 3 of 5 is a list of "reasons why Zyla thinks Grandpa is scummy". I gave you my interpretation as to what I think he was trying to express. If you disagree, can you articulate why you consider this specific phrasing to be AI? Do you think it was deliberate in order to distract, or something?

[JamesTheNames]

I can't read Zyla's mind: 184 is different than mine, there's the formal comment for my not-so-formal comment just prior.

I don't understand the "formal comment" bit, but #184 is a long time AFTER #145, when you first say you and Zyla have different reasons.

Zyla seemed more like a vibe read or trying for a 1v1. At least that's what I felt about it when I read Zyla's posts.

Clear this up for me now, please: If these are the reasons you thought Zyla was scumreading Grandpa, tell me

why

. What did Zyla say or do that made you think that

before

post #145?

Feel free not to read 184. Zyla here links to a post where she explained why she scum read Grandpa. Which is earlier than 145.

[JamesTheNames]

Why do people keep doing nonsense like "I've got a read but I'm saving it for day 2"? No you don't. If you had an actual read you'd tell us.

[Zyla]

Well, my #290 was predicated on that former interpretation. I rescind it.

I read you scummy for it because what I thought you were saying was "Yes, you are right,

but

[nonsensical follow up that was unnecessary and served only to have something to hang a but on]". I see now I was wrong about that.

The phrasing of "I don't fully scumread you but you are like the only one who I see that could be possible scum." is bit awkward for sure. You bought it up as point 3 of 5 is a list of "reasons why Zyla thinks Grandpa is scummy". I gave you my interpretation as to what I think he was trying to express. If you disagree, can you articulate why you consider this specific phrasing to be AI? Do you think it was deliberate in order to distract, or something?

Honestly, looking back at it today with fresh eyes, I'm not as sure about it as I was. I was in a bad mood because of IRL stuff (which I didn't quite realize until 289) and I think I dug my heels into wet cement there. I'm gonna re-read the thread and see what I think then

[alstroemerial]

I don't know why you're on such a high horse but people are trying to enjoy this game there's no need to be unpleasant.

Agree

[Val89]

Feel free not to read 184. Zyla here links to a post where she explained why she scum read Grandpa. Which is earlier than 145.

Indeed. Against Grandpa's name, she linked #103; in which she outlined her case against

VFP.

At the end, she quotes a part of Grandpa's #83 and says she doesn't understand it -

but I fail to see the part where she says why she is scrum reading

Grandpa

.

It's important, because you later go on to authoritatively claim that you and Zyla have different reasons for scumreading Grandpa. I have previously suggested it was because you either scum slip that you are in private thread with

Zyla

, or else you are trying to put words in her mouth.

Zyla herself acknowledges you haven't explained what's going on here and asks for qualification in her #208, while suggesting there is a third alternative.

Zyla, are you satisfied with James' responses, here?

[alstroemerial]

I can't read Zyla's mind: 184 is different than mine, there's the formal comment for my not-so-formal comment just prior.

I don't understand the "formal comment" bit, but #184 is a long time AFTER #145, when you first say you and Zyla have different reasons.

Zyla seemed more like a vibe read or trying for a 1v1. At least that's what I felt about it when I read Zyla's posts.

Clear this up for me now, please: If these are the reasons you thought Zyla was scumreading Grandpa, tell me

why

. What did Zyla say or do that made you think that

before

post #145?

Feel free not to read 184. Zyla here links to a post where she explained why she scum read Grandpa. Which is earlier than 145.

Just reviving the idea in my post 192 in response to this, which is I'm not really satisfied with the linked post #103. To paraphrase, the explanation of the SR on Grandpa seems pretty weak -- nonexistent at worst and OMGUS at best. If that counts, I feel like I could point to any post where I have trouble interpreting Grandpa's post and saying that's me SRing him (obligatory disclaimer: I have for most of the game TR him but that opinion is sliding down gradually as time goes on)

pedit: Val and I on a similar level

Looking at 103, it looks like the main part where you talk about Grandpa is below (spoilered to try to control length).

Spoiler:

I have never lost a game with a D1 no lim on here.

Here

is where it goes from "what's the meaning of your vote?" to scum reading.

That's quite interesting, considering I haven't even found a game of yours that had a D1 No Lim. I guess you're 0for0 instead of 7for7

Why are they saying that they never lost a game that they've never played? (And if I missed the one where it did, why are they treating 1 or 2 as a rule?)

Yes, I lied to you, it wasn't just because I pointed it out to say "it was funny", I pointed it out because I knew this was going to happen, and you weren't going to realize it after questioning hence why I had to lie so I can drop it off. But since, it has escalated ever since, the only reason this conversation happened was because VFP did a no lim. It's really NAI, and it seems like you are trying to set him up as scum for it. Yes, maybe he could be scum however, this is something more of NAI in my opinion, and shouldn't be taken as a regard. Many people no lim on day 1 and many people vote on day 1.

We will all be voting regardless by day 1, so there is no point to continue this conversation. I thought you would stop because you would find it unnecessary and NAI to keep going about a specific vote, specifically a no lim.

But you didn't.

So I will give you scumpings for this. I don't fully scumread you because you initiating this conversation could be towny of you but the way you are handling it could be scummy of you if you understand.

Then there's this. I'm not sure if I'm somehow not understanding a couple of sentences in there or something, but I don't follow the logic at all. Frankly, this post just confuses me , and I'm struggling to understand where his scum read is coming from.

Breaking this down, the way that I'm reading this is, in post 87, Grandpa makes a (to be fair, confusing) post that casts suspicion on you and you say you don't get it. I do think there's an argument for SR Grandpa, but this one post as the main evidence is a little OMGUS-y.

[JamesTheNames]

In 145, I was just saying we had different reasons, I never commented on the validity of her reads.

[alstroemerial]

While I agree that there's no obvious good reason to withhold a read, I can think of some thoughts that it might be wise to hold on to. For example, I have been doing some thinking along the lines of "If ____ gets killed during N1, that implies ____", but I feel like posting that instantly makes it worthless because of all the WIFOM.

I've been having some other thoughts that I'm not sure if it is good to post or not, but the net sum of them is I'm less and less sure that pursuing James and Zyla is a good idea now that I've read things over and thought things through more. With that in mind and because I want to mix up the current momentum, I'm going to try UNVOTE: James and VOTE: VFP because I'm still not satisfied with the coasting.

[JamesTheNames]

I think its fine to holdback stuff like that. However when you announce you have something, I don't see the point in then hiding it, if that makes sense.

[Val89]

In 145, I was just saying we had different reasons, I never commented on the validity of her reads.

Correct, but the whole argument here is

how you knew you had different reasons

if she never really gave those reasons prior to that statement. If someone you had just met said "I like beer", and then another persons says "I like beer too, but for different reasons"; I would come to conclusion the two knew each other and had talked about beer between themselves either, or else person 2 was just bullshiting for whatever reason.

[Zyla]

Feel free not to read 184. Zyla here links to a post where she explained why she scum read Grandpa. Which is earlier than 145.

Zyla herself acknowledges you haven't explained what's going on here and asks for qualification in her #208, while suggesting there is a third alternative.

Zyla, are you satisfied with James' responses, here?

Not really. I was expecting that they would say that they understood my reads to be something based off of my posts, honestly if they had linked that exact post and said "I read her read on Grandpa to be OMGUS" I would've been fine with that. And looking back at my own ISO, I think that that's what I would've thought and said had I been Town!James.

I will note, that I still partially agree with my later reasoning for scumreading Grandpa, but honestly I'd put him at null-scum more than even a scum-lean if that makes sense.

[T3]

Honestly I don't think I've seen VFP coast ever.

[Val89]

Honestly I don't think I've seen VFP coast ever.

Would you classify how he has played this game so far as coasting?

[VFP]

You call it coasting.
I call it laying low and trying to avoid being scum read.