Townstumps Mafia (Endgame)

[NorwegianboyEE]

Innocent child is generally an really bad role too imo. It's harder for them to read the game because scum will know they need to pocket them from the moment game starts. And depending on their slot it could have been an total waste to confirm them assuming they wouldn't have been obvtown by play anyway.

I think the only good IC role is one that get's automatically confirmed from day 2 or somewhere later onwards. As that means scum might try to push them as an mislim at some point, only to get outplayed by them claiming PR later or getting automatically confirmed at an point that would be unfortunate for the scum.

IC in general is an role i would never pick here .

[NorwegianboyEE]

Uninformed D3 mod confirmed Innocent child?
Maybe i'd pick something like that as an modifier if i had to pick an IC.

[northsidegal]

if i knew we were giving the only roles i wouldve chosen smethign different, probably loyal neibhborizer

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also an commuting IC is just another town stump except with an vote and can be killed.
When the game is supposed to have 2 town stump to begin with, adding another one just seems silly.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh and by the way, on N3 if there's no scum dead, that hider hiding behind the scum rolestopper? Can trigger an automatic scum win. So even IF they hide behind the right scum, they can end up actually literally costing the town the game. If the town was expecting only 1-2 town to die in the night, they could actually literally lose the game from it being 3. So even that 41.59090909090909% chance? Not necessarily a good thing for the town!

How do we possibly win if NM had visited us? Yes, we could have no killed but I think we would have been on borrowed time and probably so was Gamma.

I agree with thr timing part of choosing our roles but I think all of us we’re in agreement that who got what role regardless of that. We knew that NK15 was never endgaming - clear or not. He’s a frequent miselim in many games.

I think NM should maybe have been disloyal vig with a 1 shot bp maybe?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also an commuting IC is just another town stump except with an vote and can be killed.
When the game is supposed to have 2 town stump to begin with, adding another one just seems silly.

+1

That’s the main reason we killed dgb because we thought NM was disloyal vig and she was commuter doc.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Also DGB basically not playing and having no WIM whatsoever is probably directly correlated with them being given an confirmed town role. They didn't really care about the game because there was no threat to them and thus it was more boring to solve too.

[NorwegianboyEE]

An standard IC role that cannot be killed might actually swing the game more in mafia's favor depending on the circumstances.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Still though, good game.
Even if an loss is always bitter i had fun.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Mastina, I don’t want to fight with you and I wasn’t trying to insult either you or nsg but I was in a game a long while back on MU which was so unbelievably blatantly scumsided, town had a minus 0 chance of winning. Town tried to get through to the reviewers of said game but unfortunately in that specific instance - those reviewers clearly had their heads up their assess and ludicrously blamed town. Even the game mod in that particular case made a huge goof in the role pms that majorly fucked town, so while I appreciate yours and nsg’s long and valued experience as reviewers, the experience I had with that particular game on MU, didn’t exactly give me a lot of confidence that I should automatically discard my own opinion in favour of the experts and if you or nsg were to have ever reviewed that particular game, I would have been extremely shocked if you wouldn’t have rehected it. I had fun in it regardless but town had a non zero chance of winning that. Scum light have actually designed that game, that’s how ridiculously swingy it was. In short, I always trust my own assessment of things wgenever I’m at odds with any so-called “experts”. Again, not trying to be disrespectful at all but flpov, I just don’t qgree with either of you. I had no protection from NM - none. We had an RS not a jailkeep or roleblock.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also DGB basically not playing and having no WIM whatsoever is probably directly correlated with them being given an confirmed town role. They didn't really care about the game because there was no threat to them and thus it was more boring to solve too.

Loyal neighbourizer or mason is more fun but I would have had WIM but you really never want to be IC at any rate because you’re basically an just an NK waiting to happen.

Also, Pooky v FL was ridiculously townsided. Town had disloyal cop, roaming doc, ungated vig and a supersaint enabler, while we had an alien, supersaint and 2 freaking goons ffs! lolololol

And Mastina, I don’t recall you calling that extremely townsided, which it clearly was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Still though, good game.
Even if an loss is always bitter i had fun.

Sorry I was scum, you know I really didn’t want to be. I was extremely stressed out about NM ever since he said he was going to visit me, so I kept thinking how extremely unfair it would have been had my game been done and there was not a damn thing I could do to stop it because we couldn’t self-target, jk or rb him.

@Mastina, @nsg, you can ask Jingle. I seriously considered conceding after he informed us we couldn’t self-target.

[Moongrass]

Well played nancy, koba, Gamma, NK. GG.

It was a win win for you in the end, grats.

[Moongrass]

Also game not scumsided imo. We just didn't think it through fast enough. Nancy you should have let Koba play more

[Moongrass]

Thanks for nodding Jingle. As always it was both fun and disturbing lol.

[T3]

ow
okay
That loss was partially my fault for going AWOL and then not doing anything and got limmed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do not blame yourself for getting limmed here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The fault is the overly eager and impatient voting killers over here.

[jjh927]

Well, called it in the dead thread so that's something

[jjh927]

I think NM is the single largest contributor to the town loss here

[jjh927]

Also some examples of possible normal roles

Although I'm pretty disappointed with the stump roles too

They lacked imagination

Weak babysitter
Loyal friendly neighbour
Jack Of All Trades 1-shot alien 1-shot babysitter 1-shot bodyguard 1-shot checker 1 shot activated bulletproof 1-shot cop 1-shot detective 1-shot doctor 1-shot follower 1-shot friendly neighbour 1-shot fruit vendor 1-shot gunsmith 1-shot jailkeeper 1 shot motion detector 1 shot mailman 1 shot neapolitan 1 shot neighbouriser 1 shot psychologist 1 shot PT cop 1 shot roleblocker 1 shot rolecop 1 shot rolestopper 1 shot role watcher 1 shot tracker 1 shot vanilla cop 1 shot voyeur 1 shot watcher

[Titus]

I think that a good chunk of this setup was defined by elitism. Sure we got unlucky with the rand of NM getting the hider. Forcing a troll to play it straight was difficult for him.

People withheld information from those they scumread, putting them behind the eightball and preventing a changing of reads. No one really second guessed their reads but for me and jjh during the day we eliminated cyrus.

No one second guessed the gamma clear.

Pushing back on someone resulted in a scumread. Making the game full of cliques.

[Moongrass]

Hey hydra and Gamma why didn't you guys hammer me?

[DkKoba]

Hey hydra and Gamma why didn't you guys hammer me?

Precisely because of the fact stumps had an ability.
If it was a vig shot we were screwed.

[jjh927]

I think that a good chunk of this setup was defined by elitism. Sure we got unlucky with the rand of NM getting the hider. Forcing a troll to play it straight was difficult for him.

People withheld information from those they scumread, putting them behind the eightball and preventing a changing of reads. No one really second guessed their reads but for me and jjh during the day we eliminated cyrus.

No one second guessed the gamma clear.

Pushing back on someone resulted in a scumread. Making the game full of cliques.

Oh 100%

The given POE of me, Moon, Titus, House was all town and the Cyrus wagon was my attempt to work together
An attempt that was foiled by House E-1ing and inviting NM to hammer before we got any real discussion time on this development, given, although NM should not be treated as some force of nature that we can all expect to lolhammer because he is a person who simply purposefully plays in a way that is bad for town and so as a consistent theme I continue to blame NM for the loss of this game

I think I would have continued to TR Gamma tbh because he still looked very towny regardless of the clear- but I also would have completely disregarded the clears after NM flipped.