In post 182, Rhyme and Reason wrote:I missed you being obvtown, but then again maybe you always were and there was just a period where I stopped being able to see it
~Rhyme
*paranoia of being pocketed intensifies*
also like i know you laughed my semi-serious-semi-sarcastic post off in 181 but i am not Satisfied with that response. i know seeing a game from a mod perspective is different than seeing it from a player perspective, but i'm not still sure how you arrived at "datisi didn't care about how he was being percieved" so if you could elaborate on that once you and s_s chat, that would be grand
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
I feel like they're ignoring questions asked of them and opting to not provide content, and dont really have reasons for the things they're doing, and iirc mbos9 correctly this is characteristic of their scumgame
yeah pretty much, "no reasons for the things they're doing" is like textbook scum bugspray. i think in the micro blitz it was a similar situation. ok i went back to check, they did provide some reasoning with their votes/actions, but it was really shallow, and basically night and day to the towngame i linked earlier. also what correctly snapped me into scumreading bugs in that game was them making fluff / filler posts that, when asked about, said they served no purpose, and the fact that they're doing them again here is making me more confident in this vote
@skitter - interesting, i was getting a different feeling. the timing of the vote when you and i were pressuring there didn't ring to me as s/s, and i was thinking if bugs flipped red that i was ready to locktown rar. what do you see as partnery?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
there's been something that's pinged me as towny and I like your take on poblong and retti that I kinda vibe with but it's mostly the default townread thing
where would you wanna look so far in terms of scum? and what's pinged you about bugs?
~Rhyme
This is still a bizarre question to me given:
- i was voting bugs slready
- was sheeped by them on bugs
- they had a readslist like two posts prior where bugs was their biggest scumread
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
also posts from t3 are making me scumread him, but i recently ran a game where he was town and where i was scumreading him even though i had sent him a green role pm so uhh i'm gonna pause on this one
@t3, you originally voted skitt bc "fake helpful" since you didn't think bugs's vote on me was real. now that they've clarified that it
is
real, does that change your read on skitt in any way?
In post 212, Retti wrote:Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.
how did you get here? like, t3 tried to add to suspicion on bugs, but as soon as someone said that they disagree with t3, he just... agrees and calls that person townie?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
there's been something that's pinged me as towny and I like your take on poblong and retti that I kinda vibe with but it's mostly the default townread thing
where would you wanna look so far in terms of scum? and what's pinged you about bugs?
~Rhyme
This is still a bizarre question to me given:
- i was voting bugs slready
- was sheeped by them on bugs
- they had a readslist like two posts prior where bugs was their biggest scumread
not sure i see it? like, asking you about why you're voting bugs (even though he himself is doing the same) doesn't really ring suspicious to me since i've had it happen a lot of times that my conclusion about something is the same as someone else's, but i'm curious *how* did they get to that conclusion (unless you're referring to something else here and i'm stupid)
i would agree that "where do you wanna look for scum" is a kinda weirdly phrased question, but i can see town!mena assuming that "outside of bugs" is implied there so /shrug. still think bugs doesn't jump on their partner in that kinda flow of the thread, since iirc they're not really heavy on actual bussing, esp not without distancing
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
could you talk about your read on me? i'm kinda surprised considering your only post aimed towards me was kinda negative? and could you elaborate on your read on rar (beyond 185)?
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 229, Datisi wrote:also posts from t3 are making me scumread him, but i recently ran a game where he was town and where i was scumreading him even though i had sent him a green role pm so uhh i'm gonna pause on this one
@t3, you originally voted skitt bc "fake helpful" since you didn't think bugs's vote on me was real. now that they've clarified that it
is
real, does that change your read on skitt in any way?
In post 212, Retti wrote:Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.
how did you get here? like, t3 tried to add to suspicion on bugs, but as soon as someone said that they disagree with t3, he just... agrees and calls that person townie?
Yeah, I think skitter should be townier because of that, although I disagree with her bugspray read.
In post 212, Retti wrote:Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.
First, the only suspicious (I might have forgot something) on bugspray was skitter, who I scumread for suspecting bugspray. Second, when Tog disagreed with me I agreed with him and my scumread on bugspray vanished.
In post 212, Retti wrote:Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.
First, the only suspicious (I might have forgot something) on bugspray was skitter, who I scumread for suspecting bugspray. Second, when Tog disagreed with me I agreed with him and my scumread on bugspray vanished.
i was/am also scumreading bugs though i'm not sure if my post about that came before or after
what do you think about my reasoning for scumreading them? also do you like. even *have* any reads.
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 182, Rhyme and Reason wrote:I missed you being obvtown, but then again maybe you always were and there was just a period where I stopped being able to see it
~Rhyme
*paranoia of being pocketed intensifies*
also like i know you laughed my semi-serious-semi-sarcastic post off in 181 but i am not Satisfied with that response. i know seeing a game from a mod perspective is different than seeing it from a player perspective, but i'm not still sure how you arrived at "datisi didn't care about how he was being percieved" so if you could elaborate on that once you and s_s chat, that would be grand
can you really not just take me at my word for it? explaining things is so much effort
"hey, i know reading my read on you is your preferred way of reading my slot, and i know that i'm acting suspicious around it and that my read on you seems half-assed and designed to placate/pocket you rather than being a result of an actual thought process, but can you like, take my word for it?"
(the answer is no, no i cannot )
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
In post 212, Retti wrote:Felt like that was an attempt to join in on the suspicion on bugspray but the thought process here does not feel believable or organic.
First, the only suspicious (I might have forgot something) on bugspray was skitter, who I scumread for suspecting bugspray. Second, when Tog disagreed with me I agreed with him and my scumread on bugspray vanished.
i was/am also scumreading bugs though i'm not sure if my post about that came before or after
what do you think about my reasoning for scumreading them? also do you like. even *have* any reads.
Yes, I have reads. I think your reasons for scumread bugspray make sense.
okay, fine, but I'm going off memory and feel here and not back to look at exactly what was said
now I know that you read the mod pt where I commented more than once that I thought you and dwlee were more or less cleared from your approach to the game (admittedly, benefits of omniscience but still) and that was based on the way you were approaching the game. maybe the phrasing of "unconcerned with how you were seen" is poorly put, but the idea that I was trying to get across was that you didn't seem like you cared how people read you /beyond how it affected your ability to prosecute your own reads or to what extent it helped you to get a read on them/
take your approach to TLDNE -- they were looking very town imo, were widely TR by mid-D1 (and were correctly pushing scum), and you were very gung-ho in how you dealt with them as you went after your own reads. maybe my model of scumtisi is out-of-date, but I feel like you'd be more hesitant to pick a fight with a broadly TR slot with two strong players in it if you were scum
obviously it's not the same thing here *precisely* bc we're not as broadly TR as I think TLDNE was and the game is far less developed so far, but I think you seem much more interested in what *your* reads are and whether they're good or not than you do in how you're perceived. in other words, you concerns over how we perceive you (how I perceive you, maybe I should say) seems like it's much less because you're worried about whether you're fooling me or if I'm a threat to you, and much more about trying to successfully get a bead on my alignment given that I've been kind of ~wavy~ so far and not too serious
I also think it's time to out what I was talking about which regards skitt:
so skitter has made a point in our last couple of games where I was scum and she caught me of explaining exactly how she did so -- namely, she finds that I'm much more focussed on playing around her when I'm scum compared to when I'm town. I decided that this game I would try to *intentionally* replicate that approach that I take as scum to see if she'd SR me for it or not. my logic was p simple -- if she were scum, she'd probably think I was a bit off, but I think fundamentally skitter is more interested in being scum than in just replicating her towngame, and I think my being supplicant or sucking up to her more than normal is something she'd probably just accept if scum? at least for the early game, because she'd know she could always then try to pivot to SRing me/pushing me for it in the later game. whereas I figured town!skitt would call it out and call me scum for it early and fast.
the results have been... mixed, tbh. this is what I wanted to ask S_S about. I'm personally quite concerned that skitt only called me "a bit off" when I was trying very hard to make it look like my reads were dependent on hers and that she was having an outsize influence on how I was approaching the game (putting retti and poblong in my top TRs, changing my read on datisi to town when she disagreed with me and said dats was very town) and I find it further concerning that when I asked her for more on where else she'd look for scum she gave... pretty much my own scumleans back to me? which is also a little weird bc I think we're not that often so in-sync in games, particularly at the beginning
however, all this said, when I questioned S_S about it he thinks her take makes sense as town too, because he's doubtful (and I admit probably right) that I've done a great job of replicating my approach to skitter as scum this game, namely in that I've not really tried to be subtle about it whereas when I am scum I'm *actually* trying to fool her into thinking I'm town, whereas here I was hoping she'd think I was scum and call it out, at which point I'd drop this whole explanation and be all "boom, skitter is town everyone"
last point: I don't think that scum!skitter would just jump on me matching my scum!meta if she knows I'm town either, which is why I thought this would be a reliable approach. I don't think scum!skitter would be *super* worried about 1v1ing me at any point in a game, but I think it's reasonably unlikely she takes that approach to me unnecessarily? I think it's much more likely she just guides the game onto a couple of relatively LHF slots and either kills me while I'm expressing a TR on her, or keeps me around and 1v1s me later on
tl;dr did a gambit thing to try to read skitt, didn't really work, probably going to default back to assuming she's town and trying to work with her to get a read on her that way
I townread skitter. I initially scumread her because of the bugspray RVS thing but once that cleared up she swems towny by meta. I recently played an open with her and she scumread hectic by vibes but wasn't able to put it at anything stronger than that. She was town. That's what she's doing here. As for the hydra their posting is throwing me off but I definitely didn't like the "trust me" post. From what Datisi is saying about bugsprays naked voting it seems like it isn't AI for bugspray. I haven't seen any of their towngames so I'm not sure on bugspray.
In post 242, Rhyme and Reason wrote:however, all this said, when I questioned S_S about it he thinks her take makes sense as town too, because he's doubtful (and I admit probably right) that I've done a great job of replicating my approach to skitter as scum this game, namely in that I've not really tried to be subtle about it whereas when I am scum I'm *actually* trying to fool her into thinking I'm town, whereas here I was hoping she'd think I was scum and call it out, at which point I'd drop this whole explanation and be all "boom, skitter is town everyone"
It was weird and that's what i was thinking initially honestly, but it didnt line up exactly with how you do it as scum, usually the sucking up bits are more intebse
But as soon as you called me town on p2 or whatever that's the scenario i was worried abt, that you wete scum and were going to do the thing you always do
But i was also wondering why you'd do that given that you and i both know this is how i'd read you so i was kinda thinking that scum-you would try to be less obvious this time
So like you felt off because it wasnt the exact same approach that you'd take as scum, but like i can see scum-you switching it up and trying to avoid getting caught that way. Or you could just be town playing weirdly. Like i didnt really have a good way of diffrentiating
You said you 'were trying very hard to make it look like your reads were dependant on mine' which i did pick up oj but like it was less intense than how you do it as scum almost if that makes sense
But yeah given this whole gambit/explanation i think you're probably town now
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
@skitt, that's kind of amusing to hear you say because I felt like I was really taking the sheeping you/being attentive to what you think up to 11 this game compared to what I've done on the occasions when you'd caught me as scum previously.
also, S_S and I discussed it when I told him I'd had the idea and he had some concerns over whether it would work given that... well, you'd caught me doing it twice and also that he was literally in a hydra with you last time it happened so he thought you'd find it weird that he wouldn't have discussed exactly what it was that bothered you about me in DEFCON if we'd rolled scum here
I think I broadly like your response to what I was doing, but I'm still like a ~little~ skeeved out that you didn't lean on me harder for being off? like what did you think it was/what were you ascribing the weirdness to? I think you're normally very confident in calling me town when we're town together and so I'm not sure why if I wasn't triggering that response in you, you weren't more, idk eager to try and nail me down on what was different?
there is also some lowkey paranoia that I'm not entertaining today and hopefully we just flip scum so I can forget about it
I think I sort of agree with Retti that his progression feels inorganic or a bit forced, but equally I tend to SR T3 very often and I know he's limbait, and idk if he would be...trying to fake a more nuanced progression in his reads if he were actually scum? like his immediate pivots on you from "yeah I thought she was scum and then bugs said that their datisi SR was real so now I think she's town" and on me just above of "I didn't like it bc of the same reasons datisi gave but now you explained I think you're town" just seem almost too blatant to be coming from scum?
)