Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Morning Tweet]

Yin

, how many criminals are there within Amy, Robert, and Tanner?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Yang, what animals are there besides llamas and goats in this game?

Bats, Bears. Maybe even fleas.

[Flea The Magician]

Yang, what animals are there besides llamas and goats in this game?

Bats, Bears. Maybe even fleas.

Hey! I resemble this comment!

[Flea The Magician]

@Yin

What is the maximum number of votes a member of the scumteam has received so far?

@Yang

Hi. <3

Spoiler: Against the waves with our swords in our hands

@Flea

I initially agreed with a wagon on it, but Chara became slightly more towny over time.

Not to the point of townlean, of course, but to the point of getting out of any scumlean and, at the very least, going into null-town or some variation of that kind.

But there wasn't exactly a reassessment by the players who are in the wagon, probably due to lack of time, disinterest or a different conclusion about Chara's posting (which probably involves past experience/expectation/knowledge of it's scumgame and etc.)

I don't think Chara is being pushed in bad faith. Seems like an ''ok''/not suggestive wagon.

I hate when people start mentioning bad faith. You know that Clidd.
Chara to me seems to be a wagon for the sake of it. Don't get me wrong, it's scumgame is definitely something to be feared. But that should not be the basis for this wagon which seems to be what I'm seeing. You say a few things about Robert but seem keen to associate.

Red Robert means Green Tanner, but everyone lowers.

I don't think this, from you this feels lazy.

Spoiler: Against the sea with our backs to the walls

Ircher, do you have any takes on the players so far?

I don't remember you expressing your impressions yet.

Not really. I'm trying something a bit different this game; a bit more of an advisory role so to speak.

The thing is Ircher, you seem to have more of an agenda here than you have previously. It worries me.

I mean don't you townread me independently of what the NPA says?

I am very townie

Annoyingly you're just as scary.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

Why would that mean your read is correct?

The scum want to kill me.

Robert, you clearly knew who Datisi was, or thought they were a person in the game.
So why are you now changing your story by acting like you don't even know who they are?

Someone named Datisi in a post and I thought that was a player in the game, I don't know how you compute that I "knew who Datisi was" as in it's an alt of another player in the game.

Also you're scum.

Why? To both of these.

Unless Robert comes back and blows my socks off with an epic comeback i’m just going to assume he’s frozen scum as Tanner suggests.

I have never blown anyone's socks off so brace yourself for disappointment.

I see the scum are circling the easy player to eliminate.

Thing is, I don't buy you playing possom. I know your game, I know you can be a strong player.

Spoiler: Against distress in the presence of our enemies

i know i've been phoning it in a little, but i really don't like that i'm a wagon here. Pooky's vote is the one that stands out the most as actually bad.

Imagine how I feel.

AtE Pity Party noted.

On the other hand, in a townflip, my paranoia would rise significantly. I would have to re-evaluate all my reads according to the specs of the interactions that occurred around the wagon prior to the elim.

Once again my only utility in a game is going to be day 1 elimination fodder. I guess that's going to be my niche?

AtE Misdirection noted.

@Robert: You spent a lot of posts catching up to say very little of substance. Who of the people pushing you do you think is scum?

The constant refrains about my imminent replacement and how I'm scum for not knowing all your little pet names and alt accounts is very irritating after a long day at work.

Why should I invest time making cases that will convince no one because you all want to kill me right now?

AtE Defeatism. noted.
See I can relate to this mood though. Being targetting makes you wonder well what the hell, no point.
Difference is when i've done it, I haven't bothered catching up. Ircher's got a point. You've read enough to drop names at minimum

I'm actually more suspicious of the players defending me, because it's blatantly obvious that I won't survive into the night to use my power, and it's very safe for them to say I'm town when they know I'm town.

I feel shitting scum reading the only players that read me correctly, so I'm very conflicted.

Anyway, if I could be a ghost after I get eliminated, that's where I'd look. The players that defended me.

AtE "I got da powah!" moment, noted.

Robert is pretty obvtown

Don't fall for it inf, you see through it with me, you should be able to see through this.

Spoiler: Against the storms roaring at our faces

@Yin

Are Chara or Norwee aligned against the town?

The Holy Lance is the name of the artefact that pierced the side of Jesus Christ.

I covered this, My interpretation of this is Chara.

Spoiler: The cry rang out throughout the skies

VOTE: Nakata

Whats up tweety?

What if we have a

DEEPWOLF

(Stares intently at some particular users)

Who. Statements like these are good because they look like they want to to incite conversation, and make the person look good, the reality is, just that. It's a no effort post.

What if we have a

DEEPWOLF

(Stares intently at some particular users)

bahhh How deep can a wolf possibly get during the first half of d1

i hav high hopes for this game

Robert tanner clidd townbloc go

im entertaining adding infini andor amy

edajjmndj gka

You'd be surprised.

Spoiler: That beckoned the flight of the cranes

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

This a damned good post. Tanner goes up in my estimations.

But the AtE, followed by the erratic order of interactions, the stubbornness in reaffirming the victim's position at all times and also the lack of satisfactory answers to the questions raised suggest an unplanned course of action, that is, with a lack of scum motivation.

Clidds town.

Spoiler: The call of the mountains

Nakata doesn’t think that Robert is town for turning up and posting. Nakata thinks that he may be scum who’s buddies told him he needed to do more. Nakata dislikes the votes on him and thinks there’s scum in them.

Hey look its Nakata.

VOTE: Nakata

Here's a read, clidd is scum who refuses to give up on an easy elimination that looks like it could come to fruition soon.

clidd was like your most vocal defender though?

Objectively there are no reasons to town read me that hold water.

But then, the reasons to scum read me seem very opportunistic. Why are players hung up scum-reading me into page 25 or so, because they pretend to be baffled that I didn't know that Datisi = Tanner? They are hanging on to this notion because they know I'm the easy player to eliminate because I work all day long and don't have the leisure to play all day and defend myself immediately, so that false accusations simmer.

so if the reasons to townread u are bad, and the reasons to scumread you are also bad

why are you suspecting either read over the other exactly?

Nakata thinks these posts are incongruent with Morning Tweet’s vote on him.

What if we have a

DEEPWOLF

(Stares intently at some particular users)

bahhh How deep can a wolf possibly get during the first half of d1

i hav high hopes for this game

Robert tanner clidd townbloc go

im entertaining adding infini andor amy

edajjmndj gka

Nakata doesn’t like that Morning Tweet is trying to force a townbloc so early into the game. Nakata thinks trying to create townblocs is scummy.

VOTE: Morning Tweet

Promising start...

*snerk*

@Nakata

Could you expand about your fos on Morning?

Clidd is in doubt about Nakata as he doesn't know if Nakata is a real friend, so he would like to understand what he's thinking. If Nakata could help Clidd, Clidd would be very grateful.

Nakata appreciates that Clidd is emulating his manner of speaking, but Nakata would like to inform friend Clidd that this is not necessary for communication -- Nakata is very able to get by with others speaking in their normal style, although if friend Clidd would wish to continue to speak in the third person when communicating with Nakata, Nakata has no problem with this either.

Nakata thinks that Morning Tweet continuing to interrogate Robert in the manner of 776 and 778 means that Morning Tweet is presenting as being unsure of his alignment, yet Morning Tweet is also voting Nakata for thinking that Robert is scummy/applying pressure there. Nakata thinks Morning Tweet's vote doesn't seem to follow what she's thinking, and that her vote is opportunistic.

This intrigues me. I've mirrored Nakata in every interaction but this is the first time it's commented on by you.
You stance around the weight of a vote worries me too.

I can't read crazy people

Bullshit. You read me pretty well

Spoiler: The call of the alps

My room is so hot. I’m dying.
Norwegians weren’t meant to endure heat waves.
Urghhhhhh

Brits aren't either -.-; help us someone please >.<

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=35622


This is scum!Robert being run up. His reaction is completely different wouldn’t you say?

That was a fun game.

Spoiler: The call home

Nakata doesn’t understand why his wagon exists, Nakata doesn’t think he’s done anything scummy or noteworthy of being top wagon and thinks that this means that his wagon is likely being propped up by opportunistic scum.

That is a corker of a wagon.

Nakata is very doubtful that 5 town players would all think he is the scummiest slot in the game here.

Anything I can respond to with "Why?" is not going to go in your favour.

No. A wagon is not an indicator of alignment, and we still have >4 days left.

100% this. at the time anyway, Wagons mean nothing until flips. Strangely, I think this is a solid wagon. Norwee and tanner gain a suspicious eyebrow.

Better to end the day comfortably with some time left than to rush an shitty elimination because deadline is creeping up and making everyone stressed.

Not saying to end it now. But holding back progress because there’s still X days left is an lame excuse.

2 minutes between, indicates a thought process.

townbloccing is different to trying to force a townbloc

How can you reliably tell those apart?

Nakata thinks the way that Morning Tweet was talking “let’s form a townbloc/X can be in the townbloc/maybe Y can be in the townbloc” is forcing it to form and that they’re much better when left unspoken to form naturally from aligned reads. This is a big part of why Nakata thinks Morning Tweet is scummy.

This is actually a fucking good take.

Nakata thinks that Amy Dunne or Morning Tweet would be better options for today, although he supposed he would vote Infinity 324 if needed.

If one of those mentioned already has votes wouldn't it by all definitions be an better vote?

Nakata thinks Infinity 324 will be easier to sort later and that for now Amy Dunne and Morning Tweet are scummier than her because they’re playing with more agenda, and not just opportunism.

If I wasn't already aware of a gimmick alt, this would seal it.

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

See another instance of Tanner being remarkably freaking null. This has town points, and then i go and get the freaking heebies about it..

Amy Dune 869 onwards.

ARRRRGH. Why do people like giving me conflicting feeligns in this game? This is a scum sammich right here.
scum, town, scum. bah.

And I'm back to where I came in last night, 12 pages away lol

[Flea The Magician]

Nakata beseeches friend Flea to look more closely at what Nakata is saying if Flea has concerns about Nakata that extend beyond his manner of speaking. Nakata thinks that if friend Flea does this fae will see that Nakata is approaching everything from a towny mindset! What does Flea think is tanking Nakata's credibility?

Oh I found the post I was responding to with my little leage net post

[Flea The Magician]

Nakata, give me a clue, how much experience do you have with me?

[Flea The Magician]

you're off your game infy

are you a baddie or something

No :/

are you sure you didn't mis-read your role pm? :3

I think Pooky is town here and Infinity seems to be really struggling with the game. What do you think Pooky?

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

This is a recent Infinity scumgame.

You are like the goddamned meta queen aincha.

I wanna know what your thoughts on me are based on meta. Especially as I've been in 2 of the games you've posted so far.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i've not exactly ruled out "lazy scum!pooky whose partners aren't in danger so he's fine chilling and doing nothing" yet. i'll admit there's nothing exactly pointing there yet, but... i'm keeping it in mind.

I disagree about it being a trust tell as its a belief she has of my play.

also if you think its lazy pooky scum with safe partners, who are my partners?

[Flea The Magician]

¶

Votecount 1.12

[5] Satoru Nakata:

Ydrasse, Amy Dunne, clidd, Infinity 324, Morning Tweet

[2] Infinity 324:

NorwegianboyEE, Tanner

[1] Chara:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1] Ircher:

Flea The Magician

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

Chara

[1] clidd:

Robert M Hunter

[1] Morning Tweet:

Satoru Nakata

[1] Not Voting:

Ircher

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to sentence. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-07-07 18:10:20).

Joint moderator ISO.

¶

Votecount 1.13

[5] Infinity 324:

NorwegianboyEE, Tanner, Chara, clidd, Ydrasse

[2] Satoru Nakata:

Infinity 324, Morning Tweet

[1] Chara:

PookyTheMagicalBear

[1] Ircher:

Flea The Magician

[1] clidd:

Robert M Hunter

[1] Morning Tweet:

Satoru Nakata

[2] Not Voting:

Ircher, Amy Dunne

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to sentence. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-07-07 18:10:20).

Joint moderator ISO.

Just making a note here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

carry tweet is here so i can sheep yusssss

VOTE: ircher

E-2?

[Flea The Magician]

i get annoyed when people are insisting that they're obvtown when they're objectively not, and then they act insulted that i'm not seeing it.

this. this is an absolute - fucking - mood.

[Flea The Magician]

ok I'm on 44 and I'm happy voting robert, honestly. The disappointment is real.

[Flea The Magician]

he hasn't towntold is the short of it. and scum Pooky doesn't always get into gear right away, either. i'm used to town Pooky caring more than he has so far

Pooky is on my watchlist at the moment for similar reasoning.

Town pooky cares more than scum pooky.

[Robert M Hunter]

I have to agree with the Ircher wagon. I wouldn't call it trolling like some others did, but he seems to flutter above the game in trying to avoid sinking into it.

VOTE: Ircher

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Robert

Money goes where my mouth is.

[Robert M Hunter]

Am I voting your wolfmate?

[Tanner]

i've not exactly ruled out "lazy scum!pooky whose partners aren't in danger so he's fine chilling and doing nothing" yet. i'll admit there's nothing exactly pointing there yet, but... i'm keeping it in mind.

I disagree about it being a trust tell as its a belief she has of my play.

also if you think its lazy pooky scum with safe partners, who are my partners?

i don't "think" that, i just acknowledge it's a (at the moment unlikely) possibility. and no fucking clue. that would mean this town is full of deepwolves, so it's not something i want to think about on day one.

will respond to other things in a second, but before i do so i wanna point out - robert's ircher vote is disgusting. to the point where i wonder if robert is a jester.

[Tanner]

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

See another instance of Tanner being remarkably freaking null. This has town points, and then i go and get the freaking heebies about it..

what's giving you the heebies here? like, this feels like a normal / nai post to me, i'm starting to think if we're genuinely just butting heads because of playstyle differences.

That post was using current context for me to justify m read on Nakata at the time, not the games context for nakata at the time.

The scope of that conversation was me and Nakata, in that exchange. You appear to be shifting the scope to me talking from a game wide perspective, players and duration.

That's moving from a little league soccer net to a standard competition size soccer net.

uh. i understood that 923 was you talking about your own read on nakata. and that's what i was talking about in my 1160 - it feels asinine to me that someone would consider something like "they implied i would quickhammer them" as a perfect example of why they're scumreading someone. so it also made me think you're making up your nakata scumread as you go.

however, i was

not

trying to imply that you're saying that that's the game's reasoning for scumreading him. i used the "why nakata is being scumread" passive tense in 1160 simply because you used the same "why nakata is considered to be a rival" passive tense in 923.

like, if that came off as me saying that you're saying that's the game's reasoning, then my bad. but that was very much not my intention.

[Ydrasse]

I have to agree with the Ircher wagon. I wouldn't call it trolling like some others did, but he seems to flutter above the game in trying to avoid sinking into it.

VOTE: Ircher

what the fuck lmao

[clidd]

I wonder if I did any mistakes in my evaluation of Robert, but I re-evaluated my theory internally about three times (with updated information) and got the same conclusion (town!Robert). So.. No idea what is going on with him.

[clidd]

Assuming the only options are town or scum. Anything outside of that is beyond my capacity to speculate.

[clidd]

Regarding votes/maybe elim, I'm leaning between Infinity and Nakata.

Ircher is not an option for me (although I understand why he is being pushed).

[Tanner]

okay, response to ydra wall.

it's intentional for many reasons but the main for you is because i started off this game really annoyed at you and i thought it better to Not engage like that for everyone's benefit. that and the statement i made earlier about you not reading me correctly was based in the memory of that normal game where you were scum and townread me which like, to me was "why can't he see what he's seeing here"

first, why did you get annoyed at me? and i don't understand what the second part means. when i was scum, i wasn't townreading you. i *said* in the thread of that game that i was townreading you, because i thought that was the best path to take with you, but, uh, that was me bullshitting. i didn't have a read on you, i knew you were town. if i know someone's alignment (e.g. because they're not in the scum pt with me), my brain doesn't even parse through their posts for ai info. like, i'll

read

them, but i won't be getting anything from them. and sorry, that last quoted sentence completely lost me.

but i disagree that "everyone sounds town" is a scummy mindset bc i just played a game where... like everyone basically sounded town to me and i was floundering lol.

i think there's a difference between "everyone sounds town, what do i do" and "everyone sounds town, except conveniently these top wagons, i will not put any thought into this at all". like, it feels like the second part.

alright. i think your take on me here is like, much more nuanced than when you were scum vs me, which is also where my scumread stemmed from your read on me sounding like extremely forced paranoia. so by that, i'd say i'm leaning town. however, you also *know* that's what i hated, so if you did roll scum against me again, i imagine you'd be much more careful about your read on me.

also, what's really REALLY worrying me is that you seem to be trying to find every excuse under the sun to not vote robert. like, something just rings extremely

wrong

about you not even considering the possibility that this is scum!robert bullshitting a read on a town player that almost everyone scumreads, and instead going straight down into the "if robert is scum, then his read on nakata is tmi, therefore we should vote nakata first anyway". because, that explanation feels... counter-intuitive? to the point where it feels like a fabricated thought process meant as an excuse to not vote robert.

typing this out reminded me how earlier in the game i said that if robert flipped scum i'd deathtunnel you, and going back to check it out again, that still holds. this doesn't feel right.

so, to answer your question: my read on you is town, if we're going by the depth of your thought processes, the nuance you're showing in your read on me, etc. but uh, the actual things you're pushing are not giving me positive feelings. so i don't know, make of that what you will.

[Tanner]

I wonder if I did any mistakes in my evaluation of Robert, but I re-evaluated my theory internally about three times (with updated information) and got the same conclusion (town!Robert). So.. No idea what is going on with him.

is this town!clidd once again getting snowed by bad scum because he cannot comprehend that scum sometimes doesn't plan everything out perfectly and makes mistakes? could be.

[clidd]

*Mini 2205 flashbacks*