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[ssbm_Kyouko]

Pagetop!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Am I just totally brainfarting? I thought there were some interactions with nom someone cited to me as being reasons for town!rathe.

I think andre pointed them out, idr, maybe I pointed them out. I remember reading him in iso with the flipped scum and ruling him out of poe

[Dragon of the West]

Wall of text:

Spoiler:

The way DotW is looking to shade Anya is so bizarre I would absolutely blow it up.

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

In case people ever need to come back to this to solve the game, I can only confirm DGB and myself as town. Titus is just a read right now

I interpreted this an inno result @andre

Well if you spotted this the Scum probably did too since it’s quite blatant.

I don’t think that comes from Scum, for what it’s worth.

I'm frustrated that my scumreads are just going "no actually we are all town." Nero could be dead for the WIFOM or because he was also pushing the exact three players. If Dragon has an inno on you though so be it I guess, I just hope he got a "town" pm and not a "doesn't have a gun."

Okay I’m beginning to think that DW is Scum here. I thought there was something odd about an exchange they had with DGB, but if DGB is the Town, then DW might just be Scum.

Okay I need to re-read the game assuming DoTW and DGB are Town, see what’s there. I don’t have the energy right now but it’s something I need to do. T3 as a vote seems fine for now though.

Actually Anya wouldn’t have revealed the information as the Informed themselves - they’re most likely just a Goon if they’re Scum. But if the theory is correct, they might have been fishing for it.

where is this informed theory coming from?

Anya’s first post is them claiming to be a Mason all by themselves. Now, indulge me for a second. They could be a Traitor Neighbor that’s Informed about a Masonry, and is openly hinting at it in their first post, letting the Scum Team know to go look for them. Unfortunately I really do think DGB/DotW made themselves way obvious. But that’s a theory yeah?

STD is a bad vote. Sure nobody needs to listen to me but I really doubt it’ll flip Scum. Titus or DotW or T3 seem like vastly superior choices to me. But again, I need to finish reading. Unfortunately I have work to do.

Also I would like for anyone here to explain why then I TR both petapan and Nero Cain, even though the Scum were clearly looking to shield nom3 at one point D1 by piling on petapan (go back and look at how, after the attention really shifts against nom3, and some voters some of which have to be Town continue expressing skepticism of petapan, that the Scum decisively drive back there around 636). But where was I? Not on either wagon. And nobody seems to be flagging that post from Titus. Or 593 from T3, where they see a wagon developing on Scum (nom3), who is the most important Scum PR most likely, and goes for a vote on petapan that contradicts an earlier take from them after the Team was clearly trying to focus elsewhere. Which is horrifying. Or how about the reads from DotW on 639?

The only reason I think DGB is Town is because of how much osuka disparaged their thinking at different times. But honestly, most of the early takes are bad. And DW? I read the first 500 posts slowly and carefully, and found a lot to be concerned about. Which is why I need to read in detail what happened with Anya, because when you read posts like 422, which I have in my notes as a terrible defense of nom3, and the exchange that follows with Nero Cain, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Rathe is never Scum. I don’t know why they’re in anyone’s POE. The scrutiny from the Scum and votes, some of the exchanges… it’s just never the case. VFP please go back and read D1 and tell me why the Scum ever pile so many votes there as an alternative to their players then. Stuff like 503 for example.

Anyway, like I said, this game is long and I need some time. But I really do think the Scum are squarely among {Titus, Titus, DotW}. I have Chaos which I need to just look at carefully I haven’t had the time, and DGB. DW is an outside candidate for Scum. Everyone else is, I’m almost sure, Town. I would be amazed if STD or Anya flipped Scum, but maybe not totally shocked, but Rathe is just… never Scum.

Now, the ONE caveat I’ll give on Rathe (now that we know that it’s also Italiano), is that I know that as Scum, they can and do sometimes provides reads that are all correct. They literally had a solve in a prior game that just finished where they put only Town as solid Town, and left the rest of their Team as Null or Scum. It was incredibly risky, but that helped make me seriously think they were just Town. The accuracy here also seems uncanny, so that’s the only thing. But I just think some of the exchanges definitely lower the odds of this.

among {Titus, Titus, DotW}.

{Titus, T3, DotW}*.

I’ve tried reading carefully over multiple days, and through Day 1 and through some of Day 2, I have this:

Town
{Dunnstral [Vanilla Town], Nero Cain [Vanilla Town], petapan/cyrus [Vengeful Combined Vigilante Babysitter]}
Strong Lean Town
{ssbm_Kyouko, VFP}
Lean Town
{Dwlee99, T3, Derek12/ChaosOmega [Vanilla Town Claim], Rathe [ItalianoVD]}
Slight Lean Town
{Save The Dragons, Anya}
Neutral / Could Swing Either Direction
{ }
Slight Lean Scum
{Titus [Babysitter Enabler Claim], DGB, Dragon of the West}
Lean Scum
{ }
Scum
{osuka [Mafia Goon], nomnomnom / Vaxkiller [Mafia Informed Compulsive Jailkeeper]}

Yeah they’ve claimed that. I have also seen Scum claim Friendly Neighbor with a check on another Scum. They’re way too horribly wrong for them to be Town to me.

But frankly if they’re Masons then who is Scum?

And does 1869 strike you as the post that a Mason makes? I’m not buying that crap at all. But whatever I need to finish reading I guess. Back in like 2 more interminable hours.

Also 1369 alone should be reason enough to vote Titus. And I know DotW is defending most of their early positions as just being wrong but 1379 is equally horrifying.

Re-reading, it looks like his most recent scumread of me really shifted D3. I guess that could've been because my early reads on nom/vax slot were bad but listing me in 3058 came out of nowhere because he didn't mention me between 2059 (where he said DGB and I were too obvious about our roles) and then.

In 3062 he says the remaining scum must reside in "{Titus, T3, DotW}"....how could I be in the remaining scum without DGB being with me? and then in 3223, he only lists 3 people null or below: Titus, DGB, and me.

I don't trust his progression and how 3058 came out of nowhere rubbed me the wrong way. It felt like he was following a train of thought from somewhere else

[DrippingGoofball]

DotW

Should we go into details about our roles? I think at this point it might help with the game solution.

[Dwlee99]

Feel like that question would have been better suited for your mason PT

[DrippingGoofball]

That would be true if we did have a PT.

[DrippingGoofball]

Riddle me this.

[Dwlee99]

O

[Dragon of the West]

DotW

Should we go into details about our roles? I think at this point it might help with the game solution.

Oh thank God I was starting to think the same thing but didn't want to out it if you didn't want to. Especially with Gamma's claim I thought it'd be helpful

[Dragon of the West]

I was potentially going to out it tomorrow if Gamma wasn't NK'd and Anya came back as having no PT

[DrippingGoofball]

So.

We are Informed Townies - mutually informed townies. Essentially, masons, but without a PT.

So early in the game we have Anya coming right in claiming to have a PT, and Kyouko playing along, or actually having a PT, who knows.

I hope it's clearer now why both DotW and I have been so suspicious of Anya and Kyouko.

But now with this PT cop business, we may have a bit more clarity about the setup, so it's time for us to come out with it. We technically could have outed this earlier but since we don't have a PT, but in practice we had to wait until we had a magical moment where we could guess what we both may be thinking.

[DrippingGoofball]

I was potentially going to out it tomorrow if Gamma wasn't NK'd and Anya came back as having no PT

I would be shocked if she came back with having no PT. Kyouko is a different story. But Anya? She has to have a PT.

[DrippingGoofball]

The theory that there may be a player who is informed of the existence of a PT cop is intriguing.

[Dwlee99]

To clarify: were y'all informed that the other was informed of yourself?

[DrippingGoofball]

To clarify: were y'all informed that the other was informed of yourself?

Yes.

[Dragon of the West]

The theory that there may be a player who is informed of the existence of a PT cop is intriguing.

That's why I was letting it play out a bit. If Gamma came back with Anya having no PT, I was going to claim and push Gamma tomorrow because that would mean there was no PT at all or Gamma was lying about their role. VFP's argument that it was an "easy" fake claim kinda carries weight there if there actually isn't a PT. and if Anya is in a PT, I'm limming that slot to hell

[Dragon of the West]

IF Gamma's claim is real, I think there's no town PT and Gamma essentially is a straight up cop. If it's not a real claim, they're scum

[Dwlee99]

I think a PT cop existing would confirm traitors are in the game, because unless there are unclaimed neighborhoods floating around the only PT is the scum chat.

[Dwlee99]

Honestly the informed of PT cop theory makes sense and maybe it would make sense to kill Anya and then have Gamma check someone else.

[Dragon of the West]

DGB - I agree DBG probably wouldn't put themselves out there and make that early game

pos

ti

f

they're mafia. Their follow-up posts seem to have real conviction, not like a mafia just doubling down for appearances. I don't think their early post

alone

warranted as much confidence in them as you seemed to immediately have, but I agree it's townie.

this "typo" was my pathetic attempt at crumbing that my role was Town Informed on DGB

[Dragon of the West]

maybe it would make sense to kill Anya

I could hear DGB scream from here lol

[DrippingGoofball]

I think a PT cop existing would confirm traitors are in the game

How would that work?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm not certain but I'm thinking it's likely

Perfect.
All votes on me or Gamma. A green flip on either means the other next day.

As I said, you WILL regret this.
I'm an Odd-Night PT Cop, and StD was Rathe's N1 check. The result was that he has no PT so unless StD is traitor he's confirmed town, and traitor loses if all the other scum get eliminated so he's not a priority.
Still want to 1-v-1?

What if the "informed" scum role knew that their was a PT cop. that would give scum motive to claim neighbor right out of the gate so they had an excuse if the PT cop saw they were in a PT.

VOTE: Anya

I thought this too when I saw gamma claim

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think Andres is the best lim here but people jumped off that wagon. STD is just PoE

I think this post is towny btw
StD is either town or traitor so either way scum probably would treat them the same way, so the fact DotW is trying to actively push his scumread over a PoE suspect is towny

What's up with the fixation on traitor?

[Dwlee99]

I think a PT cop existing would confirm traitors are in the game

How would that work?

Might as well be a cop with no non-traitor scum if there are no PT. It could also be mod WIFOM or if scum are informed of it they could know to claim?