Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[NorwegianboyEE]

This is game where as mafia it's literally in your win condition to deceive people. Acting like someone wouldn't do what it takes to pocket you is ridiculous.

[Amy Dunne]

or are you saying scum Pooky would just not ask you to read him earlygame like he did?

If he tried that as scum, it would also be stupid because it would clearly come back to bite him if he ever tried it again.

No, because I think he respects our friendship too much to emotionally manipulate me that way. And I know he does think this despite my only correctly reading him as town. I will never feel I can read him correctly until I correctly sr him which obviously hasn’t happened yet.

[Amy Dunne]

I’m right about this, aren’t I Pooky?

I would definitely not put myself through that just to win a mafia game

Pooky is good here. <3

[NorwegianboyEE]

If Satoru Nakata is town then i think they'd be an pretty easy miselim due to their weird mannerism and low charisma. Hence my paranoia with Infinity here and how quickly the Nakata wagon rose up.

[Chara]

what do you think Pooky would do if he did roll scum with town you? wouldn't you then catch him immediately because he failed to buddy you or get you to townread him?

[Amy Dunne]

Yeah but if he’s scum, it’s still a brazen attempt to manipulate me specifically and I’d like to believe that Pooky wouldn’t take advantage of me this way, because he knows if he ever did anything like that, he would be hearing about for weeks on end. Because I would be super pissed at him, if he ever singled me out like that as scum.

This isn't a good metric to use in solving slots.
Especially considering i think you said the exact same about Flavour in the anime theme and then he proved you wrong.

Pooky isn’t Flavor and Flavor would absolutely do that to me. I argued with him in our mason PT about Pooky and well, I was stupid to trust him but in Pooky’s case, I actually have proof, because he genuinely did try to protect me in Trust Fall while stil managing to play to his wincon. Flavor would never have done that.

[Chara]

i'm of the opinion that if two friends can't play mafia together for fear of jeopardizing their friendship if one of them does any scum manipulation, it might not be a good idea to have them join games together.

that thought is less related to this game than my previous post, but i am saying it because i'm in that situation myself. just saying that for clarity of intent.

[Amy Dunne]

what do you think Pooky would do if he did roll scum with town you? wouldn't you then catch him immediately because he failed to buddy you or get you to townread him?

He would obviously still play to his wincon but saying something, like I quoted would be extremely underhanded and I think he would try other ways to achieve his wincon. Obviously, he would have to deceive me but not ever like that.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah but if he’s scum, it’s still a brazen attempt to manipulate me specifically and I’d like to believe that Pooky wouldn’t take advantage of me this way, because he knows if he ever did anything like that, he would be hearing about for weeks on end. Because I would be super pissed at him, if he ever singled me out like that as scum.

I hate that this is a thing we're using to solve. Mafia is a game that involves manipulating, scum shouldn't feel guilty about manipulating people to play to their wincon.

[Chara]

If Satoru Nakata is town then i think they'd be an pretty easy miselim due to their weird mannerism and low charisma. Hence my paranoia with Infinity here and how quickly the Nakata wagon rose up.

i also didn't like Infinity's Nakata vote, but her follow-up on it wasn't too bad.
how is that different from Infinity herself, though? her wagon also seemed to spring up pretty fast, and i have heard from players in this game i can't remember that her day 1 isn't the best.

[Chara]

what do you think Pooky would do if he did roll scum with town you? wouldn't you then catch him immediately because he failed to buddy you or get you to townread him?

He would obviously still play to his wincon but saying something, like I quoted would be extremely underhanded and I think he would try other ways to achieve his wincon. Obviously, he would have to deceive me but not ever like that.

i completely disagree that the post you quoted is in any way underhanded, it is about as chill of a "hey you should townread me" as you can get, even with the context you provided, but i also don't think i will convince you on this. my previous post still stands as my ultimate take, but in the end it doesn't actually affect me too much. thanks for answering me, though.

this does make me somewhat more confident in Amy town, incidentally.

[Amy Dunne]

i'm of the opinion that if two friends can't play mafia together for fear of jeopardizing their friendship if one of them does any scum manipulation, it might not be a good idea to have them join games together.

that thought is less related to this game than my previous post, but i am saying it because i'm in that situation myself. just saying that for clarity of intent.

But why would scum!Pooky even need to do that when he could easily find less problematic ways to achieve his wincon? This statement is literally assuming, he would ever actually be forced to make that kind of choice and that isn’t what I’m saying at all. Like there are certain things I would also not do to a friend to win a scum game. I think it’s possible to win honourably.

[Chara]

anything i'd do to a stranger in a mafia game i'd do to a friend. the idea is to be respectful to everyone. i wouldn't purposely avoid doing something because a player is a friend. and i don't find manipulating anyone as scum to be dishonourable. there's a line, but i don't think this game is a useful place to discuss it.

[Amy Dunne]

Yeah but if he’s scum, it’s still a brazen attempt to manipulate me specifically and I’d like to believe that Pooky wouldn’t take advantage of me this way, because he knows if he ever did anything like that, he would be hearing about for weeks on end. Because I would be super pissed at him, if he ever singled me out like that as scum.

I hate that this is a thing we're using to solve. Mafia is a game that involves manipulating, scum shouldn't feel guilty about manipulating people to play to their wincon.

That isn’t even remotely what I’m saying. :/. Of course scum!Pooky would manipulate me - he’d obviously have to but there are ways he could do that which would be clearly less problematic. He’s a very good scum player as you all know, so he wouldn’t have to resort to something like that is my point.

[Amy Dunne]

anything i'd do to a stranger in a mafia game i'd do to a friend. the idea is to be respectful to everyone. i wouldn't purposely avoid doing something because a player is a friend. and i don't find manipulating anyone as scum to be dishonourable. there's a line, but i don't think this game is a useful place to discuss it.

And yet he protected me and still managed to win Trust Fall. I don’t believe scum!Pooky would say that to me if he was scum here, is the bottom line.

[Ydrasse]

amy, genuine question: how is it problematic to do what he did, and why would pooky not do something that was easy if it's like... like what's the issue?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cuz theres no need for me to manipulate her when nobody really suspects me to begin with since im so townie even Datisi thinks I'm good this game ^_^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

except Chara who's really committed to omgusing me for some reason O.o

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yeah but if he’s scum, it’s still a brazen attempt to manipulate me specifically and I’d like to believe that Pooky wouldn’t take advantage of me this way, because he knows if he ever did anything like that, he would be hearing about for weeks on end. Because I would be super pissed at him, if he ever singled me out like that as scum.

I hate that this is a thing we're using to solve. Mafia is a game that involves manipulating, scum shouldn't feel guilty about manipulating people to play to their wincon.

That isn’t even remotely what I’m saying. :/. Of course scum!Pooky would manipulate me - he’d obviously have to but there are ways he could do that which would be clearly less problematic. He’s a very good scum player as you all know, so he wouldn’t have to resort to something like that is my point.

There's something deeply problematic about that sort of thinking in a game of mafia. I hate to go too much off topic but as long as the mafia is not being toxic or emotionally abusive i really don't see any problem with doing whatever it takes to fool other people into thinking they are not mafia. And if they already know that Amy thinks: "X would never do that as scum" that is just all the more reason to do exactly that. Having a flexible scum meta is key to actually being good as that alignment.
Anyway i do not think Pooky has done anything he would consider "too much" to do to you if he was scum here. And if you think he has, clearly we disagree.

[Amy Dunne]

If Satoru Nakata is town then i think they'd be an pretty easy miselim due to their weird mannerism and low charisma. Hence my paranoia with Infinity here and how quickly the Nakata wagon rose up.

Well, the appeasement part isn’t scum indicative as I showed with Skitter but I do agree that his reasons for sr me weren’t good.

[Amy Dunne]

Yeah but if he’s scum, it’s still a brazen attempt to manipulate me specifically and I’d like to believe that Pooky wouldn’t take advantage of me this way, because he knows if he ever did anything like that, he would be hearing about for weeks on end. Because I would be super pissed at him, if he ever singled me out like that as scum.

I hate that this is a thing we're using to solve. Mafia is a game that involves manipulating, scum shouldn't feel guilty about manipulating people to play to their wincon.

That isn’t even remotely what I’m saying. :/. Of course scum!Pooky would manipulate me - he’d obviously have to but there are ways he could do that which would be clearly less problematic. He’s a very good scum player as you all know, so he wouldn’t have to resort to something like that is my point.

There's something deeply problematic about that sort of thinking in a game of mafia. I hate to go too much off topic but as long as the mafia is not being toxic or emotionally abusive i really don't see any problem with doing whatever it takes to fool other people into thinking they are not mafia. And if they already know that Amy thinks: "X would never do that as scum" that is just all the more reason to do exactly that. Having a flexible scum meta is key to actually being good as that alignment.
Anyway i do not think Pooky has done anything he would consider "too much" to do to you if he was scum here. And if you think he has, clearly we disagree.

Pooky is a competent enough scumplayer that he can win without doing something like that.

[Amy Dunne]

amy, genuine question: how is it problematic to do what he did, and why would pooky not do something that was easy if it's like... like what's the issue?

Because I don’t believe he’d do that to me as scum. He could find much superior ways to win and you all know, he’s good enough to do that.

[Amy Dunne]

If Satoru Nakata is town then i think they'd be an pretty easy miselim due to their weird mannerism and low charisma. Hence my paranoia with Infinity here and how quickly the Nakata wagon rose up.

i also didn't like Infinity's Nakata vote, but her follow-up on it wasn't too bad.
how is that different from Infinity herself, though? her wagon also seemed to spring up pretty fast, and i have heard from players in this game i can't remember that her day 1 isn't the best.

Yeah that’s true.

[Ydrasse]

okay, well

i'm not trying to be rude by saying this but i don't think that reason is going to hold weight with anyone else here so like, if you actually have other reasons for pooky to be town it'd be nice to hear them so you can convince /us/

[Amy Dunne]

cuz theres no need for me to manipulate her when nobody really suspects me to begin with since im so townie even Datisi thinks I'm good this game ^_^

I really don’t see why anyone thinks it’s problematic that you’re competent enough as scum that you can win without such tactics.