Newbie 2072: All Guns Blazing!! - Ended

[Lukewarm]

@Everyone

The more I think about it, and the more I look back over her iso, the more sure I am that Zyla is town. Don't like that she is the current leading wagon


If absolutely everyone is against flipping inside of me+Val, how does everyone feel about flipping Not_Mafia today?

[Val89]

I think we all know by know that if I try and ask Lukewarm some questions, her will just wave it off as "ahh, scum is asking, I'm not engaging", so can someone do me a favour and ask Lukewarm for me?

Would you mind asking him why he things shortening quotes misleadingly is a dumb play to make from town?

While you are at it, would you also ask him why he chose to omit "If it's clear that I am wrong about it being obvious crap (I've been wrong about stuff like this before) and a substantial number of other players seem like they might be confused by it, then I might have something more to say;" from his quote of my 217, and why he ommited "That awkward moment when you Freudian slip that you know the guy you are pushing is always going to flip town. " from the 236 quote?

Thanks in advance.

--Val89.

[Lukewarm]

Where I am at right now

The "I would rather die before they were the elim" Tier

:: Pav, Umlaut, and Zyla

The "They are probably towns, but I cannot say with such certainty" Tier

: Marci, Alstro

Could be scum, but assuming they are town, this feels like the exact person that the scum team would push for a miselim on

:: Portia

The "Not_Mafia, but also Not_Mafa is standing out to me in strange ways" tier

:: Not Mafia

Actually just scum tier

:: Val

[Val89]

Luke's The "Not_Mafia, but also Not_Mafa is standing out to me in strange ways" tier: Not Mafia

Luke's The "Not_Mafia, but also Not_Mafa is standing out to me in strange ways" and that's enough to recommend them for a lim tier: Not Mafia.

If that's all you got for why you think Not Mafia should be the lim today, you can put him in my "I would rather die before I let obvscum push them as a good lim without pointing out how scummy that is" Tier, ya feel me?

[Lukewarm]

I think that Val has not learned the art of scum hunting by Process of Elimination.

I got lots of town reads this game, BABEYYYYYY

[Lukewarm]

Would you mind asking him why he things shortening quotes misleadingly is a dumb play to make from town?

Because misleading people as town is generally a bad play??

{snip} why {snip} omit {snip} ?

This "why did you shorten quotes" argument is actually pretty dumb. From my pov, every player reading my posts read the quotes when they were posted, and should be at least somewhat familiar with the context. If they did not remember the context, they could click the post link in the quote. It is literally right there.

-----------------------

And for the examples that were just listed, the things that were pointed out were not relevant to the discussion I was having. My point was that Val was that following post 214, Val was speaking in such a way that that made it seem like he was 100% sure that I was scum / he was not worried about me being a tunneled townie.

If Val can show show a space where I omitted something that showed he NOT 100% sure that I was scum, of if he can show show a space where I omitted something that showed he WAS worried about me being a tunneled townie -- then maybe he would have a point, that I shortened too much to the point of being misleading

[Val89]

Yeah, I'll give you that one. I might need to hone my skills in that department. At the moment, I tend to look for people doing things that ping me as scummy, then I scumread them for that.

Speaking of which:

After playing like 4-ish games with Not_Mafia, I am against a Day 1 Not_Mafia elim, and generally suspicious of people who lean into eliming him Day 1 -- he is an easy miselim target / angle for the scum team to push. Plus, I have also found him to be a pretty good scum hunter, and would like to see any pushes that he leans into before I personally try to sort him.

I don't have any experience with Not_Mafia, but I think 128 Luke talks a lot of sense. Something must have changed since then, I guess. That's fine, people change their opinions as the game goes on, not going to criticise you for that. Let me go see what scummy things Not_mafia might have done to make you think he might be worth limming since then.

*Opens Not_mafia ISO, reads posts from 128 down*

Oh, he started giving indications (like the 'non-vote' and talking of a 'scum you') that he might be starting to scumread you. So, what you meant in 128 is that you would like to keep him around to see what lean/pushes he makes, just as long as they aren't directed at you?
I'm also wondering to myself why you are pontificating to the room about if there is maybe an appetite for limming not_mafia, rather than actually making a case or dropping a vote - would that be just a little

too

obvious, perhaps?

By the way, I kinda like this sort of jokey, sarcastic style we seem to developing towards each other, do you think it might help town actually start paying attention to us a little more, rather than just scroll past when they see our avatars?

[Lukewarm]

**I grabbed the shortest quotes needed to show the thing I am trying to show**

"But why didn't you also include these other quotes that neither proved nor disproved the point you were making, and are therefore irrelevant?????"

[Val89]

Because misleading people as town is generally a bad play??

Would town you ever intentially mislead people by snipping a post, then?

If Val can show show a space where I omitted something that showed he NOT 100% sure that I was scum, of if he can show show a space where I omitted something that showed he WAS worried about me being a tunneled townie -- then maybe he would have a point, that I shortened too much to the point of being misleading

Sure, thought I just did, actually.

Spoiler: Val's tone after 214

No offense, but I know your case is bullshit, and I think it's fairly obviously bullshit and will be seen as such by the other players

In post 217 Val

ALSO

Wrote:

If it's clear that I am wrong about it being obvious crap (I've been wrong about stuff like this before) and a substantial number of other players seem like they might be confused by it, then I might have something more to say

That would seem to indicate I was NOT 100% sure about it, no?

[Lukewarm]

Dude, you are acting like I have not already been talking about Not_Mafia

453 - 455 - 473

Your reaction right now is a bit wild.

Are you town reading Not_Mafia enough that you are ready to go out and hard defend him here?

----------------

I literally preambled it with "If we are absolutely not going to go with Val, then here is my elim priority order:"

So, I'll ask you to do the same "If we are absolutly not going to go with Luke, then what is your elim priority order"

[Lukewarm]

In post 217 Val

ALSO

Wrote:

If it's clear that I am wrong about it being obvious crap (I've been wrong about stuff like this before) and a substantial number of other players seem like they might be confused by it, then I might have something more to say

That would seem to indicate I was NOT 100% sure about it, no?

If you say so.

I read that to mean "if people start buying your case, then I will start defending myself" --- which has nothing to do with your read on me, and is why I did not think it was relevant

[Lukewarm]

Val appears to have gotten really angry

[Lukewarm]

On a second read, it seems less angry. I just read the bold as yelling the first time

[Lukewarm]

In post 217 Val

ALSO

Wrote:

If it's clear that I am wrong about it being obvious crap (I've been wrong about stuff like this before) and a substantial number of other players seem like they might be confused by it, then I might have something more to say

That would seem to indicate I was NOT 100% sure about it, no?

If you say so.

I read that to mean "if people start buying your case, then I will start defending myself" --- which has nothing to do with your read on me, and is why I did not think it was relevant

If anything, that further supports my point

You did not care to talk about the reasons I was scum reading you, you only wanted to talk about it if other people thought my case had merit.

I.E. you were not thinking about the possibility that you might potentially be dealing with a tunneled townie that you might be able to talk out of a tunnel

[Lukewarm]

Jesus Christ. I let him pull me back into a 1v1 again

[Val89]

Dude, you are acting like I have not already been talking about Not_Mafia

453 - 455 - 473

Your reaction right now is a bit wild.

Are you town reading Not_Mafia enough that you are ready to go out and hard defend him here?

Yes, but all of those posts come AFTER Not_Mafia did the things I said. You made 128, Not_mafia starts soft-SR you, and apart from asking why Zyla is being wagoned, and to say Umlaut hasn't contributed at a time that statement was true, thats ALL he has done, and then comes your 453 - 455 -473. That would seem to support my point.

I'm not town reading Not_Mafia; I'm not sure what I would be hard defending him against. I will hard defend against the idea that we should lim someone I'm not finding scummy, and I fail to see how anyone can be at this juncture, unless it's for lack of content; which I am happy to call NAI unless it continues. I certainly don't think we should be considering limming him until we have a response to your questions.

No, I bloody well don't. Policy lim him for what, exactly? Making the same Jester claim everywhere and having a reputation for quickhammering in non-newbie games?

If it's for lack of content, then it's the mods job to prod them, not for town to lim them.

This still stands. I still don't see any reason for limming Not_mafia; policy or otherwise. I, too, would appreciate a little more content and some answers to your questions, but to ask them and then suggest we lim a slot before we get them? Sounds to me like you might not actually be that interested in getting those answers.

If that counts as hard defending Not_mafia in your eyes, then yes, I am hard defending Not_mafia.

I have also been resisting the Zyla wagon for much the same reason. (340,385)

[ArcAngel9]

Vote Count 1-8

Portia :

alstroemerial

Pavowski :

alstroemerial :

Zyla :

marcistar,Umlaut, Pavowski (E-2)

Lukewarm :

Val89,

Val89 :

Portia, Lukewarm,

Not_Mafia :

,

Umlaut :

Not_Mafia,

marcistar :

Not Voting

: Zyla

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: July 16, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-07-16 12:50:00)

Mod Notes:

Portia has been prodded.
-

[Lukewarm]

I have also been resisting the Zyla wagon for much the same reason. (340,385)

Dear lord, I think that me and Val agree on something

We both don't like the Zyla wagon. I want to help move that wagon else where, instead of leaving it here until the end of day, and her getting eliminated because I can't pull my head out of tunneling on to you long enough to shut that down.

They apparently won't follow me onto a wagon on you.

I am leaning town, with varying degrees of certainty, on: Zyla, Pav, Umlaut, Marci and Alstro

That just leaves Portia and Not_Mafia

I chose Not_Mafia

[Val89]

I'm going to go on the record here and say if you go back and look at the last page, posts 486, 487 and 489 add literally zero content, and if Lukewarm was truely worried about spamming up the thread, those could easily have been ommitted.

I conjecture that Luke is doing so deliberately in order to make that page look longer than it needs to be, that you will see *another* back and forth between Val and Lukewarm, and skip it. Please don't. If he doing that, you can expect there to be some good stuff in here. Worthwhile reading, perhaps.

[Lukewarm]

If you don't want me to be the one moving the wagon off of Zyla, then

step up dude

If you were to take me off of the table, who would you want the elim to be?

Suggest people move off of the Zyla wagon, and go there.

[Lukewarm]

@Everyone, I did not want this to get buried in the 1v1

@Everyone

The more I think about it, and the more I look back over her iso, the more sure I am that Zyla is town. Don't like that she is the current leading wagon


If absolutely everyone is against flipping inside of me+Val, how does everyone feel about flipping Not_Mafia today?

Where I am at right now

The "I would rather die before they were the elim" Tier

:: Pav, Umlaut, and Zyla

The "They are probably towns, but I cannot say with such certainty" Tier

: Marci, Alstro

Could be scum, but assuming they are town, this feels like the exact person that the scum team would push for a miselim on

:: Portia

The "Not_Mafia, but also Not_Mafa is standing out to me in strange ways" tier

:: Not Mafia

Actually just scum tier

:: Val

[Val89]

Even if I were able to deduce who you scum partner is today, I would still be recommending we lim you today, because you are the one doing the empty posting I refer to above.

Scum you has form for this. Here is Pav, talking about your scum game:

Anyway you threw enough garbage into the water that it worked

I would

LOVE

to remove the source of the garbage in the water this game, and I think we would stand in a much better position to find the other scum who is may well be staying back and laying low. Again, you are now approaching 1.75x times more posts that me, the second most prolific poster, and have more posts than Portia, Umlaut, Not_Mafia, Marci, Alstro and Zyla combined.

If you really need an answer, with you off the table, and you should NEVER be off the table, you can look at 408. Alstro is gradually moving into that zone, too, but isn't there yet; and I wouldn't be limming Umlaut over you today in any world.

@Everyone, I did not want this to get buried in the 1v1

On the other hand, you DO want the rest of it to get burried??

[Lukewarm]

Just to make it clear to the thread, I think that at this point

I, Lukewarm,

would be a better elim then : Zyla, Pva, and Umlaut.

If you don't want to follow me onto a Not_Mafia vote, then feel free to follow Val onto a Luke Vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Lukewarm]

I think that that shocked Val

I will fill in for him:

"But Luke said that if he voted for anyone other then Val, to treat it like a scum claim"

If you want to go there, vote me.

But if any of :Zyla, Pav, or Umlaunt were the elims today, I think I would scream.

Would rather be the elim myself.

[Val89]

Fair enough.

Can I make a suggestion, though, seriously?

If you are really, actually worried about important stuff getting lost in the 1v1; can you refrain from posting things like:

'Oh no Val's angry'; (486)
'Oh , perhaps he isnt!', (487)
and 'Oh no! We are in a 1v1 again! It'll would be such a terrible shame if this discussion got clogged up with one-liners that are devoid of game-moving content, right kids? ' (489)

I suspect you are doing it deliberately, but on the off chance you aren't, then serious advice: that might help just a little bit.