Newbie 2072: All Guns Blazing!! - Ended

[Val89]

can u take a break from ur luke fight then and try to further ur reads in one of these nulls o-o if u have any questions about my posts ill respond whenever i see them (:

also val ill be honest, 217 makes u seem a bit scummy imo, it just looks like excuses so that you don't have to respond to luke. if you really dont want to tho, ill drop it.

My answer to both of these is that I am hoping the response of the rest of the player list to Lukes 'case' against me will help me do just that.

The other consideration is when some explicitly says they are ignoring my slot, and suggest they want to move in another direction; then either re-iterates that or tries to defend that as being the pro-town move several times (182,186, 188, 207) - and then suddenly:

*bam* wallpost!

with the express justifcation of because "fuck it", then I have to wonder what the hell, you know?

If a possible scum is trying to distract me (or everyone else) from something that was happening in the thread just prior, and feel it is so important as to abadon their apparently strongly held and defended beleifs on what is pro-town to do so, then I feel like I would be playing into their hands by going along and allowing the distraction, you know?

[Pavowski]

I’m most interested in sorting the Lebowski person.

Who?

Spoiler:

He means me; my username is a mashup of my actual name and one of my favorite movies, The Big Lebowski

[Lukewarm]

Currently at:

Altro, Pav
Umlaut
Not_Mafia, Marci, Zyla
Portia
Val

[Umlaut]

56 was what I meant.

thanks

That wasn't the only case Umluat did that - He also says 115 "by luke" is "actually kinda town", but it's one of my posts.

can u respond to this as well umlaut?

In that one I actually did mean Val and just wrote the wrong name down. I didn't really proofread that post at all so I wouldn't be surprised if there are more errors like that.

[Umlaut]

I also think that it does not help his case, that he has repeatedly said that he is not sure that I am scum. If he was sure that I was scum, it would make a bit more sense that he is completely ignoring my points / discreditting me.

There's not really any good way to engage with someone who is insisting you are mafia, though. Like what is he supposed to say, "Oh well you make a good point there, maybe I'm scum after all"?

[Lukewarm]

I also think that it does not help his case, that he has repeatedly said that he is not sure that I am scum. If he was sure that I was scum, it would make a bit more sense that he is completely ignoring my points / discreditting me.

There's not really any good way to engage with someone who is insisting you are mafia, though. Like what is he supposed to say, "Oh well you make a good point there, maybe I'm scum after all"?

Again, I was not trying to get him to engage me on

my scum read of him.

I made several points talking about

his stated read

<--- and this is what I am saying it is weird for him to have completely ignored.

[alstroemerial]

I just think it's interesting I'm getting pinged for low content by these two. I don't post as much as some, but the shoe is surely on the other foot (or feet) here.

Alstro dropped their vote and dipped for almost 24 hours now. I'm curious if there's anything at all behind it or if they were just hoping to get me to post more (in which case, I think I have). I think they're asking broad questions to give an appearance of scumhunting but I have no idea where they actually stand on anybody.

(Yeah, I know, given my recent posts this is a bit of pot and kettle, but it is what it is, and Marci asked.)

Just a quick playstyle note first in terms of the 24 hours thing -- what has been working best for me is one long period of activity per day rather than in and out. Although in my last game I played a little differently over its course, I found that balancing mafia with the rest of my life is easier with the above method. I know today I was a few hours later than yesterday, but hey. Life happens, you know?

In terms of content, I put in my prior post further explanation of my vote on you, and yeah, you definitely posted more. But I'm a little confused by the charge that I haven't really said anything when comparing 73, 81, 85, etc.?

Let me summarize my stances so far and then give the updates/additions, with the caveat that I haven't gotten past 201 yet.

Zyla was at a light scumlean early on, but like I said, the recent posts had made me start to question that and put her more null.
Luke was at a slight townlean but that has been steadily going down over time and is null or maybe even a light scumread now. (But I saw Luke wall'd recently and that might change my mind, this is

just

as of 201)
Pavowski vote was more to try to squeeze content, which so far I've been a fan of enough to UNVOTE: . Will wait to revote until I finish catching up.
Marci reads town so far due to the balance of trying to pry for info while also sharing her takes.
I don't love Portia in particular because the "sidelines" (168) are not a great place to be.
I like Umlaut's perspective so far and I like Val but I want to take a closer look because I feel like because of my experience with Val in 2068 I could get pocketed really easily.

[alstroemerial]

I agree with Luke that the thread in 205 is in the "if you must know" category -- I don't really see any way the topic gives super meaningful information. If one was scum and we learned about playstyle from that, it would be more compelling to me, but since both were town -- I don't think the similarity is enough to make either look more town. Since it's all kind of NAI, my take is that while the persistence is fine, I think Portia that it is better to focus elsewhere.

It's not that the tunneling is scummy. It's that it went on too long, for my tastes, to be an information-gathering exercise and moved into "this feels motivated" territory,

I just wanted to point out that Luke in 86 linked a super interesting article about RVS. In that post, they linked to "article #1" which talks about the purpose of argument in the game and it really relates to the above post. I found it helpful as a newbie. Ironically based on that article I agree with Pavoswki that it makes Luke look worse

As I'm reading through the discussion over 120 being "a stance" from Portia, and the subsequent loss of temper in 166, I just want to reiterate that I disagree with even the premise of 120. Portia didn't respond, but it's okay because it was half a rhetorical question. Converting it into a sentence -- I disagree that 119 was townie. Even though Pavowski has since given a lot more content, back then it was a little light, even to his admission. So, it's like the one big thing Portia had given was a little flimsy to begin with, when there wasn't a huge shortage of things to comment on. tl;dr: I side with Umlaut over Val in terms of posts 211-213.

Cutting this off again as post is getting long

[Pavowski]

Also, sorry all, I had some RL stuff happen today and I'm too tapped out for thinking, gonna come back and see how all this looks in the morning.

[Lukewarm]

I personally think that elim'ing one of me/Val is probably the play (even if that means you guys yeet me) because it would reveal the most information. More people have weighed on on our 1v1 then anything else in the game, so if we go into Day 2 with info on one or both of those slots, then it will actually give a lot to work with Day 2

--If we do elim within [me, Val], and the consensus is to flip me -- then Val should always be investigated if we have any investigative abilities.
--If the consensus is we flip Val, and he does flip town, I expect apologized from everyone (**eyes Marci**)
--If the consensus is we flip Val, and I am wrong, then I should always be the investigative target if we have any investigative abilities.

[Lukewarm]

I personally think that elim'ing one of me/Val is probably the play (even if that means you guys yeet me) because it would reveal the most information. More people have weighed on on our 1v1 then anything else in the game, so if we go into Day 2 with info on one or both of those slots, then it will actually give a lot to work with Day 2

--If we do elim within [me, Val], and the consensus is to flip me -- then Val should always be investigated if we have any investigative abilities.
--If the consensus is we flip Val, and he does flip

scum

, I expect apologized from everyone (**eyes Marci**)
--If the consensus is we flip Val, and I am wrong, then I should always be the investigative target if we have any investigative abilities.

ebwop

[Val89]

--If the consensus is we flip Val, and he does flip town

--If the consensus is we flip Val, and I am wrong

That awkward moment when you Freudian slip that you know the guy you are pushing is always going to flip town.

Let's have a good laugh about this moment in the post-game together, shall we? Hope your scumbuddy isn't giving you too much crap in the PT right now

[alstroemerial]

He means me; my username is a mashup of my actual name and one of my favorite movies, The Big Lebowski

Thanks, my friends say I'm not the most cultured when it comes to movies. In that case, Portia, since Pav/Leb owski has posted a lot more since you did 168, did you have any progress in sorting?

I personally think that elim'ing one of me/Val is probably the play (even if that means you guys yeet me) because it would reveal the most information.

I'm inclined to agree with this and your suggesting it makes me think you're more likely to be town. However, in case anyone hasn't caught me, I'll admit I have kind of been procrastinating on my goal to read the Val/Luke in extreme, dual-ISO level detail instead of just following the thread. With the way things are going, it seems like that is an inevitable and necessary exercise, though.

[alstroemerial]

I have kind of been procrastinating on my goal to read the Val/Luke in extreme, dual-ISO level detail

Just got ready to start and combined it's almost half the thread

[Lukewarm]

I am going to just add 236 to the list of scummy takes coming from Val

I am okay going first, if that means you guys speed elim Val tomorrow, and let nothing short of a hard cop innocent stop that from happening

VOTE: Luke

[Val89]

He did link an interesting article in 86, didn't he Alstro?

You would think it follows if he linked it and recommended we read it, he must have read it himself.

As a town player, when you vote for yourself, you are voting for the only player in the town that you know to be not scum: Yourself. This means that your vote is inherently unreadable and inherently unhelpful . Some mods go so far as to ban self votes from their game, which is not ok either. You should be able to vote for whomever you want, and when town does this it is bad play, and not out of the purview of the game.

One has to wonder why one would recommend we read an article that takes a very very strong stand on something being anti-town - and then go and do that very thing in that same game if he was town, eh?

[Lukewarm]

See how he continues to ignore the points I have asked him to weigh in on over and over? Shocking
---
If you insist, I will go back to trying to get you eliminated VOTE: Val
-----
I do feel like I should be pretty obviously in my town game for anyone who has played with me before, especially [Marci, Zyla, and Not_Mafia -- maybe a little less so for Pav, because he missed Day 1 of our town game]

^This is the main reason I have Marci as low as I have her on my read list

And I am a little surprised that they don't see that tbh.

[alstroemerial]

Still working through the dual-ISO but I will agree with the sentiment please don't self-vote, if you are town I'd rather we get this right the first time.

I have seen multiple town players self-vote, which is unfortunate but something I know happens, including in the case of offering a "trade" if you've really scumlocked something. So, I don't know if what the article is saying about it being "unreadable and inherently unhelpful" is necessarily true in this case.

Still, I disagree with the self vote

[alstroemerial]

ebwop: never mind

[Val89]

I'm not sure it's really nesscary to respond to any points you've asked me to weigh in on, although I haven't seen any in the last few posts - while you are doing a grand old job of basically bussing yourself here.

I'm not sure why any mafia thinks they can link an article that says "you should never EVER EVER vote for yourself in a game of mafia unless by some way it helps achieve your win condition. A good example of this is Mr. Flay voting himself to achieve a lynch as scum, so that he could end the days discussion and not let the town have information", whilst trying to achieve a lynch and end the days discission, and then say with a straight face that you "should be pretty obviously in [your] town game".

Is this what the mean by the term openwolfing?

[Lukewarm]

I have never wanted a elim more in my life.

@Zyla - the last time you saw me this sure on a read, it was on T3.

• Your experience with me was me catching scum day 1, then catching scum against day 2 -- please humor me with this elim

@Marci - the last time you saw me this sure on a read, it was in regards to how Bingle played Day 1 of our last game, which narrowed the suspects down to exactly [Hopkrik, Vanders] - Bingle later confirmed everything I theorized about him

• I am calling you in for your vote as well.

If you guys follow me today, and it flips town, I am 100% open to being promptly eliminated Day 2 (or better yet, being copped if we have one)

[Lukewarm]

you should never EVER EVER vote for yourself in a game of mafia unless by some way it helps achieve your win condition.

If the town agreed to speed elim you tomorrow, that would be helping my win condition. But your right, the better play is to try and whip up the votes

See above

[Lukewarm]

Is this what the mean by the term openwolfing?

I will say, that I have been accused of "openwolfing" in at least three games I have been in -- I was town in all 3

[Val89]

Begging is such a bad look, Lukewarm.

I know you must obviously have decided I was bluffing when I said there was zero chance of me being the mislim today, which is why you deciding to make this play even more sweeter for me. I am really going to enjoy this game

[Zyla]

Disclaimer, just quickly caught back up, these are what caught my attention, there will be more, and I'm going to go back through again with and without ISOs

I think Zyla is hanging back where she doesn't normally seem to, which is not a great look.

Apologies on this, something IRL that I thought had been dealt with came back to bite me, so I had less free time than expected.
Should be able to get back to at least semi-regular posting soon though

My answer to both of these is that I am hoping the response of the rest of the player list to Lukes 'case' against me will help me do just that.

I'm definitely noting this statement. It's no one's job to defend another player, town or otherwise, unless they have information saying that getting that person eliminated is a bad idea. Luke made a case for you being scum, and whether or not I agree with it, I want to see your reasons or explanations, not Pav or alstro's

I do feel like I should be pretty obviously in my town game for anyone who has played with me before, especially [..] Zyla

This is also kind of interesting to me however, we've established in our previous game that I'm not yet sure on how to differentiate town! and scum!Luke, so why would it be obvious?