Newbie 2070 - Airplanes | GAME OVER

[Marashu]

Official Vote Count 3.03

Lancair IV

---

Elimination

ClarkBar

(1): GrandpaMo

Val89

(1): ClarkBar

GrandpaMo

(1): Val89

Not Voting

(2): Roden, Nancy Drew 39

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-07-15 18:36:48).

Mod notes:

With 5 alive, 3 votes are required for an elimination.

[GrandpaMo]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

Why do you sr Val > Clark?

I don't thats the problem. They are both equally as scum.

I townread Val more than Chuck actually and thought the pool should be Roden and Clark but since everyone was so adamant on town reading Roden and Nancy, I dropped that read. So in that case that implies I should be scumreading Clark, in which I do.

UNVOTE:

[GrandpaMo]

I did not mean to unvote

VOTE: ClarkBaR

[GrandpaMo]

If you don't vote Clark, I'm going to take it as you need him in end game because you're scum. If you vote Val, I'll consider it a scum tell. It's up to you to interpret why I think this.

u literally did what u are talking bout.


if i dont vote clark, meaning i vote val, you will scumread me.

if i vote val, you will consider it scumtell.

thats literally what u said

so who ever i vote, you will scumread me regardless??? what anti town behavior shit is that

You've already contradicted yourself here.

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

Yes, and I said this to Clark too. I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I think I accidently misinterpreted this post.

[GrandpaMo]

I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I must have missed your explanation for this, I apologize. Why are you almost entirely certain Val is town?

So I'm really torn between Val and Grandpa, as my voting and posting demonstrates. I think that you should all just eliminate me. I'm widely scumread (not sure why) and that's cool. I'll be an issue going forward, and it feels like arguments are going in circles at this point. Plus I'm just vanilla, so no harm no foul. Obviously it would be preferable to get scum today, but Grandpa has 131 going for him, Val has Roden's (almost) certainty that he is town, and I have nothing. I think my play and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor, but that is apparently just me.

I won't vote for myself out of principle, but beyond that I don't think I have anything left to say.

Either Clark is brilliant here or he’s actually telling the truth.

@Mo, can you please give us some reads. You’re the only one who is taking the attitude that everyone but you is equally likely to be scum.

I already have.

I already pointed out that every avenue that you all could be scum.

I had roden and clark as the poe, but I gave up pushing that narrative because both Clark and Val and you nancy decided to townread Roden same with Nancy, so if you both are scum either or, then GG you probably won the game. And I was townreading Val already AT THAT TIME because of meta, and how they were playing the exact same way where they townread me, then pivot onto a scumread just out of paranoia, that's what happened in the other game and we both flipped town.

But throught the non scum reads on roden and nancy, that forced me to have a poe on Clark and Val and everyone was saying poe of Clark and Val and not roden

That made me reread the game, I think that it is either or and that both have the same liable scum equity in each slot, so if Clark flipped town, Val was to be scum and vice versa.

[GrandpaMo]

Also, Val if you are town you should be voting Clark here.

You are just setting me up for a mislim for tomorrow by voting me.

That would make the most sense as you kept changing your vote everytime clark did.

[GrandpaMo]

you need to stop and then reread the game every time.

This is so frustrating to see you post lol. I've been begging you to reread because you keep getting things wrong, please don't project this on me.

also this meant to be in the context of like if u have bias then you wil entually have to reread teh game and get different interpertations

This isn't bias.

I wasn't saying that...

[GrandpaMo]

I never thought I would ever find myself pleased at having been scumread, but the possibility that it would otherwise be me casting the decision vote in a ELO with Grandpa in it chills me to the core.

Why does this even mean?

[GrandpaMo]

I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I must have missed your explanation for this, I apologize. Why are you almost entirely certain Val is town?

So I'm really torn between Val and Grandpa, as my voting and posting demonstrates. I think that you should all just eliminate me. I'm widely scumread (not sure why) and that's cool. I'll be an issue going forward, and it feels like arguments are going in circles at this point. Plus I'm just vanilla, so no harm no foul. Obviously it would be preferable to get scum today, but Grandpa has 131 going for him, Val has Roden's (almost) certainty that he is town, and I have nothing. I think my play and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor, but that is apparently just me.

I won't vote for myself out of principle, but beyond that I don't think I have anything left to say.

Do you think roden can be scum??

[GrandpaMo]

Also @Clark why do you say you have nothing, when I see an apparant possible towncase for you?

Can you tell me why you are town?

[Val89]

I had roden and clark as the poe, but I gave up pushing that narrative because both Clark and Val and you nancy decided to townread Roden same with Nancy

No, Grandpa; if you are town, and you think there is an actual decent case to why Roden could be scum; you make it. You don't just give up because others are currently townreading them. If Roden is the scum here, Town winning the game depends on town!you convincing the rest of us of that.

This is the scummiest thing I've heard anyone say all game.

[ClarkBar]

and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor,

Clark, would you mind explaining what you mean by this?

I feel like I already have. Maybe too much. It's not really meant as a defense at this point, but I feel I had the most valid vote on D2. Yes, I was wrong, but I presented clear reasoning and engaged with the person I had the strongest suspicion of. I believe in looking at how and why wagons form. I'm in the apparent minority that finds that exercise more valuable and town-friendly than PR/Setup speculation. So, if we look at the D2 Chuck wagon there is the current scum-pool plus T3 who was town and is gone. I feel (and this is of course subjective) that my vote for Chuck was proactive and intentional, and that I was actually scum-hunting even though I missed. On the other hand I feel that you and grandpa voted with a shrug. My vote was the least opportunistic by a hefty margin.

[ClarkBar]

Do you think roden can be scum??

Oh for sure. But paranoia isn't going to be helpful here. For Nancy to be scum would be such an achievement it may not even be appropriate for a newbie game. For Roden to be scum would require a hell of a bus job. Also it would mean that Roden was able to avoid the Chuck wagon all together and luck into a really lazy effort by town on D2. Those two slots don't make sense given how the game has shaken out. Is it impossible that Roden gambled on a hard bus job, got lucky with Chuck, and is currently giving Val a strong town read in order to have a Lylo to his liking? Not at all. Is that scenario something I think is wise to act on? No.

But I have been wrong all game.

[ClarkBar]

Also @Clark why do you say you have nothing, when I see an apparant possible towncase for you?

Can you tell me why you are town?

Like I said, you have 131 where proven scum endorsed your wagon. That's points for you. Val has Roden in their pocket (or vice-versa maybe) due to their spat with Val being "so TvT it hurts" and 708. You can debate the value of both of those reasons, but the point is there is nothing specific to distinguish me as town to anybody. I can point to my general play, especially D2, but that's it.

You have a towncase for me? Bring it! Why are you voting me? Why aren't you voting your suspicions? You keep talking about "pushing narratives" and PR's etc. but I haven't seen you convincingly scumhunt all game.

[Val89]

Roden, if you are sure I am town, and you don't want me self-hammering; how about this for a plan:

Clark is already voting me and can't do so again; How about YOU vote me, and then if Grandpa hammers me, you take that at an absolute 100% cast iron scum claim and whoever is alive agrees he goes tomorrow, no discussion, gg.

If Nancy hammers me, then the likleyhood is she would have hammered me tomrrow in the 3p, and it's best to get my flip done before it costs us the game. If potentially Nacy could be deciding on dropping the hammer on Val or {Grandpa,Clark}, and drop it wrong will cost us the game, perhaps we should have that decision today, when the wrong one won't be an auto scumwin.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm almost entirely certain Val is town and I'll consider it scummy if anyone wants him or Nancy gone.

I must have missed your explanation for this, I apologize. Why are you almost entirely certain Val is town?

So I'm really torn between Val and Grandpa, as my voting and posting demonstrates. I think that you should all just eliminate me. I'm widely scumread (not sure why) and that's cool. I'll be an issue going forward, and it feels like arguments are going in circles at this point. Plus I'm just vanilla, so no harm no foul. Obviously it would be preferable to get scum today, but Grandpa has 131 going for him, Val has Roden's (almost) certainty that he is town, and I have nothing. I think my play and how the wagon on Chuck went goes strongly in my favor, but that is apparently just me.

I won't vote for myself out of principle, but beyond that I don't think I have anything left to say.

Either Clark is brilliant here or he’s actually telling the truth.

@Mo, can you please give us some reads. You’re the only one who is taking the attitude that everyone but you is equally likely to be scum.

I already have.

I already pointed out that every avenue that you all could be scum.

I had roden and clark as the poe, but I gave up pushing that narrative because both Clark and Val and you nancy decided to townread Roden same with Nancy, so if you both are scum either or, then GG you probably won the game. And I was townreading Val already AT THAT TIME because of meta, and how they were playing the exact same way where they townread me, then pivot onto a scumread just out of paranoia, that's what happened in the other game and we both flipped town.

But throught the non scum reads on roden and nancy, that forced me to have a poe on Clark and Val and everyone was saying poe of Clark and Val and not roden

That made me reread the game, I think that it is either or and that both have the same liable scum equity in each slot, so if Clark flipped town, Val was to be scum and vice versa.

Yes, of course from your pov anyone could be but that stance isn’t helpful and not pro-town. Everyone else seems to be taking a stand here, especially Roden, so I don’t understand why scum!Roden locktowns 2 slots in Elo.

So are you now removing Roden and me from your PoE?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Both Val and Clark seem so townie and Roden townlocking 2 slots is scum suicide. I’m really starting to think it could be Mo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

[Val89]

It's 100% in ClarkBar, GrandpaMo; but I'm really struggling to decide who is the best chance of just start up ending the game today.

I think it's clear there is no PR now. We've all come out and talked today, and nobody has a claim - I was trying to soft that I might have a PR role at the end of D1 and into D2 in order to try and maybe draw the NK, but I'm VT. If there was a PR, its either FN, and one of the slots is conftown and should have gotten that message to a breathing slot by now; or it's a tracker, in which case they should have cleared at least one slot, if not two, by now as well as being conftown themselves; and the nobody has come out to clear slot mechanicially when that would help us a lot right now. I would treat any PR claim henseforth with a HUGE pinch of salt, particulary if it came from Grandpa.

If there was a PR, then T3 dying in belief that maybe he was actually tracker and it was the claim-retraction was false makes a bit of sense, but if there is no PR, then his death must have been for another reason. T3 is the biggest risk to a scum!Grandpa, as Grandpa himself has been open about since D1, so I think T3 death makes scum!Grandpa a bit more likley.

Then again, no PR means Grandpa's apparent PR hunting on D2 wasn't scummy. Why would scum PR hunt when they know there is no PR? That makes scum!Grandpa less likley.

So yeah....fuck.

[Val89]

straight-up ending*

[GrandpaMo]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

that wasn't my original point. i misinterperted what roden was originally saying and i had thought that if i scumread either or then i would still be a scumread -- so thats why i had made it a problem.

my point was that it didnt matter for me to vote, because i thought there was at least ONE scum between val and clark.

idgaf if i get scumread, heck i careless that im being scumread by roden the most, im more focusing on the weird unvote and votes happening from both of clark and val.

both are playing lamist playstyles and one is just misguided town

[GrandpaMo]

Both Val and Clark seem so townie and Roden townlocking 2 slots is scum suicide. I’m really starting to think it could be Mo.

thats why im having paranoia about roden being scum.

or you possibly pocketing me, then doing this weird flip shit where you scumread me towards eod after townreading me all game, same thing that val did.

you should have thought it was me since day 1 -- and not rely on meta because i am town.

you should be able to townread me based on this game if i was town in ur eyes or scum if i was scum in ur eyes.

i hate when ppl start having this instant pocketing shit then proceed to scumread out of no where.

why do you think i explored the options that YOU or roden could be scum, while not just relying on me, val, clark being scum.

i was the only one to push that narrative where you could be scum, and you even agree with me. i can just easily just set up a chain lim on val today and push clark tmr, or vice versa as scum. i dont see the point for me as scum, to push the narrative that it possibly could be roden when the attention focus is on clark, val, and me and while those 2 INCLUDING U NANCY townreading nancy, i dont think i would take that risk as solo scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

are you saying u will scumread me if i vote val because i dont wanna vote clark

and you will scumread me if i just vote val as scumread?

If you really think Val is scum, why does it matter if Roden would sr you for it? If I was confident on Val!scum, I wouldn’t gaf what Roden or anyone else thought.

I don’t recall in that game we played, you being this self-conscious about being sr. You pretty much pushed whatever you felt like without really much concern for what anyone else thought.

that wasn't my original point. i misinterperted what roden was originally saying and i had thought that if i scumread either or then i would still be a scumread -- so thats why i had made it a problem.

my point was that it didnt matter for me to vote, because i thought there was at least ONE scum between val and clark.

idgaf if i get scumread, heck i careless that im being scumread by roden the most, im more focusing on the weird unvote and votes happening from both of clark and val.

both are playing lamist playstyles and one is just misguided town

Can you give us a readslist? You are the only one necessary to ask this because I’m still not completely sure where you stand.

[GrandpaMo]

Then again, no PR means Grandpa's apparent PR hunting on D2 wasn't scummy. Why would scum PR hunt when they know there is no PR? That makes scum!Grandpa less likley.

So yeah....fuck.

???

Again, I was never to PR hunt in the first place. You have played with me plus Nancy has, you should know I ask people for their read list etc, you should know I rely on meta + associative reads mainly as town.

You should know that is literally how I come about MY information.

[Val89]

I really need to hear fom Grandpa on what's in James' ISO that makes him think {Clark, Roden}.

I just went back to the start of today to try look at the vote pattern Grandpa is complaining about; and realised that I don't think we ever got an answer to this, did we?