Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Morning Tweet]

I agree with you that Nakata comes off as more rational/nuanced in Forest Fire. The logic Nakata is using here (Ircher is not a criminal says Yin, therefore my read of Ircher is right, therefore I'm town and Morning is scum) is way less deep and very leap-y in comparison.

Course, it's a different game and perhaps something else has caused this -- he's not a replacement, there's less to work with, there's weird mechanics.... but it could also be due to a difference in alignment.

[Amy Dunne]

Robert, I'm really imploring you to consider other options scumreads-wise.

I will target whoever YOU tell me to. No one else.

Do you have scumreads other than Ydrasse?

Also, allow me to elaborate on why I think Ydrasse is town.

Starting page 17. Infinity has a bad faith read on me. Ydrasse instantly opposes Infy, pointing out why the read is wrong in the context of mafiascum rpg and also makes probably the first accusation of the game of Infy being off/weird. Ydrasse and Infy are using the same game and the same "tell" with the same reasoning, yet Infy is twisting it to make me scum whereas Ydrasse does not. She also instantly opposes Infy and calls her out on being off -- i would be fairly surprised if thats s/s

(this is about page 35 and on). Moving on later in the game, stuff flows around blablabla and Nakata nearly dies with Ydrasse at the head of the wagon. She also finds you scummy I believe. Norwe votes Infy for being scummy but is on his own until Tanner/Chara/clidd join, and then Ydrasse posts 967. It's a detailed recollection and working thru of her thoughts, which i like, and the confidence on her reads also pings towny. I think Ydrasse's relenting on Nakata that page is more towny, it doesnt ping like scum who is going to miselim Nakata on a later date even though she explicitly says she will kill Nakata if Infy flips scum. hard to explain

like you have a very ... strong reaction to being pushed on no offence but if you seemed viable at the time (and i think you were before you actually started interacting with him) i understand why a scum!satoru would go for it before realizing.

Ydrassee <3 you're so much better at wording it than me

this also probably suggests nakata and ydrasse are more likely town

The Infy wagon falls apart momentarily and the Nakata one starts again. Ircher gets a lot of heat too. Infy is all but forgotten Ircher is X-1'd. Page 55. Infy seems to TMI ircher town. Tanner and clidd vote Infy, Infy says something scummy and Ydrasse immediately calls it out (the second time she's done so this game literally immediately after Infy posts). This is the wagon that sticks and kills Infy

Ydrasse is obviously not a buddy but considering we know Ircher is town, how do you account for the difference between how Infinity treated him > Nakata?

Another thing is why did Flea vanity votepark Tanner for as long as fae did but completely but only pushed Nakata once Infinity wagon was pretty much unstoppable? That’s what’s not making sense to me. Flea could have had a much better chance at getting Nakata limmed bedore Infinity wagon became unstoppable.

[Morning Tweet]

also the "scumslip" by me -- I find it so incredibly hard to believe someone with experience playing with me could interpret something like that as a scumtell. But my own personal bias clouds that i suppose. I just figured it was probably more well known that if my posts are sloppy, it's towny

Ydrasse is obviously not a buddy but considering we know Ircher is town, how do you account for the difference between how Infinity treated him > Nakata?

Another thing is why did Flea vanity votepark Tanner for as long as fae did but completely but only pushed Nakata once Infinity wagon was pretty much unstoppable? That’s what’s not making sense to me. Flea could have had a much better chance at getting Nakata limmed bedore Infinity wagon became unstoppable.

I think if Flea is scum fae is voteparking, fixating on the mechanics, and so on as a way to avoid making reads. Flea could have played more actively to get someone killed, yes, but people don't always play optimally and Flea was a fairly absent voice during d1.

Also, Nakata comes off as a designated town for Infinity to push whereas Ircher was town that Infy wanted credit for calling town before he was miselimed. So, basically Infy's read on Nakata comes off as a scumread on town whereas her read on Ircher comes off as a TMI townread on town. Both scummy and both seeming to be on town, but for different reasons.

Infy isn't going to treat all town the same way, of course!

[Amy Dunne]

This could possibly be anti-associative but when you consider Infinity’s positioning around Ircher, then I don’t see how it’s clearing?

Infy did nothing but defend Ircher really. On his deathbed, granted, but still.

I believe Infy was pushing Nakata during at least two of the periods where it seemed Nakata would die. At least one of which was before Ircher was even a thing. Infy basically sat on Nakata all day, and im unsure she's tunnel a scumpartner like that without being under significant pressure herself.

Like if she knew she'd die, then sure. Or if she knew another wagon would go through, sure. But from what I can tell it seems like she put Nakata at significant risk and under the guise of being too "lazy" to reevaluate elsewhere. An odd thing to do to a partner.

It would be if we hadn’t narrowed down the lim to exactly Ircher/Nakata/Infinity. That’s my point, it probably would be anti-associative in that case but we have scum!Infinity defending town!Ircher, so who else could she push? She obviously wasn’t going to push herself.

[Amy Dunne]

I agree with you that Nakata comes off as more rational/nuanced in Forest Fire. The logic Nakata is using here (Ircher is not a criminal says Yin, therefore my read of Ircher is right, therefore I'm town and Morning is scum) is way less deep and very leap-y in comparison.

Course, it's a different game and perhaps something else has caused this -- he's not a replacement, there's less to work with, there's weird mechanics.... but it could also be due to a difference in alignment.

I keep thinking what the NPAs said about 3 factions. What they haven’t made clear is is all scum is mafia or not, so if this is possibly multiball, that could put a wrinkle into everything.

But even if hypothetically only 2/3 scum are Mafia, there would have to be at least 2 mafias minimum if not 3.

[Morning Tweet]

I agree with you that Nakata comes off as more rational/nuanced in Forest Fire. The logic Nakata is using here (Ircher is not a criminal says Yin, therefore my read of Ircher is right, therefore I'm town and Morning is scum) is way less deep and very leap-y in comparison.

Course, it's a different game and perhaps something else has caused this -- he's not a replacement, there's less to work with, there's weird mechanics.... but it could also be due to a difference in alignment.

I keep thinking what the NPAs said about 3 factions. What they haven’t made clear is is all scum is mafia or not, so if this is possibly multiball, that could put a wrinkle into everything.

But even if hypothetically only 2/3 scum are Mafia, there would have to be at least 2 mafias minimum if not 3.

at the very least, i think the nightkill is likely by the team that contained Infy -- Norwe was very clearly not a part of them and they chose to kill him figuring he'd be hard to elim down the line

[Morning Tweet]

It would be if we hadn’t narrowed down the lim to exactly Ircher/Nakata/Infinity. That’s my point, it probably would be anti-associative in that case but we have scum!Infinity defending town!Ircher, so who else could she push? She obviously wasn’t going to push herself.

True but im fairly sure Infy had been pushing Nakata way earlier in the game when it just between like, Nakata and Robert. The tunneling lasted a while, its just something im not sure Infy would do to a partner.

But ill check to make sure thats the case another time.

[Yang]

INFINITY IS OBVTOWN

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Is Yang drunk? >.>

[Ydrasse]

i got irritated w this game so i spent yesterday grinding in wow, anyways

i don’t think the way infinity reacted with nakata is inherently clearing? infinity was under pressure early for feeling “off” and there weren’t many times where that sort of passive pressure relented on her. if she wasn’t feeling this game (which i believe is entirely due to her alignment) but she doesn’t want to throw, i think that her pushing one partner who’s being wagoned while defending the other makes sense?

it’s way easier when you’re unsure to point out things that you actually see as scummy because you KNOW they’re scummy, and defending the wagon you’re potentially competing against (ircher) is something people don’t think scum would do on a shallow level of play. it’s a good way to get towncred on both fronts that was in short stock for infinity this game because she didn’t have the time/energy to put it making more nuanced reads on other people. (and imo her most nuanced read WAS nakata). so i’m leaning towards it being damning rather than clearing. it’s hard to tell though since nakata ghosted this game so if we get a rep they can... at least post something?

also lol at infinity trying to pocket me in retrospect

[Ydrasse]

flea being scum is possible. but what was the scumteam’s plan if it’s like, fae + infinity + something like robert or nakata? fae hasn’t done much on the side of like... solving in a game sense, mechanically sure. like there are weird votes and tunnels and vote parking and just a lack of substance which i guess if you have a team like the suggested you don’t have a lot of sway this game and hope you... survive by being “creative town” as someone earlier said, marching to the beat of your own drum because what scum would do that lol

but. atp i feel that’d be signing your teams deathwish bc of the like, strong townreads that have formed? you can’t survive thru a poe of like, me/tanner/amy or something going to endgame (sorry ircher but i think between the bomb and a nk you might be going down) the second tier of this becomes like mt/pooky/chara to work with? like there’s not really room for the bottom poe unless they kick it into gear and even if fleas been busy i feel fae... could have done that which uh. hm. i guess if flea ever does flip scum after we do like, robert (srry still don’t believe the vig claim) + nakata it suggests a Deepwoof but we’d realize that by that point anyways so w/e

[Ydrasse]

also, fwiw i still don’t see value in solving what a criminal is by virtue of my own reads meaning it doesn’t make sense, and also playing 20 questions to solve the game seems like incredibly bad setup design. i also just don’t find it that engaging as a mechanique even if it is truthful and could spend hours regardless spinning reasons why the info is probably useless based off of yin/yang being opposites but then i’m just being pedantic

[clidd]

We should probably just keep pushing/eliminating scummy slots until the moment we really need to rationalize if any scum is off the radar.

[Ydrasse]

yeah i’m not interested in hunting in my townreads but it was a theoretical of how/why flea would be Like This as scum

[Flea The Magician]

ok I reached 94 of 99 before passing out last night and ye gods am I suffering today.

Please tell me we're eliminating Robert? Their AtE is beyond a joke at this point.

[Ydrasse]

haha... yeah we sure are... aha

[Amy Dunne]

ok I reached 94 of 99 before passing out last night and ye gods am I suffering today.

Please tell me we're eliminating Robert? Their AtE is beyond a joke at this point.

Isn’t your vote still on Tanner?

If he’s determined to kill my strongest trs, I’m onboard.

[Ydrasse]

he said he’d let mt leash him or w/e but grain of salt

[Flea The Magician]

@Yin

How many bullets do the town have that one person controls.

@Yang

Got any good tips for dehydration?

[Flea The Magician]

ok I reached 94 of 99 before passing out last night and ye gods am I suffering today.

Please tell me we're eliminating Robert? Their AtE is beyond a joke at this point.

Isn’t your vote still on Tanner?

If he’s determined to kill my strongest trs, I’m onboard.

yes, it is, because I'm a few pages behind and I don't want to end up lolhammering.

[clidd]

lol Flea is scum.

[Ydrasse]

what makes you sure?

[Amy Dunne]

he said he’d let mt leash him or w/e but grain of salt

I’m starting to think he could be scum, that unwarrented excessive hostility and unwillingness to engage and work with others and rather than take responsibility for the reactions he’s getting - he’s blaming it on us being some kind of clicque, rather than acknowledging that he’s going out of his way to antagonize people.

If he’s scum along with Infinity, I’m guessing scum perhaps has some pretty difficult wincon, because both seem incredibly unhappy to be in this game.

It also really can’t be a lot if fun to be Ircher here either, I’d imagine.

That’s what bothering me about both Robert and Nakata. Neither are seeming to gaf what anyone else tells them in this game.

[clidd]

what makes you sure?

Gut ping, but meh.

I've been cognitively disconnected from the game since the beginning of today, so that's an isolated impression I got rn.

[clidd]

Still, I'm leaning to elim Robert/Nakata more.