Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[mastina]

Well I'm not scum; was Titus scum with someone else?

[Mia and Maya Fey]

Ok, having looked it over, i prefer an Moongrass lim to an NK15 lim.
NSG townreads moon but i think their reasoning is pretty meh, just meta.

I'd be fine with that, on the grounds that a Moon red flip leads to an NK elimination the next day.

Moon lost the farm once NK hit E-1 with the elimination moratorium lifted.

What does the last part mean?
And why should NK go with an Moon scumflip?

1) I think NK should go regardless, personally.
2) Moon bent over backwards defending them when I put NK in lolhammer range with NM in the game.

so i went back and relooked at d1/d2 house and what stood out to me the most was the constant appeals to Titus - this pings me as a player who is trying to set up an early pocket. Titus, I do implore you got look at that yourself.

And this post in particular popped out at me - this implies moon and house are not aligned together which solidified my wish for moon to NOT be limmed here ever.

House admitting they put NK at lolhammer range to bait a NM hammer when NK flipped an enabler role that ended up being linked to the IC is also fairly damning.

in short, vote house then gamma, win game.

If House was capturing me, I am still not voting gamma. Ever.

i implore you to vote gamma if house flips a role that can mess with a hider especially if our slot is nightkilled

[Mia and Maya Fey]

unless im getting played by a scum titus that played their hand well here in which case GGWP (stumps pls salvage if you can LMFAO)

[Titus]

i implore you to vote gamma if house flips a role that can mess with a hider especially if our slot is nightkilled

There's no evidence that NM was anything other than a troll n1.

[Jingle]

Vote Count 4.FINAL

House (4):

Mia and Maya Fey, Moongrass, Titus, mastina,

Moongrass (1):

House,

Titus (0):

Mia and Maya Fey (0):

Gamma Emerald (0):

mastina (0):

No Euphemization (0):

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald,

With 6 alive, it takes

4

to euphemize and

3

to have no euphemization.

The deadline for Day 4 is in (expired on 2021-07-01 01:00:00). At Deadline, currently No Euphemization will occur.

A Hammer has been achieved.

[Jingle]

House has been eliminated. He was

Spoiler:

Vanilla Town.

[Jingle]

It is now Night 4. Actions are are due within the next (expired on 2021-06-26 21:46:08).

If you would like a fast night, please ask via PM. If ALL players request fast night I will process actions as quickly as I am able.

[Jingle]

Northsidegal has retired from the game.

[Jingle]

Titus has been killed. The mafia faction of not known 15, Mia and maya fey, and gamma emerald has won!

[Jingle]

Endgame posts tomorrow, but mod and spec links in the op are public now.

[northsidegal]

In a normal game, a scumteam normally has the option of fakeclaims, but here there is no chance of that. A fakeclaim by mafia results in an immediate elimination

because it's known that town has no additional power past what the stumps provided

, and in fact the stumps can CC so it doesn't even out PRs if they try and there's no chance of winning the resulting 1v1 and no potential "why has the town power lived this long" argument.

this could entirely be my fault, but i was not under this impression, i was under the impression that town would have some roles besides the townstump roles. i don't think that it was made adequately clear that they would be the

only

roles.

anyways, good game, thanks for modding.

[House]

Thank you for the game, everyone.

Thanks for hosting, Jingle!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Too bad N_M didn’t play more secretly.
I assumed scum wouldn’t be able to interfere with the Gamma check so he was false cleared.

[nomnomnom]

GG scums
Thanks for hosting!

[NorwegianboyEE]

It would probably always be an loss even if we eliminated Mia and Maya here. Because Moon was also so heavily scumread. And even Mastina was more sussed than Gamma.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I do put most of the blame here on N_M misplaying his role.
You’re supposed to crumb your target and not make it the most obvious thing in the world you’re an hider.

[House]

I do put most of the blame here on N_M misplaying his role.
You’re supposed to crumb your target and not make it the most obvious thing in the world you’re an hider.

Considering Hider is crippled as hell on this site now, I agree.

In the original implementation, you could claim the role in your first post and scum couldn't do jack all about it.

[NorwegianboyEE]

At least my Mastina read accuracy keeps being 100% on point.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I also probably wouldn’t have townread Gamma here unless they got fake cleared.

[mastina]

Well we were pretty fucked there regardless considering Gamma wasn't voting House and neither House nor Titus were scum and the main proposed alternative to them as scum was Moongrass. (Granted, if it

were

a battle of Moongrass vs. Mia+Maya Fey, I'd eliminate Mia+Maya Fey 100% of the time as my townread on Moongrass was much much stronger.)

I don't think I can claim full responsibility for the loss as it was pretty much a collective town effort imo in everyone having fucked up in some way shape or form, but I will take a rather large amount of the blame as having neither of my primary votes in mylo be scum is a big issue, and while my third choice behind them was scum, it was still a third choice that I didn't properly consider and put the time into properly going over.

Obviously, there was some concern about my RL situation contributing to my choice there but that's a pretty shitty excuse so I'll take the (appropriate amount--not ALL of it but a big fair share of it) blame for the L.

[mastina]

(I think an appropriate amount of blame on the loss for me is 40-60%ish. A big share of it, I did mess up pretty badly, but not exclusively on me.)

[NorwegianboyEE]

I did mistakenly scumread House and Titus so i do take the share of the blame for that.
Of course you could argue my reads were technically contaminated from day 2 and onwards considering i just blindly assumed scum didn’t know N_M was a hider or could counter it. And having 1 scum fake confirmed by day 2 is a pretty hard thing to fight against when you literally don’t even know what roles scum would have.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Still though, don’t loudly announce your target when there is no reason to...
Considering one of the stumps already knew an hider would be in the game they would likely protect you anyway.
I would probably figure out N_M was my hider if he’d just said an name in Italics or that one should look down in the playerlist or whatever. Something that crumbs but not completely allows for scum to jailkeep Gamma or whatever they did to confirm him.

[mastina]

I will say tho:
I believe the setup was incredibly scumsided.

There is a DAMN good reason that scum killing roles (Vig, Vengeful, etc.) are, explicitly, banned from Normal Games and this game is proof of concept for exactly why that is the case. If you give scum an extra kill, you're literally asking for the scum to get a free win. Scum killing roles have a disproportionately high winrate; Jingle himself would know this considering that he ran a game with one and it was the freest scum win of my entire life.

Commuter IC might be unkillable conftown, but it is literally just one town player, who thanks to the scum being informed of the commuter and having a commuter enabler, they can shut down the conftown role and get a free uncontested kill there because the town had no roles beyond the treestump's submitted roles. So the scum's second role was incredibly strong, when their first role would've been enough to make the game arguably scumsided in of itself. I literally would call goonx2 + N3 strongman vig vs. town's roles this game, scumsided. No joke, that's how strong a scum vig is. The fact that the scum vig was there ON TOP of the commuter enabler is bad enough...

...But then you get the rolestopper which shuts down the town's only other role, and you see the direct consequence of it in this game, with scum falsely conftowned.

The scum could choose which member to eliminate D1 to remove the commute from the game, which makes it all the more strong. The scum could choose which member to make the rolestopper, so that they could protect the second-weakest scummate and be unlikely to be caught. The scum literally had more power in the game than the town did and the retirement power of a 1x doctor is, honestly, a bit of a joke especially given the scum's power roles were also a counter to that. (What if the doctor protected the strongman vig's target? A one-shot doctor, protecting the strongman vig's target. Think about that interaction and think, is that in any way shape or form fair for the town? Or fun for the town?)

All in all this setup? I'd give it like a 90-95% scum winrate. If you ran this setup 100 times, town could only win a small fraction of the games because the scum have more power roles than the town and their power roles provide a perfect counter towards the town's power roles and their killing role means the town has less eliminations than they should have.

But that having been said.

While this is an absurdly, ridiculously, beyond-all-reason scumsided setup...

...I would still say town can't blame the setup for the loss; we fucked up, and me personally I still take that 40-60% of the blame.

[northsidegal]

yeah this setup is ridiculously scumsided