FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt - 2 Game Over

[Servant Lancer]

locktowning archer

people looking bad on moon scumflip:

assassin:

wording around moon cancer vote rubs me the wrong way. he says it is "prudent" to eliminate moon cancer - this is mostly what I was referring to when I said this was awkward (I think). read around saber also felt like he was just saying words to say words.

caster:

reaction to the gladiate was nonexistent, used notscience's post as basis for vote and avoided saying literally anything else about the gladiate

beast:

hesitance to join the wagon because "scum would be bussing,"

implying that he thought or knew that moon cancer was scum but still didn't want to vote

avenger:

while the gladiate came at a time that might be considered "too brazen for a partner to do," I think that's exactly why it could have been used by scum. especially since moon cancer's abilities look pretty strong. beast/avenger unlikely to be partners.

ALSO

I'd just like to point out that moon cancer's NP granted NP charge to other players, so I think the argument that saber is town simply because he has one ability that grants NP and cabd wouldn't give that ability to scum is a very bad reason to townread saber unless you are townreading him for other reasons. (as I also said before, cabd has probably provided decent fakeclaims as well so townreading someone for telling the truth about their abilities is also not a good reason to townread someone.)

[Servant Avenger]

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

[Servant Shielder]

No.

Not for me at least.

This play proves that you don't have the greatest judgement

Okay, say I flip town, Moon flips town and foreigner flips scum.
Is my judgement still bad?

@Avenger, if you are town, I would like to just say

Well, when you're wrong you're wrong I guess.
I still don't think I'm wrong on foreigner, but I'll leave it to play out for now.

Going to need more from you than shrugging this off and moving on.
Why did you use your gladiate there?
Why did you pull it back so fast instead of arguing more for it?
What was your read on Moon Cancer at the time?

Why ignore me asking you this in 1291?

VOTE: Servant Avenger

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

I don't really agree with this take, maybe they are balanced differently. With that said, I think it likely that town has at least 1 ability that can grant *.

[Servant Lancer]

Assuming saber's ability is one-shot, granting one * is really not that strong and not that scum-sided if given to scum. I don't see why this should remove saber from someone's scumpool without other reasons to townread saber.

[Servant Avenger]

Going to need more from you than shrugging this off and moving on.
Why did you use your gladiate there?
Why did you pull it back so fast instead of arguing more for it?
What was your read on Moon Cancer at the time?

Why ignore me asking you this in 1291?

VOTE: Servant Avenger

I used it because I just think foreigner is scum. That's obvious.
You say I'm shrugging it off... I see it as I made a bad play, and I had a kicking about it from half the game all spamming at me.
I thought about it, decide it was a bad play as well and decided to leave you lot to action accordingly
My action wasn't because I think Moon is town, although I did by default, my action was purely from foreigner being scum. So I haven't really got Moon flipping scum to apologies for. I think this is the wrong focus that was pushed on rather that what I was obviously aiming for.
I'll take the back lash as needed though, I'm not going to say that it wasn't a bad play, and I'm not going to say that anyone listens to me unless I prove myself back into the game.

You can see this is a cop out attempt, but it's just my thought aspect to it.

I didn't ignore 1291 either, I didn't see it. There's a difference.

[Servant Shielder]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

[Servant Archer]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

In a role madness game, where every player has like 4 abilities?

[Servant Avenger]

Assuming saber's ability is one-shot, granting one * is really not that strong and not that scum-sided if given to scum. I don't see why this should remove saber from someone's scumpool without other reasons to townread saber.

It's a pretty weak power at 1 shot regardless?
Again, whoever has it, even more so as just 1 shot has to target the confirmed as and when needed or they will be claiming scum.

You might as well just give scum a 1 shot fruit vendor at that point.

[Servant Shielder]

Personally I feel that a traffic analyst claim should at least earn Saber a night to attempt actions

In a role madness game, where every player has like 4 abilities?

Yeah. It's an investigative ability that can be as strong as a gunsmith if the targets role is known in advance, or at least if they're claiming to not be able to communicate for purposes of traffic analyst.

[Servant Lancer]

Going to need more from you than shrugging this off and moving on.
Why did you use your gladiate there?
Why did you pull it back so fast instead of arguing more for it?
What was your read on Moon Cancer at the time?

Why ignore me asking you this in 1291?

VOTE: Servant Avenger

I used it because I just think foreigner is scum. That's obvious.
You say I'm shrugging it off... I see it as I made a bad play, and I had a kicking about it from half the game all spamming at me.
I thought about it, decide it was a bad play as well and decided to leave you lot to action accordingly
My action wasn't because I think Moon is town, although I did by default, my action was purely from foreigner being scum. So I haven't really got Moon flipping scum to apologies for. I think this is the wrong focus that was pushed on rather that what I was obviously aiming for.
I'll take the back lash as needed though, I'm not going to say that it wasn't a bad play, and I'm not going to say that anyone listens to me unless I prove myself back into the game.

You can see this is a cop out attempt, but it's just my thought aspect to it.

I didn't ignore 1291 either, I didn't see it. There's a difference.

you gladiated right when moon cancer was about to die, so I would say the focus on your read on Moon cancer versus your read on foreigner is very justified. because if you're town, you must have thought your scumread on foreigner was so much stronger than everyone else's reasons to scumread moon cancer.

[Servant Avenger]

you gladiated right when moon cancer was about to die, so I would say the focus on your read on Moon cancer versus your read on foreigner is very justified. because if you're town, you must have thought your scumread on foreigner was so much stronger than everyone else's reasons to scumread moon cancer.

Okay, well I'm saying that's not the case.
I said it before hand, before Moon was the leading wagon that I was going to use it on foreigner.
Regardless if you understood what I was talking about, that alone shows that it wasn't because of Moon getting the votes.

[Servant Archer]

Cursed Cupid Cleanser (C.C.C.) ~ **** ~ You may activate this Noble Phantasm during the day phase. When you do, you will grant * to all players you share a PT with, one per shared PT. You may additionally specify one of those players to be temporarily Macho for the night phase immediately after.

So this suggests that Saber is town even more so.
Otherwise it's strange for scum to be able to power each others NP like that.
I guess Moon's comes at a disadvantage of also buffing town players in a hood with them, but the macho part balances that out.

This is silly, because it is so incredibly easy for cabd to balance around charging mechanic.

In the last game, the scum team averaged 4* needed for their NP, simply making them average 4.5-5 immediately offsets giving them abilities that can charge one another.

Regardless, I do not want to try and solve this game based on Mech, and would much rather solve it by looking at how people have played -- such as the confirmed scum wanting Saber to be the master at the start of Day 0, and the fact that we were all so suspicious of Saber's play for the master that we almost ran him up already

I mean, ignoring all attempts to say "scum would not have XX ability" and just looking at day play, look how close we were to elim'ing Saber

Spoiler:

As long as it’s in Saber or moon I’m happy.

Saber. I think that flip will provide tons of information even if wrong. But it’s mind boggling to me to view that play from town.

Yes, Saber should claim.

[Servant Saber]

For Avenger, I would hammer it if the majority decides he's a distraction. It's ego centric but Avenger gains little from defending me. Pushing me and foreigner benefits him more.

The behavior Avenger did is disruptive and arrogant but I struggle to slight him for it as my play required its own arrogance.

I'm very disinclined to follow onto Foreigner though given the wagons pregladiate.

[Servant Assassin]

Besides Alter cementing town status even harder if possible, this from Foreigner

I know when some is scum when they give awful excuses to push me and Cancer is good example of it.

is too committed too early to be a bus. I'd ask avenger to consider it this.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to

prudently

treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

[Servant Beast]

Wait wait wait.
Did moon flip scum?

[Servant Beast]

They did flip scum! Heck yeah!

[Servant Shielder]

Why did we have Saber claim their character name? Or did they do that on their own. This was not a good idea and wasn't necessary for the claim.

[Servant Alter Ego]

If I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence: I told you so.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I'm not going to immediately jump on Avenger for the hasty gladiate, that was a dumb and incredibly frustrating move but I'm not sure if scum would willingly draw so much attention to themself like that. I have a few other people in mind I want to take a look back at.

[Servant Avenger]

is too committed too early to be a bus. I'd ask avenger to consider it this.

Noted.
I'll review again.

[Servant Saber]

Why did we have Saber claim their character name? Or did they do that on their own. This was not a good idea and wasn't necessary for the claim.

I did it on my own. I interpreted the request from Berserker as a full claim. Just seeing this tells me I forgot alignment stuff.

[Servant Archer]

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

Do you think that that would still apply to literally their first post in the thread -- before any pressure was on them? Because that is the post I reference back to.

[Servant Saber]

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I agree.

My current theory is that scum wanted to preserve all avaliable miseliminations for later.

1) I get threatened for being weird.
2) Foreigner for being new.
3) Avenger for arrogance.

They hammer Avenger for the gladiate. Then listen to his read on Foreigner. Then come after me.

It's a strong chain that might save Moon.

[Servant Lancer]

If there's some reward for doing the gladiate, it makes sense to target MC.

If there's a loyal/disloyal aspect, it also makes sense to target MC.

Can you clarify what you mean by this?

[Servant Beast]

If I may be permitted a brief moment of self-indulgence: I told you so.

I'll take a look at the relationship between Moon Caster and Saber, but I'm going to prudently treat Moon's reads as being WIFOM.

This is probably wise, NK15 hardly even bothered to explain himself after his first few posts, I feel like he went into shutdown mode the moment he got even the slightest bit of heat. Posts in the Townstumps Scum PT indicate he doesn't really put in effort.

What's going to be more relevant is how people positioned themselves around Moon Cancer. Given the strength of his role I suspect that scumteam didn't want to lose him right away and that was why he was so difficult to flip.

I'm not going to immediately jump on Avenger for the hasty gladiate, that was a dumb and incredibly frustrating move but I'm not sure if scum would willingly draw so much attention to themself like that. I have a few other people in mind I want to take a look back at.

Acknowledged.

The associations for Mooncancer are pretty unique this game. Due to the gladiate stuff and moon cancer themselves not posting much.

[Servant Lancer]

With 14 players alive, it will take 8 votes to burn a servant.

Foreigner (4): Avenger, Beast, Ruler, Moon Cancer
Saber (4): Alter Ego, Rider, Lancer, Archer
Moon Cancer (2): Foreigner, Saber

Deadline: (expired on 2021-07-12 00:17:51)


Page Usage: 7/42

foreigner seems to be the pretty clearly designated counterwagon to moon cancer (formed before the saber wagon)
saber's wagon should be all town here. moon cancer and shielder joined later.