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[Cupcake Butterfly]

I could take more time to read SS, if I'm still reading Cyrus' posts and not feeling so strongly about him (and also not a fan of some posts) and Cyrus exists in a lot of PoE, then perhaps this is the best we can do right now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@ssbm re. #605: that post begins: "There is at least one scum in S&M and Distance."

If you believed that then, if S&M flips green why would you reconsider Distance if you're sure one of the two is scum and you (as per that post) believe both are scum?

Compared to if you had said just "S&M and Distance are double bussing" where a green flip means a definite need to reconsider.

Seems to me like that first line might be the cause of S&M's view that you're looking to chain mis-elims. So I don't think they're misrepping that post as wildly as you think they are.

Something_Smart is a good choice for today's elimination. I like your theory about the "that's gonna be my excuse" post.

okay yeah this is a reasonable explanation, I see what you're saying now

[Cupcake Butterfly]

I could see Kyouko/Imaginality but I don't know how that equates to a Kitty scum team.

I also don't think most scum players have the stamina to post-by-posy refute you, SM.

If you find any games I was scum in ELo (there have been a few) vs where I was town in ELo you'll know this is definitely town me (at least I think you will). But that's not important right now

SS feels like a crystal ball or a mirror in games with him.

You either see your own reflection or a fragment on what's to come. So far I've just seen a mirror. Granted reping into a game with a day left to its already short ass deadline just to be turbolimmed has to fucking suck so like, sorry if that's the case SS - please post soon if you can.

For non game reasons I don't think mastina will be vocal by deadline. My push means means even less than it already did. Mmm...

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon.

This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I'm not following the reasoning, but assuming I can at some point follow it, do.you mean it points to the current VFO wagon or to the E-1 wagon from.Daystart?

When possible
1. Metadive Kyouko
2. idk why i made a list, it's only one thing

uhh

I don't know why a game is so chaotic to sort after a D1 scumflip and there NOT be 1 deepwolf.

But I don't think VFP wagon is all town at all.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Presumably it's first to reach the tied amount.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

Nancy, our one brain cell is making a synaptic connection telepathically.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Idk what Cyrus is but he knew it was between VFP and SS and gives some nonsensical reason for voting us.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

Do you think scum!mastina votes.Flea for MO in the hopes that Flea will name mastina as fae's successor? I think mastina slipped she was unaware of the successor mechanic on D2 but it could have been intentional as I did suspect Flea was either scum, or had the support of a scum who believed they would succeed fae on D1.

[Gamma Emerald]

What are the votes at rn?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Nancy, our one brain cell is making a synaptic connection telepathically.

<3

Can we get one more vote please? Cyrus could be town but SS almost certainly is. Cyrus could also be scum. I have no clue.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

What are the votes at rn?

Rn, 3 SS, 3 Cyrus, so SS will flip unless we get one more. I don’t really have a strong read on Cyrus either way but I hard tr SS.

So, my vote isn’t because I necessarily sr Cyrus but I’m extremely confident SS will flip town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

Do you think scum!mastina votes.Flea for MO in the hopes that Flea will name mastina as fae's successor? I think mastina slipped she was unaware of the successor mechanic on D2 but it could have been intentional as I did suspect Flea was either scum, or had the support of a scum who believed they would succeed fae on D1.

Yes but you became MO not Flea, so why does scum!Mastina kill Flea then? Fae obviously had no MO to pass to her.

[imaginality]

What are the votes at rn?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Cyrus
I’m not as confident in the Mistyx/S_S TR but I do agree with it

[Smoke and Mirrors]

What are the votes at rn?

3 SS/ 3 Cyrus. But because SS had the votes first, he’s flipping unless one more.

[Cupcake Butterfly]

So Gamma, Nancy-Pooky and I are a 3-slot hydra.

Things I did not expect beginning this dayphase or beginning this game.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Cyrus
I’m not as confident in the Mistyx/S_S TR but I do agree with it

Ty, I don’t know what Cyrus will flip but I don’t know who is better but SS is definitely town.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

So Gamma, Nancy-Pooky and I are a 3-slot hydra.

Things I did not expect beginning this dayphase or beginning this game.

Sounds awesome. I’m definitely hard tr you now.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Cyrus

Why vote us instead of taking a stand?

Idk, I guess I could do either. What do you guys think? Kyouku or Cyrus?

I'm going to trust you on S_S, Cyrus is in my poe anyways and I do think he was there at deadline to bid yesterday but nobody else is gonna believe that lmao

VOTE: Cyrus

[Smoke and Mirrors]

VOTE: Cyrus

Why vote us instead of taking a stand?

Idk, I guess I could do either. What do you guys think? Kyouku or Cyrus?

I'm going to trust you on S_S, Cyrus is in my poe anyways and I do think he was there at deadline to bid yesterday but nobody else is gonna believe that lmao

VOTE: Cyrus

I just felt like he didn’t want to take a stand and didn’t really put much thought into his vote.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

My main gripe with Kyouko was the public justification to get hitman. It felt a bit like theatre using Cyrus as a scapegoat to acquire a scum-PR.

Hmmmmmm... But I don't have strong feelings on Cyrus either way, and while Kyouko doesn't give me warm fuzzy vibes, does that mean scum really?

I get why this might have looked like theater, because it was a performance. I was trying to corner cyrus because I had a suspicion about why he was around, and I think I did. I'm just not sure if I caught scum!Cyrus or town!Cyrus

Pedit: I think town!cyrus is not afraid to take a stand tbh. Maybe he just knew Kitty was doomed and didnt want to rock the boat

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The VFP wagon today:

1. post 483, mastina votes VFP for no reason: "If I had to take a blind guess of blind guesses, it'd be VFP + Cupcake Butterfly but I've got literally zero logic for this."
2. post 522 mastina invents some logic which conveniently turns out to justify staying on VFP
3.post 524, Smoke and Mirrors agrees with mastina and adds VFP's pseudo-vote on Misty as another reason
4.post 532, Smoke and Mirrors unvotes to look at CB
5.post 537, Distance votes VFP, no reason given
6.post 542, Smoke and Mirrors votes VFP again for the pseudo-vote on Misty
7.post 545, marcistar votes VFP and says if she were scum VFP would be dead
8.post 546, cyrus62 votes VFP wondering what the flip would mean
9.post 565, Smoke and Mirrors unvotes VFP because ssbm swung from pushing VFP D1 to not D2
10.post 671, marcistar unvotes because of being busy
11.post 679, cyrus62 quotes Cupcake's pro VFP post and says "no one should vote till we do reads better"

1 looks bad to me because it's not D1, there were votes on VFP D1 so claiming to vote VFP for no reason is lazy. Maybe too obviously bad? Add in that 2 seems like biased logic at best, and you can I hope see why I didn't like this from mastina. I have recognised that out of game stuff makes it difficult to push more on mastina today though so I'm parking this til D3, we have time
3,4,6,9 in the context of S&M's other posts seem like reasonably legit scum hunting
5,7,8 are all unimpressive votes from Distance, marci and cyrus, and cyrus's unvote 11 seems like sheeping marci's unvote 10

Distance parking on VFP and going awol is also a bad look.

Overall I don't think anyone on the VFP wagon has covered themselves in glory. Like even if VFP flipped scum this is not awesome scum hunting.

It seems we all agree on cyrus but actually look at this post and look at marci's vote and unvote, then immediately after the unvote she comes back and doesnt put her vote back or even comment on VFP, but instead provides a fence-sitting stance on me. I'm town and MO, so it would make sense to me if scum want to get me limmed but dont want to get their hands dirty doing it.

Marci, Cyrus, Kitty is a team with no MO candidate and would explain why flea and I were leading tvt MOs.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I could see Kyouko/Imaginality but I don't know how that equates to a Kitty scum team.

I also don't think most scum players have the stamina to post-by-posy refute you, SM.

If you find any games I was scum in ELo (there have been a few) vs where I was town in ELo you'll know this is definitely town me (at least I think you will). But that's not important right now

SS feels like a crystal ball or a mirror in games with him.

You either see your own reflection or a fragment on what's to come. So far I've just seen a mirror. Granted reping into a game with a day left to its already short ass deadline just to be turbolimmed has to fucking suck so like, sorry if that's the case SS - please post soon if you can.

For non game reasons I don't think mastina will be vocal by deadline. My push means means even less than it already did. Mmm...

SS/Kyuku/VFP must contain 1 town at least.

I'm not cool with leaving this to a 1/3 plurality roll. I will shift to -probably SS- if I must.

And I'm not cool at ALL with a no lim.

Also Nancy, this alt is mean to explore a different style with mafia. I may have the same tonal range as before, but I'm intentionally making meta a less effective approach to sort me.

Yes, I see. I tend to suck at doing that. I always think I’ll play extremely differently on an alt but usually tend to wind up playing the same.

This game is extremely frustrating. I feel like I’m always rushing and feel pressured to know exactly what I’m doing at deadline. D1 it was actually easy since Kitty was so obviously scum.

This reinforces the idea that at least 1 scum is a deepwolf, but i think another resides on VFP wagon.

This assumes that the ganeatate points to VFP town which I think is plausible. I feel like if scum could've quockhammered a townie, they wouldn't because thwy would knowingly get turbo limmed with deadlines this short and votes coming down to "3? You're dead."

I'm not following the reasoning, but assuming I can at some point follow it, do.you mean it points to the current VFO wagon or to the E-1 wagon from.Daystart?

When possible
1. Metadive Kyouko
2. idk why i made a list, it's only one thing

uhh

I don't know why a game is so chaotic to sort after a D1 scumflip and there NOT be 1 deepwolf.

But I don't think VFP wagon is all town at all.

Which VFP wagon? The start of D1 wagon that reached e-1 or the current one?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I don't follow Mastina's reads in congruence with her stance on the game. If she were lost or had little input, why are so many slots conftown to her? Why would she focus on a scumread that is already universally suspected (VFP) without really being in contact with VFP to deduce an alignment directly? More so, why tailor an associative between two more players (Cyrus/Me). The list feels convenient to navigate a wagon onto another player in the event of a VFP-townflip that I think is likely.

I'm thinking Mastina may have outside factors going on that could affect her gameplay (plus deadline is different than other games), but I've mainly seen Mastina-town as someone who is more vocal or direct in the thread with their voice - and I'm not seeing that here.

I also understand that I'm projecting in some degree... This is a play I personally see myself doing as scum.

I don’t see scum!Mastina voting Flea for MO then killing fae, I would think scum!Mastina would probably be voting a buddy. I think she actually did that in a game I was in - try to get her buddy into the top spot, so voting Flea for MO makes me also think this is her towngame.

Do you think scum!mastina votes.Flea for MO in the hopes that Flea will name mastina as fae's successor? I think mastina slipped she was unaware of the successor mechanic on D2 but it could have been intentional as I did suspect Flea was either scum, or had the support of a scum who believed they would succeed fae on D1.

Yes but you became MO not Flea, so why does scum!Mastina kill Flea then? Fae obviously had no MO to pass to her.

Maybe for the cop crumb, but I think what you're implying is right. Flea.would make a good townbeard for scum!mastina so the motive is not there

[Cupcake Butterfly]

VFP wagon that reached L1.

I feel like a townbloc is in the works. This pleases me regardless of how this flip goes, but I do have some tangible thought behind Cyrus-scum.

[imaginality]

If we take cyrus being around at deadline as scum-indicative that means they definitely decided to bus Kitty, yes? I don't think I'm ready to sign onto that yet. Whereas Misty was awol and I think D1 was more a case of awol scum than deliberately bussing scum.

Also hi imaginality

Can you talk about why you scumread my slot? I feel like you really haven't done that much, at least that I have seen

I don't have a super strong scum read on you, but I prefer it to ssbm or VFP. As mentioned mastina is higher in my scum reads.

One factor why I lean scum on you is this:

On SS:

SS town read VFP today, when VFP was already at 4 votes. But SS hasn't done anything to try to deter that wagon or start an alternative. I can see that town read as coming from scum who would know VFP will flip town but not want to prevent the mis-elim.

Another is Misty's posts about not bothering to scum hunt because this can be solved by PoE.

Another is Misty didn't seem to be doing much at end of day D1 and I feel like active scum would have more likely saved Kitty than bussed. So therefore I'm more inclined to scum read players who weren't doing much near deadline.