FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Caster]

I could just be right-town too you know >.>

[Servant Berserker]

Your entire case you’ve laid out is that we ignored your scumread and Archer is trying to push for me to be master. You haven’t laid out the rest of your thoughts, so how is anyone supposed to try and see them through your lens?

And as another note entirely, why are you expecting a likely seasoned player list to play inside a neat little box in the first place?

[Servant Archer]

are you scum-reading saber/me?

No. I think you are probably just town tbh -- But you and I did the same thing, so I reversed the question so you would see that it was a silly question to begin with.

You looked at the thread, stated that you think Saber is the best choice, and voted for them --- I assume, you would not agree to a town miselim day 1 if you were wrong.

I looked at the thread, stated that I think Berserker is the best choice, and voted for them --- I am hoping that you see now, that there is no reason why I would agree to a town miselim day 1 if I am wrong.


What answer were you even expecting when you asked me the question?

[Servant Rider]

I don't think Archer is scum.

Also, playing in neat little boxes can be very fun if done well.

[Servant Berserker]

Archer, do you have any thoughts on the convenience of the Miller claim in conjunction with Assassin? I was debating how scum would approach this, as I already laid out the postgame notes from the last game.

I’m not saying Assassin is scum either. I just wouldn’t be surprised if one of the main contenders did end up flipping red. Maybe some scum in the people arguing purely for a mechanical choice, and maybe one in the town leader side as well.

Pedit-
Not disagreeing, I just would not expect seasoned players without the shackles of meta to stay in their normal box. Who’s town and who’s scum, Rider?

[Servant Caster]

I looked at the thread, stated that I think Berserker is the best choice, and voted for them --- I am hoping that you see now, that there is no reason why I would agree to a town miselim day 1 if I am wrong.


What answer were you even expecting when you asked me the question?

To show some conviction in your town-read of Berserker?

Your vote is based on two things:

(1) You think Berserker is mechanically equivalent to Saber/Assassin, something that I don't think you've laid out good reasoning for.

and

(2) You think Berserker would be a good Town Leader because you believe they will work well with others.

You don't actually state why you believe Berserker is definitely town here.

[Servant Caster]

Your entire case you’ve laid out is that we ignored your scumread and Archer is trying to push for me to be master. You haven’t laid out the rest of your thoughts, so how is anyone supposed to try and see them through your lens?

And as another note entirely, why are you expecting a likely seasoned player list to play inside a neat little box in the first place?

I don't expect Archer to see things through my lens because I believe Archer is Mafia.

[Servant Rider]

Who’s town and who’s scum, Rider?

Idk. Your guess is probably better than mine. I haven't really been following the game.

I'm pretty sure that Avenger person was sketchy though.

[Servant Berserker]

Without us there are multiple others heavily considering making me the master that you would need to dissuade, those are who you need to outline it for. I’m not asking you to convince someone of their alignment, I’m asking you to do more than sit back and fearmonger.

Pedit-
Wasn’t a fan either, but who ever is a fan of Miller claims?

What do you need to get invested in the game?

[Servant Rider]

Do we get another 45 page allowance when Day 1 officially starts or is that tied in with the 42 in the vote count?

[Servant Berserker]

Page count restarts.

[Servant Caster]

why are you expecting a likely seasoned player list to play inside a neat little box in the first place?

I expect most players in the game to play like most players I've played with in the past because that's the baseline reality I experience.

I could be wrong, this could be the exception. I don't speak from a degree of certainty.

[Servant Rider]

What do you need to get invested in the game?

Idk. What can you offer me?

[Servant Caster]

Without us there are multiple others heavily considering making me the master that you would need to dissuade, those are who you need to outline it for. I’m not asking you to convince someone of their alignment, I’m asking you to do more than sit back and fearmonger.

Pedit-
Wasn’t a fan either, but who ever is a fan of Miller claims?

What do you need to get invested in the game?

? I'm not saying that everyone who votes for you is guilty etc...

I'd be more than happy to be proven wrong and end up with egg on my face if you are granted Mastery and shown to be IC and I would happily follow your leadership at that point.

However

if you are shown to be Mafia and I am correct about you, I will be grabbing the town leadership spot and hard-driving Archer's elimination.

[Servant Berserker]

I can quote a few random posts from different ISOs for you and you can share your thoughts, or you can talk about how you believe we should be choosing our master.

You are also welcome to address my questions to Archer- how do you think scum positioned around the master debate? Did they all take the same side, or divide and conquer?

Pedit-
And again, there’s one way to test that theory. My point isn’t that everyone saying I should be master is scum, my point is that you keep trying to draw associatives for how Archer and I could be a team without explaining what exactly it is each of us has done to seem scummy. But you are asking for Archer to explain his townread. There’s a double standard I am trying to rectify.

[Servant Assassin]

I mostly dislike posts #85 and #100, the first being what the kids call LAMIST and the 2nd is simply that if you are town, you understand the pull that would draw one to wanting to become master. Even if me and Saber did not have strong mechanical reasons to want master, there is a pull that wants to get townread and make the most of your slot, and becoming master achieves that immediately. The "Why is that?" from Lancer basically should already be understood from a town perspective.

Can you quote these posts in the same post? I play on mobile so that's hard.

Ok, I suppose you can have them here

I feel like I’m being pretty wishy-washy. It’s probably still better if I’m not selected, although I won’t say no if we’re prioritizing trying to hit town. I feel like I’ll be pretty obvtown which is good for that, but also I’ll be obvtown regardless and don’t need the master to confirm me per se.

It is more that it looked like they were overselling

This is fair. I feel like I have a duty to go after the master role and that might come across as overselling.

Why is that?

---

I think the risk/reward is in our favor regardless and I wouldn't mind voting there because it sorts them early.

I can't go along with that as it neuters my role and we can sort him by his content, which there is a lack of.

Generally a lack of content would make one harder to sort. Unless you are implying that I can be sorted precisely because I have a lack of content, which in general would imply you scumread me. Could you elaborate on this position or else clarify what you mean?

---

Giving this another once over, Lancer is pinging me for scum.

I mostly dislike posts #85 and #100, the first being what the kids call LAMIST and the 2nd is simply that if you are town, you understand the pull that would draw one to wanting to become master. Even if me and Saber did not have strong mechanical reasons to want master, there is a pull that wants to get townread and make the most of your slot, and becoming master achieves that immediately. The "Why is that?" from Lancer basically should already be understood from a town perspective.

Or maybe I’m not egotistical and don’t believe that I have to control the game in order for town to win? And can consider possibilities for other slots feeling the same way, so a player who says they have a “duty” to go for master either thinks very highly of themselves as a player or has reason to believe their mech will outweigh all other mech abilities.

Even further than that, the word “duty” makes it sound like saber believes that town would be hurt by them not being selected as master, as opposed to a purely self-driven reason for wanting it. So there has to be something behind that thought process.

I kind of agree with archer’s 213 re: saber.

Assassin’s read on me is trash and I’m fairly sure is designed to discredit me as someone who was being fairly widely townread.

I’m probably most comfortable with berserker being selected at this point.

As far as your ego is concerned, I thought you made a bit of a show of your magnanimity in your 85. It pinged me and I still don't like it. As for Saber's post, was it not clear to you that at that point Saber thinks "very highly of themselves as a player or has reason to believe their mech will outweigh all other mech abilities?" It seemed quite explicit and clear to me. The "thought process" you wished to get at was discernable already. You are correct that I had the intention of discrediting you; I felt it prudent to air that out and thought the town reads on you came too easily and were unwarranted. Despite this I don't have a full on scumread of you. It is in development. Your latest posts haven't moved the needle.

---

Hello, I'm here.

I am claiming Miller. You know what helps to sniff out a false Miller? Becoming the master!

My NP goes through this. I am surprised that miller would be a thing in this setup.

---

Does anyone have serious objections to Saber getting the boost.

I'd like to move on.

I'm treating the master selection as equivalent to an elimination in terms of informational value. It hurts the collective if there wasn't any competition involved. What makes this so different to you, as your desire to move on so implies?

Again, Assassins motivation was never the initial master. They admitted as such.

Lancer is the easiest read in the game followed by Archer, it’s part of why Moon’s readslist is so awkward.

I feel like you need to be more skeptical of people than just seeing the first layer of an onion and being like, "yup, that's all there is"

Who are you talking about here, me or Moon? If me (which I originally assumed), what layers do you think I have?

---

Ruler is obvious town. Although I haven't absorbed all the links, there have been parts of their posts that have exactly mirrored my thoughts to a tee. Reading Saber's recent posts still make me think they are town, so I am quite concerned by Ruler's assessment of Saber. I would like to sort that out somehow.

[Servant Saber]

I actually don't think Archer is scum. I feel like scum have a vested interest in ensuring I don't get to be the master so they can run over town. Yet, I feel the dynamic they are trying to push is me versus Archer and possibly Berserker. Town loses games when town engage in t v t fights and my duty is to prevent that, however I can. So while I don't think Berserker is the best choice, I want to make it abundantly clear I don't scumread Archer for it. Scum are likely in the sidelines.

@Alter Ego, Why do you feel I would be hard to work with?

Pedit, looking at that wall now.

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

[Servant Archer]

To show some conviction in your town-read of Berserker?

Your vote is based on two things:

(1) You think Berserker is mechanically equivalent to Saber/Assassin, something that I don't think you've laid out good reasoning for.

and

(2) You think Berserker would be a good Town Leader because you believe they will work well with others.

You don't actually state why you believe Berserker is definitely town here.

I mean, they are in my town reads for a lot of the same reasons I think they would make a good town leader.

The way they have been interacting with other slots feels like they are trying to sort people, and as a plus, a lot of our reads are lining up, so it is easier for me to believe they are genuine reads without ulterior motive.

I also find think that it is more likely for him to be town over Saber or Assassin because they are not so focused on convincing people they should be the master choice based purely on mech. Mech reasons to be the Master choice are super easy to fake.

I liked that they pointed us in the direction of Cabd's post describing how he would suggest town choose a town leader - I trust cabd's thinking in general, so I think that it was pro town to try and get town to consider that angle. I personally had not read that before, and was glad to see it pointed out.

[Servant Berserker]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

Name names.

[Servant Assassin]

As for Beserker's entry, I mean... I can't say it's a particularly bad choice, I mildly townread him. Not thrilled its coming in this late when I feel the opportunity should have more organically happened when me and saber made our bids. The only other option at this point I see town possibly consolidating around is lancer, should he choose to make it.

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

Name names.

You first.

[Servant Saber]

Generally a lack of content would make one harder to sort. Unless you are implying that I can be sorted precisely because I have a lack of content, which in general would imply you scumread me. Could you elaborate on this position or else clarify what you mean?

I was scumreading you because the only thing I remembered you doing was saying "I want master" and running out. Your recent posting has moved the needle a bit.

[Servant Saber]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I haven't directly stated my role...

[Servant Beast]

I believe Saber's claim and I don't want the scum team to derail it with a less optimal choice.

I haven't directly stated my role...

I'm aware.

I was using claim in the non-mafia sense.