Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

[Roden]

I'm so embarrassed. I've been referring to the wrong game the entire time lmao. 2066 Gelato is what I've been referencing, sorry everyone.

[JamesTheNames]

Meta is valid ^.

[Roden]

Meta is valid ^.

What is this in response to?

[JamesTheNames]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, you're panicking like someone who is in hammer range. Pretty sure James is getting elim'd today at this rate.

I’ve been miselimed before. In Timeshift, I had 3 votes on my slot and handled that completely differently. Want to guess how that turned out? I got run up and 2 days later the slot that correctly hard tr me also got miselimed.

So being chill about viotes only got me miselimed,

Wait are you at E-2? I thought someone unvoted. If not then ok this is valid.

I'm having a hard time following what you find fishy about my reads around you nancy but I think we're just reading the situations differently. I think the case against you is not very good, but I will not rule out the possibility that you're scum. I can see why a position like that might seem opportunistic for scum, but it's also what I'm sincerely feeling atm. I sure wish I could put that one emoji right here. The one with the shrugging.

Why does scum!me voice concern about a possible miselim on Mo, unless you actually think we’re buddies , what possible scum motivation could I possibly have?

And if anyone is going to claim some kind of bs towncred, then I ask why would I have even needed that since no one was even sr me at the time. I’m asking you Psyche, if you’re town to explain the scum motivation in ANY of my posts.

Hate to bring up T3 in 2065 again. But this is actually exactly what he did in that game. He was a top town read yet still saved a townie from E-1 on Day 1 by making a meta case for them (as well as fake softing Masons). So I wouldn't rule that out here.

Alright fair enough but I’m not T3, so you can believe that because of my mistake in that game I didn’t want to see it repeated or I’m doing this as scum. Which do you think makes more sense? Should I have said nothing and not voice my suspicions that he might possibly be a miselim?

It’s seriously freaking me out how off the charts bleeding obvtown I am and still having to fight off sr. I haven’t been so wrongly misread since the MU game where I wrongly defended scum and wound up being the game losinf miselim. This is beyond mind blowing. If I was actually scum here, I wouldn’t bother to make these kinds of waves and no one would be even remotely sussing me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

I’m voting you because you refuse to click that link which 100% disproves your entire case on me. And @Roden. I’m town, so if I’m miselimed D2 or any day, I’m still 100% flipping town.

[Roden]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

Oh. Uh ok.

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

I’m voting you because you refuse to click that link which 100% disproves your entire case on me. And @Roden. I’m town, so if I’m miselimed D2 or any day, I’m still 100% flipping town.

Well I mean, I don't expect you to say otherwise lol. But I'm not really worried about D2 tbh, and you shouldn't either if you think James is scum. The only reason you should be worried is if you expect him to flip town despite your vote on him. Because if he flips scum I don't see anyone accusing you of scum theater with him and then bussing him. That would make zero sense no matter anyone's perspective on what happened.

[Roden]

Just rechecked the votes, there's only two votes on you right now Nancy. Psyche is considering you but they still have their vote on James. Speaking of which...

James is at E-1. The next vote will hammer.

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 1.10

MiG-21

---

Elimination

JamesTheNames

(4, E-1): Psyche, Roden, T3, Nancy Drew 39

Nancy Drew 39

(2): Val89, JamesTheNames

Psyche

(1): ClarkBar

Not Voting

(2): GrandpaMo, Chuck Shurley

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-06 10:00:49).

Mod notes:

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

[Val89]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

Oh. Uh ok.

It was a sarcastic comment regarding 500 I apologise.

I’m voting you because you refuse to click that link which 100% disproves your entire case on me. And @Roden. I’m town, so if I’m miselimed D2 or any day, I’m still 100% flipping town.

Well I mean, I don't expect you to say otherwise lol. But I'm not really worried about D2 tbh, and you shouldn't either if you think James is scum. The only reason you should be worried is if you expect him to flip town despite your vote on him. Because if he flips scum I don't see anyone accusing you of scum theater with him and then bussing him. That would make zero sense no matter anyone's perspective on what happened.

I think it’s likely he’s scum but people can’t see I’m town, so I think I have good reason to think I could be a miselum irrespective of his flip.

[Val89]

James,

Given your slot is now in hammer-range, would you mind both claiming, and also answering the following?

Before you replaced in, I was very lightly scumreading your slot, based almost entirely on the confused reads your predecessor gave us on T3 and Grandpa. I don't think it's fair to read your slot based on what might have been a communication thing, so I'm resetting that read to null, but could you give us your reasoning for TR/TL'ing those two if that is what you are doing?

If you have answered and I missed it, sorry; but I only see confirmation in your ISO that you are townreading or townleading both (360) and no explanation as to why.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

[Val89]

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them.

This is the point, Nancy, I've tried and I'm struggling to find them. If you do think it's very easy, would you please indulge me? I'm trying to find reasons to believe what you are saying here...

Also, WIMk?

[JamesTheNames]

James,

Given your slot is now in hammer-range, would you mind both claiming, and also answering the following?

Before you replaced in, I was very lightly scumreading your slot, based almost entirely on the confused reads your predecessor gave us on T3 and Grandpa. I don't think it's fair to read your slot based on what might have been a communication thing, so I'm resetting that read to null, but could you give us your reasoning for TR/TL'ing those two if that is what you are doing?

If you have answered and I missed it, sorry; but I only see confirmation in your ISO that you are townreading or townleading both (360) and no explanation as to why.

I was a bit tunnel visioned on proving Nancy wrong but I'll answer it now sorry for the wait.

T3, if you're doing what I think you're doing I'm gonna laugh my ass off so hard.

If he

is

doing what I think you think that T3 is doing, do we think that scum don't already think that he was doing what I think that you think that he was doing, and thus we should probably confirm one way of another?

If I am thinking it's the same thing you and Roden have, you can probably see how I read T3 and why I'm reluctant.
For GrandpaMo he actually seems to be trying to game solve and scum hunt, even if its sporadic and weird. 397, 381, 312, 290, 255, 252 as some examples.

While I'm also here:
ClarkBar and Val89 are my 2 other confident town sided people in my eyes.
Val89 is trying to solve, a lot. 511, 509, 417, 409, 366, 296, 292. As some examples
ClarkBar is doing the same, but maybe not as much. 404, 345, 342, 221, 174. As examples.

Although actually while trudging through some older posts:

Regarding the alt thing. I was annoyed that Nancy used a past experience with Grandpa to defend/justify the gameplay style they were using that got them to E-1 fairly quickly but then decided to not disclose the game in question. I wanted to skim that game for similarities to this one to get a better read on if what Nancy was saying was true and informed this game and Grandpa's play-style better. Why bring it up if we can only take her word for it? It felt to me that Nancy was advocating for Grandpa during his push and that pinged me so I wanted to explore their past relationship/interactions.

Ultimately I was too lazy to sleuth the game out, and I wasn't motivated to bother Nancy about it.

Seemed like a dead end. I will check out the link provided by Val later.

Nancy do you have some reason not to scum read/scum lean ClarkBar for the bolded section? Boiled down the only difference between the bolded section and what I'm doing is I'm voting you. So either this means you would scum read ClarkBar for this, or you're just OMGUS voting me.

[JamesTheNames]

Nancy,

Alright; James has said several times they don't beleive meta reads are ever helpful in sorting slots, but I disagree because I've read games where they have been.

Providing one link to one game where you do something being read as scummy as town and then say "see, it actually makes me town, and everyone who's played with me before who doesn't see that must be scum" isn't going to wash however.

Before I could even entertain that, I would need to see at least

2

(not just one) town games, and at least one scum game where you

don't

do the said OMGUS-ing (although I disagree that's the correct term for what's happening). I made an attempt to fish them out myself but I've so far come across team games and stuff with weird 'stump' mechanics and other business I can't really get my head around to decide what your alignment actually was in order to follow the games. Since you obviously have a better command of the games you've played in, would you be able to provide links to another town game, and at least one fairly recent scum game where you don't do this?

Can you also explain, if you omgus sr/vote in pretty much every game(456), or use your vote as a device to stop you "doing something actually toxic" in response to a pecieved push (474), what do you consider the town utility to the back and forth you had with Psyche about the utility of splashing your vote around without being confident it's landing on scum in 183-188?

There are tons of games where I do this and if you do the metadive, you will very easily find them. My point is it happens in most of my games so James is sr me off of playstyle basically, so it’s actually a lot more than just meta.

I voted you because you were really upsetting me earlier and when I tried to get you to stop by saying I would ignore you, you just kept continuing and I was literally on the verge of losing it on you because of it. I wanted you to stop because I didn’t want to say anything that could possibly get me banned from this queue. I wouldn’t say that part was typical. I legit did feel bullied and intimidated by the specific way you were engaging with me, not the sr part. You were like, if you don’t do what I think you should do and be an outright masochist, I’m scum and I didn’t think I should have to put up with that.

That is a very fair question. When I’m not being tunneled, it’s not atypical for me not to vote, so that is true but the fact is I can easily obvtown but being consistently wrongly sr, which I feel has been the case in this game, really kills my WIMk especially when I honestly don’t feel I’ve done anything to warrant it. I got miselimed in a game on MU because nobody would listen to me and I eventually got so disheartened, I gave up and this game is strongly reminding me of that game. When you’re telling the truth and people think you’re lying no matter what you say, you just stop trying. One player actually said to me in that game, that he’d seen nothing good from me”, which completely adversely affected my play. Even when the NK was literally the same person who stopped my miselim on D1, nobody believed me even after that and that’s how I’m feeling rn that people can’t see that I’m telling the truth about my alignment, I don’t see how I don’t get miselimed at some point because I stop caring and that obviously makes everything just worse but I really do feel I’m not being listened to in this game and I just don’t know how to get through to people that I really am town. :/

Psych should never be sr me for the things that Val outlined in red because I deathtunnelled a slot in both Forrest Fire and the tm game. In both cases, they flipped town but you outright refusing to click that link to my tm game - which completely dismantles the case anyone is sr me here for and anyone who’s actually town and isn’t okay with potentially miseliming me absolutely needs to read it.

Once again I implore you to point out a single town sided thing you've done this game. You're relying on meta instead of actually being town sided. You aren't trying to help town, you just want to coast/lurk.

Let's say somebody doesn't have the time to read over all of your previous games, they may be busy with exams, work, maybe they just don't dedicate a lot of time to mafia. Why don't you show this hypothetical player something you've done this game that makes you town?

You haven't done anything to convince people you're town apart from "REEEEEEEEEE look at my meta, YOU AREN'T READING MY CHERRY PICKED META YOU SCUM!". So once again if someone doesn't have the time, why would they think you were town from this game Nancy?

[T3]

Correct me if I'm wrong but in 2068 James had way longer posts.

[T3]

Meta is very good.

[JamesTheNames]

I'm just going to summarise what Nancy has against me and to show it isn't valid.
I get voted in 443, I joined in 326. Time to analyse everything relevant between those 2 points:
359 is asking why I didn't list town reads. Response from me was 363. 435 is her understanding why I didn't list town reads. NAI or indicative of a case.
360 was asking for a clarification because of accidentally opening the wrong post. 434 is her understanding more of what I meant by Psyche scum slipping as if being told to do something by the scum chat.
437 she starts asking for a metadive instead of defending herself properly.
438 accuses me of only voting Nancy because Val89 did.
443 votes me.
So clearly the reason she scum reads me should be between 437 and 443, or it is entirely because I voted just because Val89 did? Which isn't the case, why would I have gone this far if that was the only reason?
I have 2 posts between 437 and 443.
441 "The more you rely on meta for a town case the more obvious it is to me you're scum because you can't come up with anything else."
442 "I'm not going to waste my time and go through your old games, to use an inaccurate, unreliable way of getting reads, just because you don't want to do anything town sided."
There are 3 options as to why she is scum reading me, because she thinks I'm voting just because Val89 did, she thinks I'm scum for refusing to use her cherry picked meta over reading her actual posts and input this game, or she's doing it because I scum read her.
The first one, regarding Val89 voting first and me copying, would make no sense because I've taken it a few miles further.
The second one, I've been explaining for a long while why it's silly, Val89 has also started this and his 509 is actually a lovely explanation, I did similar in 451 but Nancy purposely ignored it as she has done with many of my posts and points.
The third one. OMGUS is scum indicative.

As such, it should be clear Nancy has nothing against me, is doing it just because I voted her, which is not town sided, nor does it aid town, it is scum sided.

[JamesTheNames]

Meta is very good.

I don't mind this opinion, I know I'm an outlier, but why should I town read somebody who refuses to do something town sided and just relies on claiming Meta to get away with things?

[Val89]

I do think we need a claim here, James. You are at E-1. It looks like a damn serious wagon to me, and Nancy isn't the only one driving it.

I don't feel good about the fact most of reason you are up for the chop seems based on a single post by your predecessor, and what may well be chalked up to communication issues anyway, but that doesn't negate the fact you are up for the lim here, and I don't exactly have a townread on you myself right now. My vote isn't the only possible source for the hammer either.

[JamesTheNames]

I do think we need a claim here, James. You are at E-1. It looks like a damn serious wagon to me, and Nancy isn't the only one driving it.

I don't feel good about the fact most of reason you are up for the chop seems based on a single post by your predecessor, and what may well be chalked up to communication issues anyway, but that doesn't negate the fact you are up for the lim here, and I don't exactly have a townread on you myself right now. My vote isn't the only possible source for the hammer either.

The only scum case people have on me is one unclear post by my predecesor, which isn't even scum indicative it just isn't helpful, and mainly the fact there is 1 unfinished sentence. There exists an actual scum case on Nancy. I'm certain there's at least 1 scum on my wagon. T3's vote is just a prod vote as far as I can tell, so it's only E-2. I'm not worried about someone quickhammering me, I know nobody would have an explanation for it and would be policy hammered D2.

@Chuck obviously I can't tell you what Blurryx my predecesor was intending with his 1 actual post, if you ignore Blurryx's comment, can I get your opinion on my slot? It's a pain in the rear to be scum read / scum leant because of a predecesor and to not be able to do anything.

I implore both Psyche and Roden to answer this pretending the @was their name, then to ask themselves if they actually have a case against me that isn't from Blurryx being weird or unhelpful.

[Val89]

Third and final time, James. We need a claim.

Intent to hammer

[T3]

My vote is serious. Usualy when someone is being super scummy and they're usually towny, gas them on to the guillotine.

[JamesTheNames]

Third and final time, James. We need a claim.

Intent to hammer

Really don't want to do this.
I'm the Doctor.