MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:06 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

In post 146, Almost50 wrote:(Town would have backed off once they realized why I put Umlaut on the list by mistake)
In post 147, MURDERCAT wrote:I'm not backing off because I think choosing the first three people who posted is a really easy way to fake reads
Where in here is it implied that's why I originally voted you?

I voted you because your first statement sounded like you were trying to make fake content. If you weren't I think you were more likely to explain the reasoning for your claim. The fact that you didn't bother to check if umlaut had posted anything while trying make it seem like your reads were based on content when referring to nom made it worse.
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:07 am

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In post 124, Almost50 wrote:Also: Umlaut, Murdercat & nom have one scumster between them. I don't think it's nom but I can't guarantee it either.
Why?
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:08 am

Post by Titus »

In post 135, MURDERCAT wrote:I'm saying that that rule isn't likely to be meaningful compared to picking any 3 players at random
In post 136, MURDERCAT wrote:(I feel the same way about your rule, sorry Titus)
Except my rule of 3 isn't random.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:41 am

Post by Almost50 »

Sorry this took me sometime to verify the info:

Exhibit 1 Cakez was Scum
Exhibit 2 Ircher & Flea were both Scum
Exhibit 3 Drapion & Gypyx were both Scum
Exhibit 4 STD was Scum
Exhibit 5 Kitty was Scum
Exhinit 6 NDMath was Scum
Exhibit 7 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 8 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 9 Korina was Anti-Town
Exhibit 10 Rule doesn't apply
Exhibit 11 Oka was Scum
Exhibit 12 Mini was Scum
Exhibit 13 We Brought & BBM were both Scum

Breakdown:
3 No Scum in 1st 3 posters
7 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters
3 2 Scums in 1st 3 posters

Average: Exactly 1 Scum in 1st 3 posters

I believe these were all the finished games I've been involved in during the last 6 months.

Final decision: Assuming 1 Scum in the 1st 3 posters works more often than not.

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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:43 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

Can you quote town games where you invoked the rule?
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:46 am

Post by Almost50 »

I suggest everybody check their last 5 games and see if Scum posted in the the 1st 3. If you get 4 games out of 5 you should probably vote MC here (or at least look closely at them 1st 3 posters(. If you get less than 3 games out of 5 you should ignore me. Exactly 3? Up to you. Just check your own games for funzies

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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:47 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 154, MURDERCAT wrote:Can you quote town games where you invoked the rule?
?? These were ALL the games I played this year. My alignment shows in every game.

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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:48 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

Did you post in the games about the rule is my question
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:50 am

Post by Almost50 »

I may have done it in some, yes, but I used the rule more often than I had spoken of it.

But what does it matter? Let's say -hypothetically- that this is the 1st time I speak of it, or even apply it. How does that change the fact that in 10 out 13 games the rule did apply?

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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:57 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

Because a quick ctrl+F shows that the only place you mentioned it that I found was in a game where you were scum: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12670363

(one of the links was wrong I think)

So I'm curious if you mention it as town
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:58 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

Also I'm not saying your rule doesn't work, I'm saying it works with any 3 players and isn't useful for that reason
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:01 am

Post by Almost50 »

Oh, well. You caught me. *Smirk*

But seriously; Let me get back to you about this in a few days. Remind me to.

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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:04 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

fair enough
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:21 am

Post by Ircher »

Day 1 VC #5Flea The Magician (1): Toogeloo ()
Xlos (2): DrippingGoofball (), Titus ()
Almost50 (1): MURDERCAT ()
Jake The Wolfie (1): Jake The Wolfie ()
Galron (1): Xlos ()
T3 (1): Galron ()
Titus (2): WhemeStar (), T3 ()
WhemeStar (0):
MURDERCAT (4) (E-3): Flea The Magician (), theslimer3 (), Almost50 (), nomnomnom ()

nomnomnom (0):

Not Voting (0):


With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to fade a player.

DeadlinesThis phase will end no later than Saturday, July 10, 2021 9:45 PM EDT or in (expired on 2021-07-10 21:45:00).
This phase will end no earlier than Monday, June 28, 2021 9:45:00 PM EDT or in (expired on 2021-06-28 21:45:00).

Moderator Notes1: If you have regular weekend V/LA, please inform me each week.
2: Please let me know if you have a different pronoun preference than listed below.
3: Thesp's vote counter is really picky. While I said I'd allow abbreviations, it would be very helpful if you try to conform to the spelling of the player's username as much as possible. Case matters as well.
If anyone knows how to do nicknames with Thesp's counter, please let me know. (I much prefer MathBlade's tool in terms of accuracy, but it isn't hosted online like Thesp's.)

Pronoun Key1: DrippingGoofball : It
2: Flea The Magician : Fae/faer
3: Xlos : He/him
4: Almost50 : He/him
5: Jake the Wolfie : Any
6: Galron : He/him
7: theslimer3 : They/them
8: T3 : He/him
9: Titus : She/her
10: WhemeStar : He/him
11: MURDERCAT : He/him
12: Toogeloo : They/them
13: nomnomnom : He/him
Last edited by Ircher on Sat Jun 26, 2021 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:27 am

Post by Almost50 »

In post 160, MURDERCAT wrote:Also I'm not saying your rule doesn't work, I'm saying it works with any 3 players and isn't useful for that reason
You do realize that a mean of "a whole one" is a lot more than the mean on "any random 3 players" (which is 0.692). Right?
And you do realize that the Stantard Deviation here is 1.209 which means the result tends to be close enough to the mean/expected value. Yes? (I do realize your "any random 3" has a SD of 0.961 which is even better, but considering your expected value isn't "1" that's still less than what my rule yields).

I mean, we're in a a Battle for Calculasia, so we're bound to use our mathematical/statistical weapons after all, and I'm applying simple statistics and probability here.

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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:45 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

You aren't doing the right math
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:53 am

Post by Almost50 »

No? Show me..

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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:54 am

Post by Almost50 »

Also IRRELEVANT: Remind me when your Open Draft Mafia is open for sign-ups of you will. I think I replaced into one earlier, but I want to be in the whole thing from the start

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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 11:56 am

Post by MURDERCAT »

It is now!

I will do the math in a bit, but it's mostly academic and not really game relevant
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:33 pm

Post by DrippingGoofball »

My husband is a statistician and I will NOT ask him to work this out.
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:45 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 128, Almost50 wrote:Edit: Vote changed to be read by VCer. Don't forget that case matters.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:54 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

In post 143, Flea The Magician wrote:I do know how to make 2+2=5 though :3
My 12 year old son taught me that 2+2=Fish.
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:58 pm

Post by Almost50 »

Let me simplify it for you, DGB:

There are 135 combinations (of 3) that contain exactly 1 Scum, 30 that contain exactly 2 Scums, and one that contains 3, out of of a total of 286 combinations in a 13-players setup.

That is to say there are 166/286 combinations that include at least one scum in MC's "random" theory. That's like 58% of all combinations.

My proposition gives 10 out of 13 cases which is about 76.9%

My "mean" or "average" would net one scum per set of 3 (first posters), while MC's would net less than 0.7 per set. So, hypothetically if we applied my method to 100 cases and MC's to 100 cases I would get 100 Scums and he will get only 70

The SD is smaller for his proposition, so his results will revolves around the mean (0.7) with less deviation than mine would around a whole one, but given that my mean is higher my proposition still gives better results over time (because mine revolves around one.. give or take, and his revolves around 0.7 give or take, and with a SD of 0.96 is unlikely to ever get much higher).

But if you don't want to work your brain at all, just look at my games to get the gist of it. There's a 76.9% chance there's scum in the 1st 3 posters (or if you choose to trust me it's closer to 80% over a bigger sample).

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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:00 pm

Post by Toogeloo »

VOTE: MURDERCAT

What's the case on MurderCat anyways?
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Sat Jun 26, 2021 1:14 pm

Post by Titus »

Murder panicking at A50 analysis.
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