Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 1.04

Pitts Special

---

Elimination

GrandpaMo

(3, E-2): LunarRest, Psyche, T3

Psyche

(1): BlurryX

Not Voting

(5): Wayward Son, brookewyrm, GrandpaMo, ClarkBar, Nancy Drew 39

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

[Psyche]

i know these games don't have ICs anymore and it's a bit patronizing for me to type it this way but i'd like to see fewer people sitting on not voting
if every player just sits on the sidelines until someone makes some clear scumslip this could be as far as we get contentwise
to do the bare minimum to keep the game flowing, just figure out your best hunch for who's scum, try to articulate as clear a reason why as you can, and lay down a vote to show you mean it
it's a wagon not a marriage after all (until someone hammers)

[Psyche]

if i could edit my post i'd replace "every player" if "most players" and "to keep" with "to help keep"

[ClarkBar]

i know these games don't have ICs anymore and it's a bit patronizing for me to type it this way but i'd like to see fewer people sitting on not voting
if every player

just sits on the sidelines until someone makes some clear scumslip

this could be as far as we get contentwise

to do the bare minimum

to keep the game flowing, just figure out your best hunch for who's scum,

try to articulate as clear a reason why as you can

, and lay down a vote to show you mean it

You have been "ambivalent" in both your position and the reasoning for your vote. Your vote is on Grandpa. Be articulate about that vote and show you mean it.

[Psyche]

I already have articulated the reasoning for my vote. And I don't think there's anything wrong about being clear about how strongly you're committed to a vote you're making. It would have been ridiculous for me to suggest that I thought I'd found scum on page 2 or 3 or whatever and this idea you're stuck to that it's bad that I would waver about a wagon established in that context seems ridiculous to me too tbh. But otoh it's important to get reasoned-out votes down to drive the game. If you're town.

[Psyche]

oh maybe i'm mixing you up with someone else

[Psyche]

wait is this just me indirectly taking responsibility for getting us out of RVS and bragging about it???
ok sorry yeah i can do better than that

[ClarkBar]

I already have articulated the reasoning for my vote.

And I take it your reasoning still stands? Nothing else has come up or changed since 40, 43, or 44?

And I don't think there's anything wrong about being clear about how strongly you're committed to a vote you're making.

I'm so nervouss should I just unvote

You ultimately did not unvote. So I guess you are committed. So, bring a case.

It would have been ridiculous for me to suggest that I thought I'd found scum on page 2 or 3 or whatever

So what are you committed to?

[ClarkBar]

wait is this just me indirectly taking responsibility for getting us out of RVS and bragging about it???
ok sorry yeah i can do better than that

Oh ugh. Ok, you're right. My vote should be somewhere.

VOTE: Psyche

[Psyche]

imo you should also make an effort to clearly justify the vote with some reasoning
do whatever though i'm not your dad

[Psyche]

I need to digest a little before I change my vote. I'll try to get to know each user. Is it okay if I distribute that across several posts? I'm not gonna be able to do all this in one sitting anyway.

BlurryX

Post 131 was a whopper, eh?

Spoiler:

Sorry, folks. It was a busy weekend for me so I wasn't particularly active, but I read through the last few pages and I have some thoughts I want to get out there:

We have 8 days guys, no need to rush anything. Wrt to Mo, I miselimed him in a past game. He could be scum here or limbait. Some people are naturally scummy players. It would be nice if we had some time to actually see he’s really the best elim or not.

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

This post suggests town to me. If someone were scum, I don't know if they would be wanting to inject doubt into the primary bus this early on. It could be waffling, but to me the more likely scenario is town trying to play carefully and make sure that they aren't just getting rid of someone who is unlikeable but isn't scum.

The E-1 early on is probably a good thing, because it's the catalyst that is getting people talking (provided no quick-hammer). Without it, I'm not sure people would be talking as much this early on in the game (although I'm not super familiar with how the early games really go usually).

Thoughts on some other players:

@Psyche

Hasn't really posted anything of substance. Hopped on the wagon early (I guess technically started it, was he 2nd vote on Grandpa?) but I feel like RVS doesn't go anywhere without those first few steps. A few jokes, but nothing that can really be analyzed other than #67. Writing that, but not unvoting could be a way of distancing himself from any blame if wagon ends up lynching town. Kind of like a "see, I'm not a scum who was pushing the wagon, I had doubts about it".

@Clarkbar

Contributing more of substance than the others. I buy his reasoning for putting someone to 4 votes, as has been proven, it is a good way to provoke discussion, which gives more information to work with. I don't think there's anything I want to specifically highlight in his posts, he seems to be asking questions and sharing his thoughts, but I don't think there's anything I can see that tells me anything about his particular leanings.

One thing that did strike me was in

@T3

Similar to Psyche in that there wasn't much substance there, just hopping on the wagon and pressing it. Could be Psyche/T3 scum team (can two SEs be mafia in the same game?) but that would be kind of convenient.

@Grandpa

I don't interpret him voting for himself as scummy as you others do. If I could summarize his defense it is: nobody has built a convincing case on me yet and hammering me early cuts off any further discussion for the day, neither of which tell me anything one way or another. I'm curious to see how this develops over the course of the day.

@LunarEclipse

Self-deprecation aside, they've had one post of any substance #79. I'm not as convinced as Nancy is that this is a town-leaning post, because I think that assuming someone can't put themselves into the mindset of town just because this is their first game on this forum. I think I need to see more posts from them before I develop any ideas of leaning.

I think that covers everyone so far. For now I think keeping Grandpa as the lead contender for the guillotine is the right move, as they do have an erratic posting style that may cause confusion later in the game, but hopefully there is something more substantive to base a day 1 lynch off of in the next few days, and we haven't yet heard from the two AFK players.

- Comment about Nancy's 62 suggesting town because of its "no need to rush anything" isn't sufficiently fleshed out to me. BlurryX reviews two possible ways the post's could be interpreted wrt to alignment (waffling scum vs cautious town) but doesn't really explain why he comes down on the cautious town narrative instead of the former. So the read doesn't really engage substantially with the interpretive challenge or take us as a town anywhere beyond the fact of its communication. If I just take the comment at face value, it's sort of naive imo. Post 62 is pretty easy to fake as scum, especially if Nancy and Mo aren't on the same team.

- Comment about me is off. I think I've done a lot of substance so far! I feel personally responsible for the E-1 he celebrates a paragraph earlier. Of course I disagree with the idea that only my #67 can be analyzed or that I was being performative in it. In that post, I wanted the town to know the ambivalence I was feeling and to fish for more concrete takes on the wagon by posing this ambivalence as a question.

- Thing about clarkbar is a whole lotta nothing again. Okay you think he's posting a lot but he's null, got it. He doesn't even finish the last sentence in that section. That's fine, it's not illegal, whatever.

- Comment about T3 is really off to me! If we look at the Clarkbar read it's clear that "makes posts of substance" isn't BlurryX's guiding light for sorting between town and scum. But all BlurryX can say about T3 before suggesting that he and I might be a scum team is that "there wasn't much substance there". So what's the actual thought process behind these reads? And of course later on, it's Grandpa rather than me or T3 who BlurryX asserts should be "the lead contender for the guillotine", even though there's nothing else else in this entire post that suggests anyone has done anything he has found alignment-indicative!

- Comment about Grandpa again

takes a stance

on the possibility of interpreting his self-vote as scummy but fails to

provide justification

for the stance, much like his comment on Nancy's #62. The proposed summary of Grandpa's defense doesn't even touch on the self-vote so it's just a non sequitor.

- Stuff about LunarEclipse is about as helpful as the stuff about Clarkbar to me tbh.

So I should probably summarize this. There's this tendency among people to see a wallpost and think "wow effort so town", but imo this wallpost is all over the place. The reads are not really all that fleshed out (see my comments about his Grandpa and Nancy reactions), and the firmest stances among them (re me, T3, Grandpa) are pretty contradictory. I feel like emphasizing my section on T3 here in particular. There's a plain contradiction between his content there and his comments most of all about Grandpa but also other players too imo and I hope other players don't gloss over it.

Given all these issues, I'm stuck trying to figure out if the post is a mess because of inexperience I have to weigh his experience and check out all the other players first, but this is a really frustrating wallpost.

ah if i'm just making this post about blurryx do i even need the area tags? hmm yes i think i'll stick to my guns about the area tags

[Psyche]

sry that post was too glib i should not be in newbie games calling posts messes i will do better

[Psyche]

wow glib is not the word i thought it was. instead of glib i think i meant...insouciant. yeah insouciant i spelled that right. ok next person. wow i love small games i'm almost halfway through!

Clarkbar

Uh I'm not really seeing a post about Clarkbar that I really feel like breaking down, sorry. I think I agree with most of it, except the stuff about my unvote. Maybe if I weren't me, I'd agree with that too, who knows? I think I'd be willing to bet a lot that he's town, but it's hard for me to get motivated enough to explain a townread unless the person is at L-1 or something. I think a good way of summarizing it is that while when I dig into BlurryX's contributions I don't see a lot below the surface, ClarkBar's content seems to more clearly reflect an organically organized perspective on the game even under scrutiny. I guess I can elaborate more if it gets relevant but I sure hope the game doesn't get that boring.

GrandpaMo

I remember catching myself about #23 but there's really nothing there.

There's still a clear tension between #39 and #41 as far as the range of GrandpaMo's default reaction to shitposts is concerned. As I put it before, it's "kind of odd to go from deriding "the paranoia of dumbtells" about one shitpost to "i might just townread u off this" about another in the span of like half an hour". I don't think it's enough to base a lynch on at all, though. After all, maybe the difference in reactions is just a different in appraised humor between the two posts.

A secondary issue I had with #41 in particular is that it seemed sort of artificial on its own and I still feel that way, especially in light of the above tension. #41 seemed too...effusive about a pretty ordinary joke, I think. But whatever, it's time we move on from that.

(Also woah the idea that T3 just blindly wagoned that I've seen in other posts is false! He had a whole separate justification for the vote!)

#46 establishes that he interprets the vote(s) as unserious, at least ambivalently. Goes on to like 91? Maybe further. Okay where's the content I'll scroll a little.

Something in #113 striked me as kinda silly when I read it:

can ANYONE give me a reason they scumread me?

...

Can anyone give me a SCUMCASE on me OTHER than psyche?

That's no scumread though, just odd rhetoric. The post also misstates T3's justification for their vote. In general though, makes clear that GMO is following at least and offers a defense for his behavior "I thought we were all just memeing!". Poor guy's acting like this was his first RVS. People taking an unserious post seriously is always how these games get rolling, no?

The wallposts are kind of tough to get into after having already gotten into another one so recently but they don't seem bad or fake, sure. Even as GMO keeps elaborating on the conditions of his posts and his reactions to our votes, nothing pops up that suggests his account is artificial. It's of course quite possible for mafia to sincerely believe in their defenses though; they can believe a case for thinking they're scum is bad even as they know they are scum. So I'm not gonna go townreading him for this.

His quotes of BlurryX just remind me of how off I find BlurryX's reads. GMO's erratic? I guess if you're still living in the first couple pages of this thread.

#142 is bread and butter stuff, though not much of it. Okay, I guess I lean town. Does the unvote tag exist?

UNVOTE:

Wow technology these days sure is something.

LunarRest

#79 is really all we have from LunarRest and it's fine. I'm not like impressed by it in the sense that I don't agree with their mindset/approach to the game but #79 is fine in terms of alignment-indication.

Nancy Drew 39

Wow I'm so close to actually finishing. Okay let's do this.

Hmm pretty terse early okay. I've already stated my feelings about #62; it's not alignment indicative in a clear way. Wow #74 is just a naked vote interesting. Oh #76:

He isn’t playing extremely differently here from the game I miselimed him in so I’m wary.

I hate this. Why move my vote? E-1 is fun!

VOTE: GrandpaMo

This post is ick.

Hmm not that much better but it is better ok.

VOTE: GrandpaMo

i agree wagons are better

LOL thats actually funny -- i might just townread u off this

That’s an NAI post, Psyche’s I mean, so I don’t see how you read that as AI?

#85 is a sort of late reaction but a good question (though it probably would have seemed hyperbolic if she'd made it on the same page #41 happened; actually probably the sort of question to kick us out of RVS?).

#88 reads Lunar's post about the same way I did but a bit more firmly, and I do like that. "Mind meld"?

Clear subtext of history between Nancy and GMO that's useful for tracking the tone of her dialogue with him. She's a little more biased to read insouciance into his posts (I found another use for the word! Wait did I go with flippant or insouciant in that other post?).

Hmm overall nancy's posting is too terse for me to get a sound read off her despite her steady flow of content. But the stuff in her iso that seems useful for sorting gives off town smells.

T3

Gosh area tags are neat. Have I already said that?

T3's iso is easier to read because he doesn't have a sig. Maybe I should ditch mine. Maybe I try to get sigs banned.

I like #45 but who doesn't like it when someone agrees with and wagons with you?

A bit less content after that than I thought I'd see.

Grandpa perspective slipping and then posting walls.

Fun fun.

Grandpa has basically scumclaimed at this point.

God I sure hope he finds the time to elaborate on 118 and 120 because those are pretty strong accusations. I don't even know what perspective slipping means, but it sure sounds serious.

I thought I'd have an easier time sorting T3 but I guess he stopped multiposting after RVS ended. Really am a bit invested in seeing what comes of 118/120.

That's everyone! Guess I'm a BlurryX hater now. VOTE: BlurryX

[T3]

UNVOTE:
You knowwhen someone's post pings you, and then when you scroll down that post someone else also got the same ping?That's the kind of feeling I'm getting with Psyche so I think he's town.

[T3]

So basically Grandpasaid "I know his alignment and he knows mine" The he was referring to me.. and I was voting him. I'm voting him, and he's nodding along saying, yes, you know my alignment.

[LunarRest]

UNVOTE:

I lean to likely at least one scum on Mo wagon. Don’t think it’s Lunar or probably not Clark anymore.

What are the chances that T3 is scum with how he did seem "gleeful" (as someone has said already) at the chance of GrandpaMo getting eliminated. If you look at his ISO he's pretty convinced that Psyche is town and that GrandpaMo is scum and was even pushing hard with #118, #120. But I'm thinking he could just be the type of person who comes to hold strong beliefs so quickly (I mean, atleast in terms of people's alignment in Mafia Games). But I wonder if T3 thought that he could pounce on someone who he thought wouldn't be defending himself well and so pounced on GrandpaMo, and this whole "I hold strong beliefs so early" thing is just an act to cover the thing that he's pushing an elimation wagon on a town as a scum? I don't really know how T3 plays usually though.

[LunarRest]

So basically Grandpasaid "I know his alignment and he knows mine" The he was referring to me.. and I was voting him. I'm voting him, and he's nodding along saying, yes, you know my alignment.

I don't get the point of this post.

[GrandpaMo]

wait im so fucking confused.

[GrandpaMo]

i love how i go from being to e-1 to everyone literally just reiterating my posts etc and sorta sheeping


thats literally how i see it. if thats not town than shit idk what is

[GrandpaMo]

UNVOTE:
You knowwhen someone's post pings you, and then when you scroll down that post someone else also got the same ping?That's the kind of feeling I'm getting with Psyche so I think he's town.

So basically Grandpasaid "I know his alignment and he knows mine" The he was referring to me.. and I was voting him. I'm voting him, and he's nodding along saying, yes, you know my alignment.

like wtf is this????
pls explain t3 (((


this is like the third time u do this

u vote me
scumread me

then i push u
then someone townreads me (which i end up being town)

u then unvote me

then later on u get to townread me

[GrandpaMo]

i will respond to psyche's weird wallpost later when i come back around from work -- theres a few points i want to really hit at

`post reminder`

[Psyche]

i prefer the term kooky ty

[T3]

o

[ClarkBar]

o

QFT

[ClarkBar]

imo you should also make an effort to clearly justify the vote with some reasoning
do whatever though i'm not your dad

Fair. Perhaps the most important thing I should never do is drink and post. I'll keep my vote though.

1. While you did provide reasoning for voting Grandpa it was thin. Acceptable, but thin. Whether or not to keep your vote on Grandpa when he got to E-1 based on your reasoning is up to you. Asking the town what you should do struck me as disingenuous. It felt like feigned concern while you had no intention of removing your vote. I may be wrong, but that is how it seemed to me.

2. When I iso you I don't see much in terms of contribution before 151 which was indeed a little patronizing but that's cool considering your experience. It bothered me for other reasons. Yes you got on a wagon with a reason, but you never really followed up from there. You describe the wagon as "the best wagon" but never engage with Grandpa. You don't ask him any questions or try to explore what is happening in with his wagon.

3. You only unvote when I unvote. You don't refer to any specific action by Grandpa or anyone else.

I feel personally responsible for the E-1 he celebrates a paragraph earlier.

How so? By virtue of being the second player on the wagon?

On another note we are at over 72 hours with only 7/9 reporting. That kinda feels bad.