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[Elsa Jay]

Why lol I caught you the same way I caught you last time. You're TMI-ing hard on Kitty earlier and hard defending a slot you have no business hard defending.

I always talk like TMI so nobody knows when I'm actually TMI. I also already explained why I defended Kitty to you. You started the game voting me because you thought it was a scumtell of mine to defend my scum buddy early, but since you now know I DIDN'T defend Max cuz she was scum, and barely interacted with Dwlee, what meta are you even using now?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Almost50 wasn't even your scum buddy

[humaneatingmonkey]

also already explained why I defended Kitty to you.

And yet now you're voting Kitty for reasons unknown

[ActionDan]

Well bit of a slog catching up.

Firstly its so nice just having some more sane people playing. I was slowly losing my mind reading the thread up until Iec's entrance.

I think Gamma/Iec/Titus/Cyrus are town without equivocation. Also very much liking Testa's entrance as well.

My priority is to sort Elsa and Kitty. Both egregiously play against their alignment whatever it may be, which generally I don't try to fault the players for but each has both had multiple games of experience on site and each has had the audacity on different occasions to refer to other players as "LHF" and "stupid town" and "miselim bait".

I have no idea how I will do that with Kitty. In a vacuum their recent vote looks both shallow, opportunistic, and not original. This lazy posting isn't new. Perhaps some sort of meta dive has to be done just like it must be done for Elsa.

I'm going to read the game Iec linked to see if this is standard for her town play too or if I notice any relevant differences. @Almost unless I missed it I'd still like a scum game of Elsa's. It's been my interpretation that your vote on Elsa is serious and that you think they are acting as they do when scum.

Finally with regards to HEM I will check whether his queries have amounted to substantive scumhunting or if they are but puffed up chestbeating as Gamma/Iec think. My impression of the slot is that I tend to agree with the content he says, which is always a good sign but have not established a stronger town read because of the way he says it.

I did not find the series of posts that made ndMath townread Titus particularly convincing. The first was nonsense, and the latter two are imo bland.

[Elsa Jay]

Because he's scummy, dumbo.

I only defended him to repay a self imposed debt because I felt bad. That literally had nothing to do with alignment of this game, I just wanted to be able to talk to him more to make up for last time.

I don't make plays like that day 1 unless I'm trying to be FRIENDLY to people and get to know them better. I defend people I'm either friends with cuz I wanna play with them longer, nice people who are ganged up on, or some newbies who I think can't defend themselves.

For you everything has to have an alignment purpose for an agenda or some shit. For me I just do things to know people better regardless of my alignment.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I think HEM is scum. Their content is focused heavily on asking player X to reflect on player Y, rather than engaging with what players have already done in the game. Further, I have not noticed HEM make significant use of what comes from their pattern of inquiry.

You're not seeing that I'm trying to get people to vote Elsa or make a stance about Elsa in the case of a flip?

[humaneatingmonkey]

A. I don't understand the Elsa wagon from people who know Elsa. (I can definitely understand Dan voting Elsa, but think this is due to Dan not knowing them.) I don't know what experience other players have with Elsa but think most know them.

B. I think Titus, Dan, Gamma are town. Cyrus and Elsa are probably town. Caveats: I've never played with Cyrus before (cf., lots of players allude to previous history with Cyrus as relevant for understanding Cyrus, and I'm missing all of that). I was also reminded of Elsa's early idealization of Titus when I previewed my post, so maybe I'm over-valuing what seems like opportunistic Elsa-voting.

Explain A and explain your Elsa townread

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because he's scummy, dumbo.

I only defended him to repay a self imposed debt because I felt bad. That literally had nothing to do with alignment of this game, I just wanted to be able to talk to him more to make up for last time.

I don't make plays like that day 1 unless I'm trying to be FRIENDLY to people and get to know them better. I defend people I'm either friends with cuz I wanna play with them longer, nice people who are ganged up on, or some newbies who I think can't defend themselves.

For you everything has to have an alignment purpose for an agenda or some shit. For me I just do things to know people better regardless of my alignment.

If you saw Kitty was being scummy, why would you discourage town to pressure them and get reactions? How are you "getting to know Kitty better regardless of alignment" when your move was actually to divert attention elsewhere?

[Elsa Jay]

Because I wanted to be able to talk to him so him dying day 1 wouldn't help that? What part of that is hard to understand?

He doesn't feel the same way and doesn't want to talk to me (again), so since he's actually scummy I'll get him now. If your slightly scummy day 1 but I like you I don't push you because I wanna play with you. That's how I work.

[NDMath]

19. Dunnstall asking NDMath about ActionDan is scummy (220)

Why is that scummy?

In general, if A asks town!B to think about C, this usually has the effect of B thinking A is more town and C is more scum, regardless of the alignments of the players involved. This is because B usually perceives that A has benign interest in them (which reads as town to most people), and that A already has suspicion of C. This can also lead B to attack C on behalf of A. Together, this has an average beneficial effect to A regardless of A's alignment, but the strategy is more beneficial for scum!A. So, that's why it's scummy. HEM has done this I think 3 times so far. Dunnstall did it once that I can remember. So, it's the pattern of inquiry rather than anything specific about you or Dan.

(There are other explanations for this pattern depending upon contextual factors. For example, A might be unable to feel interested in the game unless they're generating the activity being discussed, and use this as a way to motivate themselves. But in this case, town!A will follow-up on what's made from their question above to try to solve the game, which I don't see HEM as having done. Or, A might be town but very avoidant of conflict, and engage peripherally as a result, including via strategies like this. But, I don't get the impression that HEM is conflict-avoidant, because they have had a high level of activity and playful engagement with the thread.)

As player B in this scenario I do think it's nai or perhaps slightly town-indicative for Dunn which I suppose supports your point.
Though I do think your logic fails to fully fill the gap between "Player A doing this benefits player A regardless of A's alignment" and "it is scummy".

[NDMath]

I think Gamma/Iec/Titus/Cyrus are town without equivocation. Also very much liking Testa's entrance as well.

{Trimmed}

I did not find the series of posts that made ndMath townread Titus particularly convincing. The first was nonsense, and the latter two are imo bland.

Why do you townread Titus?

[KittyTacky]

To be nice. I can't defend I guy I don't "townread". So I said that.

It's not that hard. For guilt not-alignment reasons I defend a guy. What part of that is hard to understand?

[KittyTacky]

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

I just noticed that Lucifer has posted and it's just a naked vote

Lucifer is in this game?

[KittyTacky]

I am mostly a gut player, I will be honest. I am unsure how to feel about A50's catch-up in particular.

I like the honesty here but we will have conflict as I hate gut reads. Please at least highlight which posts give rise to your gut reads.

For Nero it's less a specific post and more like... his style if it makes sense? Also yes he's quiet but he's town quiet. I can't explain this but I do not see his posts coming from scum. His last scum game with me had a different style.

[KittyTacky]

And Gamma? He is very emotional. Again, not specific posts, it's his

tone

.

[KittyTacky]

I have 10 people who wanna kill me because I wanted to defend a guy. I hate this.

VOTE: Kitty

More like because bullshitting reads and being open and unapologetic for it is a scum move.

[KittyTacky]

Because he's scummy, dumbo.

I only defended him to repay a self imposed debt because I felt bad. That literally had nothing to do with alignment of this game, I just wanted to be able to talk to him more to make up for last time.

I don't make plays like that day 1 unless I'm trying to be FRIENDLY to people and get to know them better. I defend people I'm either friends with cuz I wanna play with them longer, nice people who are ganged up on, or some newbies who I think can't defend themselves.

For you everything has to have an alignment purpose for an agenda or some shit. For me I just do things to know people better regardless of my alignment.

To me it read more like a blatant pocketing attempt by scum.

[KittyTacky]

Also explain how I am scummy, Elsa. You wanted to talk after all.

[Elsa Jay]

If I wanted a pocket I'd use it on someone more useful then you Kitty.

[KittyTacky]

At this rate we won't be able to talk because you will get yourself killed D1, not me.

[KittyTacky]

If I wanted a pocket I'd use it on someone more useful then you Kitty.

Ah but anyone else doesn't have the convenient excuse of "I was rude to them in the last game we played".

[KittyTacky]

My priority is to sort Elsa and Kitty. Both egregiously play against their alignment whatever it may be, which generally I don't try to fault the players for but each has both had multiple games of experience on site and each has had the audacity on different occasions to refer to other players as "LHF" and "stupid town" and "miselim bait".

I have no idea how I will do that with Kitty. In a vacuum their recent vote looks both shallow, opportunistic, and not original. This lazy posting isn't new. Perhaps some sort of meta dive has to be done just like it must be done for Elsa.

I have mild ADHD.

[Elsa Jay]

And you instantly jumped on me yet again because someone elsa suggested it.

And if I do die day 1, because I defended YOU, then you'll remember you probably would've gotten killed instead if I decided to keep my mouth shut. Well maybe Cyrus but he atleast seems to be trying. You aren't.

[Almost50]

I’m sorry but you negated all goodwill towards you this game by mocking me like you did.

My remark had no ill-intentions to it, but if that's how you perceived it I apologize.

Also, let's leave this to post game (if you think it needs more to be discussed). I'll pretend this never happened (and lucky for you I do have a short memory nowadays)

[Almost50]

Gamma and Almost50 gives me scum theater vibes

the game where we both ruined (by SRing each other for -what turned out to be- playstyle differences) had just ended. Can we try again?

Which reminds me..

@cyrus: That game is over now. Can you state your meta case on HEM more clearly?