Mini Theme 2217 | Owner's market blitz | Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Imaginality doesn't receive his QT until daystart and cannot post in it unless he is alive.

[marcistar]

Imaginality doesn't receive his QT until daystart and cannot post in it unless he is alive.

we were talking all throughout last day phase
so im a bit confused?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Did anyone get neighborized by Imaginality btw?

me

[marcistar]

whats ur point? im kinda confused
we got it at the beginning of the last day phase and talked throughout that and the night.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

oh it's D6 lol
UNVOTE:

Will still wait for S&M.

Can you share what was in the hood?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I started this calorie counting thing recently (this is day 3 of it) and my body is still adjusting, not thinking as clearly as usual.

[Something_Smart]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to post any more after a little bit. I think it's best to leave my vote on nobody. I very much don't want to kill S&M; I think ssbm and marci should crossvote and S&M should decide, but if you guys want to petition the mod for an extension so I can provide more input you can.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do lean towards believing SS, btw. I just hate the assumptions being made. Even S&M's assumption mastina's flip

confirms

marci as town is wrong (though I townread her anyway)

for me, its down to 2 of gamma/something_smart/ssbm_kyouko

ssbm_kyouko by far seems the safest as im having doubt between gamma/something_smart right now.

i feel like i might be being dumb rn t_t being in this position is so hard

I have no clue. SS seemed to think he got an inno on you and that’s why he died, so probably cop, because no one has claimed it..

im thinking deeply of this tho, why wouldn't distance have just straight up claim the inno on me then..? cop only 1 shot, he has no reason to hide his action from us.

That’s definitely fake
But who’s the partner

Why does SS lie? You flip town, he’s next and no bus drivers or redirectors were available to bid on.

it's mylo today
so a fake guilty is what scum would want to try to pull off

How is it Mylo? And sorry but I don’t see why SS would lie here?

It's melo because we're down to 6 right?

S&M, marci, me, Gamma, SS, ssbm

If we elim wrong today, scum successfully NK ( they have hitman presumably so I can't block them, nor can a hypothetical town doc) and we're down to 4 players tomorrow and can't out-majority scum.

There is

only one scenario

we win if that's the case: both remaining townies are present at daystart and slam votes onto the same scum player before scum can both slam votes onto a townie. In that case we'd win the tiebreak at day end. Not impossible but not something we can take for granted either.

I'll probably end up on Marci anyways but I agree you shouldn't be voting as it means, if you vote town, that the scum can vote with you on that town and secure the win. Doctor is 100% dead (or scum) already, as only Flea, Distance, and Cupcake bids are unaccounted for from D1, so toDay is all we have

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I was Q+ing in another tab, must be cached or something idk, but those quotes were me reading Imaginality/Marci to see if their interactions change after Marci claims to have been neighborized and I think I believe she was neighborized by Imaginality that night.

[Gypyx]

votecount 6.0

Smoke and Mirrors (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (2) - Somke And Mirrors - Marcistar
Something_Smart (0)
marcistar (0)

not voting (2) - Something_Smart ssbm_Kyouko

day 6 ends in (expired on 2021-07-18 02:50:39)

i'm fine with granting an extension, i'm bad at timezones, but it looks like 2 more days are required?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

S&M was also pretty vehemently against the idea that the Kitty wagon was a bus and look what it turned out to be.

[marcistar]

Can you share what was in the hood?

sure

Spoiler:

said he had a townread on me and wanted to share his rb target without announcing in thread.

we talked about the mastina kill,
then [after something_smart outed his results] had a long chat about gamma and something_smart.

i originally trusted it instantly because the numbers did add up.

he showed what he was thinking during the night;
scum wouldve bid more on hitman if they could (other scum mustve bid 499+), he was wary of something_smarts claim because of this. though he knew there was a chance something_smart was truthful.

then i started having second guesses about gamma.

talked about gamma possibly being framed, i tried to figure out how gamma couldve been framed. i mentioned susing you around this time.

at this point he had reads something like
-he could see you being possible scum, but liked ur posts.
-thought smoke had bad posts, but would prob be town is gamma was scum
-something_smart could be bussing, but thats risky. felt like watcher wouldve been killed instead of mastina (if watcher was town).

i mentioned i thought of the possibility of something_smart bussing but thought they wouldve just faked a guilty on you instead.
mentioned how smokes posts at this point eased my worries about gamma. this is where i said gamma would prob be scum

the numbers to him seemed a bit planned i think, he said it felt too easy.

he talked about scum lying about bids, he mentioned something_smart and smoke in this post.

i asked if smoke wouldve bussed so early into a game.

he said he could see it, talked about how if he was partners with pooky he would've just told pooky to not post so that they could play the meta to their advantage.
mentioned how ^ is an outside possibility, at this point he said its more likely something_smart and you, ssbm_kyouko > or if hes wrong about gamma, it would be you and gamma.

i mentioned how gamma as town would've prob voted something_smart alot quicker, and mentioned how u didnt seem town based on ur play (d5).

he mentioned how someone used the "voting alot quicker" argument on him before > so it isnt certain.

he asked if its common that scum cant see the bids they hid, he thought if it wasnt common knowledge that this couldve been a scumtell on you (that you knew)

i mentioned how you pushed him not voting cupcake instantly
i asked if gamma did anything to help town, mentioned how something_smart has done more.
i mentioned how you felt like you were keeping options open + trying to please easier to convinced people.
mentioned how im the worst person to ask about what the common knowledge is.

he agreed gamma hasnt done much, if it werent for the watcher result and the hitman bid he wouldve voted gamma based on content.
he mentioned if its gamma, he thought remaining scum would try to get a miselim on him. he thought it wouldve been a big red flag of whoever that person is.

i mentioned how itll be easier if he isnt killed,
mentioned possibilty of if the remaining scum had a hitman they might leave him alone.

[gamma flips around this time]

he wanted to see if a something_smart roleblock will work, didnt think he could have hitman (scum reversing bids seemed too risky).
he said theres no use for scum to no kill in this scenario since that would give us an extra miselim chance.

he said it was most likely something_smart would be cleared, and one of me/smoke dies.

i mentioned how i dont think something_smart has hitman as well,
mentioned how i think ur (ssbm_kyouko) scum, and how i think ull try to get imaginality miselimed.

we talked about how sure i was on this read on you.

hopefully this is allowed..? ill cry if not lol-
hopefully its understandable who said what..?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

While it is risky to swap the claims, Watcher is a somewhat safe role to do it with. You can watch your scumpartner to see if they got AD'ed in the Night. If not, it is safe to swap claims.

In the case of scum!S_S:

Gamma buys Watcher for 500.
Gamma watches S_S and sees that nobody targeted him.
The following day, they swap their claims safely.
S_S bids 499 on Godfather
S_S busses Gamma the next day and buys Hitman to finish out the game.

I don't really think this is that plausible, but that is how it would work.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Yo read this scumgame where Gamma and Nancy were partners. Nancy is in the Mia and maya Fey hydra. This is like reading a clone of this game. Iso her with Gamma. Gamma even does the same little.face thing in that game (605 of the linked game) that he did on D1 in what was apparently a theater interaction as the two of them vote me for MO 364-371

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

In post 666 of that game, as scum, she literally uses the exact same excuse about how she pushed scum!bell into oblivion. Practically word for word. Compare to 653

1466-1467 is them discussing their partner
1917. I think this is koba

[ssbm_Kyouko]

They also work together on pushing moongrass in that game, similar to how they work together on me, Imaginality, and VFP in this one

[ssbm_Kyouko]

They also won that game so who's to say they wouldn't try a similar strat here? A third, lower activity scum partner that can be bussed for cred, then they just townblock up with each other and ride it to endgame.

VOTE: S&M

[Gypyx]

hopefully this is allowed..? ill cry if not lol-
hopefully its understandable who said what..?

it's allowed ye no worries

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can you share what was in the hood?

sure

Spoiler:

said he had a townread on me and wanted to share his rb target without announcing in thread.

we talked about the mastina kill,
then [after something_smart outed his results] had a long chat about gamma and something_smart.

i originally trusted it instantly because the numbers did add up.

he showed what he was thinking during the night;
scum wouldve bid more on hitman if they could (other scum mustve bid 499+), he was wary of something_smarts claim because of this. though he knew there was a chance something_smart was truthful.

then i started having second guesses about gamma.

talked about gamma possibly being framed, i tried to figure out how gamma couldve been framed. i mentioned susing you around this time.

at this point he had reads something like
-he could see you being possible scum, but liked ur posts.
-thought smoke had bad posts, but would prob be town is gamma was scum
-something_smart could be bussing, but thats risky. felt like watcher wouldve been killed instead of mastina (if watcher was town).

i mentioned i thought of the possibility of something_smart bussing but thought they wouldve just faked a guilty on you instead.
mentioned how smokes posts at this point eased my worries about gamma. this is where i said gamma would prob be scum

the numbers to him seemed a bit planned i think, he said it felt too easy.

he talked about scum lying about bids, he mentioned something_smart and smoke in this post.

i asked if smoke wouldve bussed so early into a game.

he said he could see it, talked about how if he was partners with pooky he would've just told pooky to not post so that they could play the meta to their advantage.
mentioned how ^ is an outside possibility, at this point he said its more likely something_smart and you, ssbm_kyouko >

#1 or if hes wrong about gamma, it would be you and gamma.

i mentioned how gamma as town would've prob voted something_smart alot quicker,

#2and mentioned how u didnt seem town based on ur play

(d5).

#3he mentioned how someone used the "voting alot quicker" argument on him before > so it isnt certain

.

#4he asked if its common that scum cant see the bids they hid

, he thought if it wasnt common knowledge that this couldve been a scumtell on you (that you knew)

i mentioned how you pushed him not voting cupcake instantly
i asked if gamma did anything to help town, mentioned how something_smart has done more.

#5i mentioned how you felt like you were keeping options open + trying to please easier to convinced people.

mentioned how im the worst person to ask about what the common knowledge is.

#6he agreed gamma hasnt done much, if it werent for the watcher result and the hitman bid he wouldve voted gamma based on content.
he mentioned if its gamma, he thought remaining scum would try to get a miselim on him. he thought it wouldve been a big red flag of whoever that person is

.

i mentioned how itll be easier if he isnt killed,
mentioned possibilty of if the remaining scum had a hitman they might leave him alone.

[gamma flips around this time]

he wanted to see if a something_smart roleblock will work, didnt think he could have hitman (scum reversing bids seemed too risky).
he said theres no use for scum to no kill in this scenario since that would give us an extra miselim chance.

he said it was most likely something_smart would be cleared, and one of me/smoke dies.

i mentioned how i dont think something_smart has hitman as well,

#7mentioned how i think ur (ssbm_kyouko) scum, and how i think ull try to get imaginality miselimed

.

we talked about how sure i was on this read on you.

hopefully this is allowed..? ill cry if not lol-
hopefully its understandable who said what..?

I have questions about the green parts that will come below the rest of this post. I numbered your quote to make it easier to point to the parts I'm asking about.

Alright S&M is just gone right now I guess. I don't think either Hydra head is posting elsewhere though. I think Distance was Inno'ing you, because I've been reading your Tallin ISO and mafia PT and I actually think that game is not convincingly different than this one. Not so much so that he would make a show of metadiving you and treating any pushes on you as a scumclaim.

I also think it would be risky for S_S and Gamma to flip the bids. In that case, they would be relying on Hitman to appear in the future, way back on D2. That's a long-haul game plan, but Gamma, when scum in the first iteration of this setup, talks in the PT about having a long plan. Maybe supporting me for MO and keeping me alive the whole time is to make me look like the partner. I'm going to have to convince you and possibly S&M that is not the case, or we're just going to lose.

I did have another thought about Misty last night regarding the D1 wagons and the replace though: Misty was trying to push VFP as an alternative to Kitty. Gamma was bussing Kitty. I tried to convince Gamma to not vote Kitty and vote VFP instead. Gamma had a chance to get off of Kitty that was being offered by the Town MO (me), and Gamma still did not come. I think scum!Misty that did not want Gamma to bus their partner may have been upset that Gamma didn't take that chance and may have not wanted to play with Gamma anymore. When Gamma replaces in, Misty asks if he's been reading. I am pretty sure I've heard Gamma state that when he replaces in as scum he reads the thread first and does not look at the PT because it makes his catchup look more natural. Misty asking this question might be a "*nudge*, check the PT." Add that to Misty's comments on "I think this can be won by poe" and "that's going to be my excuse anyways" do read to me like scum that is making an excuse. Add that to the replace-out, it just seems a little fishy to me. I'm not really going to be pursuing S_S though unless S&M can convince me they're town.

1. Did Imaginality provide any quotes or generalized reasoning for a partnership between me and Gamma? I'd like to address any that are resonating with you as he's no longer around to discuss with

2. Can you go into what doesn't seem town about my D5 or any other parts of the game? Again I'd like to address concerns

3. Can you provide context to this? I'm not sure what it's referring to.

4. In case you're still wondering, scum cannot see the redacted bid (I've read Gamma's scum PT from the first iteration of this setup). If scum wins the redacted bid, the player that wins it still sees how much they won it for and can tell the scumteam.

5. I'm definitely keeping options open. I'm fairly certain I'm the only person who actually pushed Gamma during this game for his content prior to the S_S guilty on him. Lots of other players were writing him off as town, notably S&M. I even state when I push him that I think nobody else is giving him the attention his slot deserves. Nobody else was keeping their options open enough to see he was scum. I've already posted some quotes but can post more in a dedicated post if you need, to showcase my pushing on Gamma and others' "passive" townreading of him.

6. Pretty sure this read of Imaginality's (voting him for his play before the guilty) comes from my push on Gamma. Although Gamma and S&M were hardpushing {VFP, Imaginality, Kyouko} POE for a lot of the game so Imaginality would probably be more likely to be paying close attention to Gamma.

Also looking at that POE^, I don't think it makes sense for me to be scum. Gamma was freely following S&M's vote on me when it came. I don't think bussing both of your teammates is a solid plan in this setup considering the resources. Also, if it were the plan to bus me after I used my resources, my enhances would have been completely different this game. Look at all the investigative power that got through, and how few scum roles got through. Yes, some made it in, but in later days when there are fewer total possibilities (X), a 1/X chance of rolling a scum power like 2-shot Hitman becomes more likely.

7. Why did you think I would try to get him miseliminated? I briefly flip-flopped end of D3 I think when CB was eliminated, I remember voting him so he would have to vote CB to self-preserve, and I SRed him on D1 some, but aside from those times, as I recall I thought he was actually trying to solve. I think he Cupcake and I have been the most active about solving in this game.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

The other "scum" she caught is Imaginality here.

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

You know what, this got me thinking and I have 0 of the good vibes I got from kyouko in mini 2213 rn
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I feel like a bastard for this but it’s making enough sense and S&M has earned my trust

This is the reasoning Gamma gives for voting me. Blatantly opportunistic, and I call it out in a bit in a wallpost with S&M. Then when I bring it up at a later time as a reason to SR Gamma outside of "your ISO looks like a sports caster filling dead air with a co-caster", Gamma gets defensive about it and shades me because I didn't bring it up right away, rather than addressing my concerns. S&M has also shown a pattern of discrediting me, shading me, and generally yelling louder than me instead of engaging me in actual discussion when I voice scumreads on them. Just the way Gamma does, only he doesn't do it as loudly because it isn't in his playstyle. I can link my scum games. This is not scum!me.

@Gamma Emerald
@Smoke and Mirrors
@cyrus62
@marcistar
@ssbm_Kyouko

Unless I've missed a post, none of you are currently voting.
Someone is going to get eliminated in less than a day (barring an extension or explicit no-elim votes getting plurality)

Currently there are by my count 3 votes on VFP, 2 on Something_Smart, and 1 on mastina.

1. Who do you want to see eliminated out of those three?
2. Vote for that person before end of day

If your answer to 1 is "someone else", vote for that person.
If your answer to 1 is "don't elim anyone today", vote for No Execute.

If you don't vote for someone else (or no execute) I shall assume tomorrow you're happy with VFP being eliminated.

I really don’t like how arm-twisty this is

I feel like if scum is on the kitty wagon it’s imaginality because their posting just feels inordinately scummy
And scrolling through the topic review in the preview window I’m not alone in feeling this

I can really see a possible Kitty/Kyuku/Imaginality team. I don’t think it’s at all townie how hard he’s been pushing this bus theory, it screams possible tmi to me, like scum maybe actually knew this.

If it is exactly Kitty/Kyuku/Imaginality,

@Mastina, will you nom me for paragon?

Gamma too.

Have I actually solved this game on D2? It would make sense because no scumteam who is aware of my meta is ever suicidal enough to try to push me here.

ATE to Mastina (will you nom me for paragon comment), and tossing Gamma in within her own "townblock" that is implied by how she appeals to mastina/Gamma. S&M also hard TRs S_S in this game and could be white knighting. If not, then they're alive still because they had 2 scum in their townblock. Nice "paragon" play

Definitely moment of brilliance at least
(I’m not sure which head is posting)

Not sure if this is scum!Gamma trolling S&M or trolling the rest of town by openly gloating with his partner in preparation to quote in endgame about how they were so brilliant for buddying the MO and then mislimming them on D2. Reads like the open gloating to me but I can see it either way. Obviously Gamma is trolling now that we've seen him flip.

Have I actually caught 2 scum? That would be amazing. But it’s so freaking obvious that scum was trying to set us up that either Kyuku is the worst scumhunter in mafia history or he actually is scum. Rn, I’m leaning to yes.

You know what, this got me thinking and I have 0 of the good vibes I got from kyouko in mini 2213 rn
VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I feel like a bastard for this but it’s making enough sense and S&M has earned my trust

I was leaning town on them until he brought up that Flea post. That screamed blatant scum frame up to me and I think Distance is very obviously town.

And the way Kyuku said if we flip green, he’s going to push Distance to push his bussing theory, That was the first thing that pinged me. Kyuku is very obviously trying to chain miselims on us and Distance.

This could be part of the motive for the Distance kill. Show the town that one of the players I thought was bussing was actually town, to discredit the bussing theory (which turned out to be correct). Another Distance motive for S_S is to call out the cop crumb to gain marci's trust, but he didn't need it. Marci had given him a free pass already writing off his replace-in as needing more time, becasue she would feel bad eliminating him right after that. Marci is not a threat to scum!S_S, so there is no need to buddy her.

Definitely moment of brilliance at least
(I’m not sure which head is posting)

Nancy. All of the posts but the first are mine.

Scum looked at Flea’s post, killed fae and decided to frame me and then they were planning to miselim Distance. Scum doesn’t realize I’m really smart and can see through this crap and didn’t really care for Imaginality questioning me either and there is absolutely not a damn thing scummy about Distance calling himself obvtown.

S&M doesn't mention that Gamma called them obvtown after the flip in 440. And they definitely saw it because they replied to my post which quotes 440 in their own 610. I would think that as town, you would be wary of scum doing something like this, and at least make a comment to address that Gamma is also not scummy. But S&M is probably already preparing to NK Distance tonight to shade me for pushing Distance as a busser, and is making posts that will gain them towncred later.

This post took a very long time to write on my phone. Please take the time to read it :/

Starting at 565, rereading S&M's ISO as they have accused me of acting in bad faith/ignoring their question:

In 610 you indicate I egregiously misunderstood you - what was it that I was misunderstanding? Could you clear that up for me?

639: this is the second time you've indicated I will eventually sr Imaginality and Gamma and ftr I'd already 180ed on Imaginality toward EoD1, and I believe neither of their votes on Kitty were a bus, and they dont have the same partner associations you and distance have with Kitty. I don't like their vote on me right now but they're generally bad at reading me from what I remember. Gamma will remember in 2213 how I, as a widely TRed townie, believed so strongly that he was town that I faked a guilty on another player who turned out to be town. I was right about Gamma then and I feel just as certain about VFP here. He is not dying toDay. I don't wk as scum.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

642 this is the first non-rhetorical question I've seen you post that I didn't already respond to, and even it borderlines on rhetorical. I do think there is a world where I am wrong about both you and Distance. I do not think we are in it, but I would bet the game on VFP being town here.

I am passing the MO to VFP as of right now.

643 here is where you provided a dissatisfactory answer to my question. I was asking specifically what you thought about the reasoning I provided at the time that I voted VFP at end of day 1? As a reminder/tldr, my reasoning was that Kitty seemed like the "default" plurality lim that was being slipped through by scum and that if scum wanted to lim Kitty, it made sense to me to lim anyone besides him. I saw Misty, who I was townreading at the time, voted VFP, a player I had an early scumread on, who I thought Gamma, another TR of mine, might be willing to vote. I then voted VFP and appealed to Gamma for assistance in eliminating VFP.

does any of my reasoning sound scummy to you? If so, please be specific. I believe you intentionally misinterpreted the intent of my question and avoided providing a complete answer. This was the original reason you cited for pushing me today and it is very important that you explain your reasoning, because as it stands your push appears to have been in bad faith.

652 here you ask if it is possible I was misunderstanding you. I interpreted from 565 where you originally shade me that you wanted town me to vote VFP, because In that post, you quote my vote count of the players on the VFP wagon as evidence. I think you were frustrated that I had lost interest in voting VFP after seeing the Kitty flip. This is unusual because VFP was counter to scum, so why would i want to vote him after that? And dont say I'm not voting him today for towncred, as i obviously dont need it, as is evidenced by the MO vote on D1.

I'll post the full quote for this one as there are embedded quotes that matter here and it's easier this way.

Having issues reading into people here. VFP and Flea are town though and it would take a lot to convince me they are scum. Marci is decent too.

Smoke and Distance are two of my SRs at this point in the game.

VOTE: kitty

Good vote and I really don’t understand the sr on you either. I don’t have a strong read on you yet but it looks like you’ve been genuinely sorting.

I still do think this. Have you critically examined his ISO? I’m referring to his other reads and don’t understand why town!you are myopically only focused on Kitty?

I explained why I tr him and it had absolutely nothing to do with Kitty. Re-read my ISO because you seem to be ignoring any of my posts that don’t seem to fit your narrative.

I have critically examined Distance's ISO. I believe there are associations there that point to a team with you and Kitty. I do not believe there was evidence of genuine sorting as of post 347 which is where you cited that you TR him for genuine sorting. His other reads were by and large, shallow or unexplained townreads that are easily faked as scum. There is nothing that indicates to me that he was scumhunting as of 347.

I have now reread your iso from 565 to this post I quoted and I dont believe I ignored any of your posts that "dont fit my narrative." If such posts exist, please quote them for everyone to see, so you can actually provide evidence to support at least one bit of shade you're casting on me.

664 sorry if I'm making you feel personally attacked - whether you're scum or not - I don't see another reason for you to bring this up, but please try to look out for bolded text if you can. If I weren't phone posting almost all the time I would color code or something to try to make my posts more clear for you.

714 if it has to be someone off the wagon, I'm not really sure. Obviously I'm tunneled.right now but I would have to reread d2 and see. Gut instinct, if the Kitty wagon was pure, Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus. I'm still suspicious about him being around at deadline on d1. I think he was looking to buy hitman for 425. Its possible scum!cyrus thought Roleblocker but I doubt it. If it just has to be someone off of the wagon then maybe mastina gets thrown in too because I'm having a hard time.reading her D1 and was somewhat relying on other players like yourself to let me know if I should be worried about her right now (on D1). Was saving her to sort for later but as i see her as a possible alternative partner to scum!you, or potentially using town!you as a beard, I'd probably want to look at her the closest. Problem is I dont have time to do any of that with the deadline incoming. Its 2 am here...

716 which head posted this? If it was nancy not pooky, why didn't you quote this before when I asked about Flea crumbing/claiming cop bid?

717 which question are you referring to? I think it's in bad faith to not let me know which question in this post. I did you that courtesy several times because I really care about getting a complete answer to a very specific question. You're not helping me to TR you if you are town, and I really am and have been trying.

719 while this may come from frustrated town, for that very reason it is also an excusable way for scum to dismiss my push: "I’m not sure I even care about parsing you if you’re going to be this bad."

However, you bringing up this quote is making lean to you’re not being town, why? Because if you use your brain, it’s pretty damned obvious that scum is trying to set us up and if you’re scum with Kitty, you referencing that quote makes perfect sense.

First of all, it is not obvious to me, so could you explain? Second, saying "if you're scum with kitty" kind of feels like something you only say if you know kitty has different partners, since kitty is already flipped. Maybe that's just tunnel vision though. The verbiage is weird to me.

722 if it is so blatantly obviously a shitpush, then why are you not providing any evidence to refute my points? Why are you instead resorting to discrediting me if, by your own admission, it is obvious what is wrong with my push? This is not how town behaves.

724 I have made every effort to be transparent in my push on you and you have resorted to discrediting me the entire time. It is laughable that you would accuse me of acting in bad faith when all of the evidence points to the contrary.

727
I get that you would notice it because it was directed at you. What was unusual was that you happened to remember it. It seems like such a minor detail to be concerned about as town, but it makes sense for scum to keep track of it.

The rest of the posts I'll respond to individually.

Because I find it inconceivable that anyone would seriously think that I A) read that post, acknowledged it and referenced it and still B) would do that if I killed Flea. It would be like I’m trying to set myself up the next day and that’s why it read like a possible frame up to me, like scum saw that post Flea made and killed fae to frame me.

I think that’s what very likely happened and since you were the one who pointed it out and have been tunnelling me despite catching Kitty, it looked like it was you. I don’t feel personally attacked though but it’s extremely hard for me to not see it as a shitpush. I don’t think Distance is scum, so I honestly don’t get that read either. When Kitty made all of those reads, he didn’t know he was getting elimed, that’s why I think he’s spewed town. I think Kitty was in antispew and every name he did reference was town.

I asked you who do you think is scum off Kitty wagon because if I’m wrong about you, then that’s where I believe scum most likely are.

I just felt like you aren’t really trying to sort me.

Gamma’s town sheeping me I think.

Well, I know I’m town and yes I’m aware that doesn’t mean anything AI, so I obviously know that there aren’t any associatives between my slot and anyone. This isn’t how I play scum but you obviously wouldn’t know that.

How much time left?

Cyrus, CB, Marci, or S_S, most likely CB or Cyrus

I see you did answer. I don’t think Marci. I liked her posting. I hard tr Misty and SS hasn’t done anything to ping me. It’s a toss up with CB. This isn’t typically how they play either town or scum. Maybe take another look at Cyrus?

He had this strange post claiming I said things I know I didn’t, so maybe I shouldn’t have been so quick to tr the no execute?

UNVOTE:

for now.

Note what I bolded in the internalized quote 760 here about Gamma. I identified back then that their vote on me was absolutely bullshit and left a bolded legacy for town, if I flip, go back to 2213 and look at how town!Gamma treated me there versus here. S&M's only response to that is that "Gamma's town sheeping me I think." - no critical examination of the vote, no concern whatsoever that Gamma could be voting in an opportunistic way, even when I point it out directly.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Who do you think Kyouko’s partner is?

I also didn't want to out this earlier because I didn't want Gamma to know about this tell, but this is a post that tipped me off to Gamma. This is the type of thing that scum says about town that they don't want to flip to discourage other town from voting them, and knowing I'm town, and already suspecting he was scum, tipped the scales for me. Looking back on this now, I realize it's because I was being saved for LimLo's mislim. This makes sense because VFP and mastina were killed back to back. Yes mastina was tracker, but once VFP flipped, mastina's actual scumhunting effort would have to be redirected, possibly onto Gamma. S&M may have been worried mastina would turn on Gamma and that she would bea able to tell if S&M tried to dissuade her from pushing Gamma.

If Gamma doesnt move off of me and I end up eliminated today, I urge you all to review 2213 and seriously consider Gamma's reasoning for voting me.

is this what you mean by the thing you posted in your wall earlier?
Why does it not feel like you cared to do anything about this until now?

And this is the post where Gamma doesn't address my concerns about his vote. He provides no reasoning and instead shades me with a leading question.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh and to follow up on it making sense to save me for LimLo: My pushes after D1 were on both S&M and Gamma. If I flipped before LimLo and they were both around in LimLo, it would have looked pretty bad the way they were pushing me, especially to Imaginality/VFP (who may be alive if I were mislimmed or NKed) who were in their POE as well.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

S&M was also pretty vehemently against the idea that the Kitty wagon was a bus and look what it turned out to be.

Yes, because - unlike you - actually didn’t know Gamma was scum. I also didn’t try to save my buddy Kitty and try to lim town.

I’ve caught you. Gamma would never have pushed so hard for me to vote you for MO, if you weren’t his buddy.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Gamma and VFP both bid these amounts today the scumteam can no longer outbid everyone for the daykill.

This means gamma isn't scum

with

VFP.

Same would apply to the VFP-me scum pairing some people have been mooting. Or me-Gamma for that matter.

S&M, does ssbm's point change your views on me and/or VFP?

The fact that I misunderstood your 90 bid, means you weren’t being hypocritical about wanting town to bid high.

If it isn’t you/VFP than someone has been pocketing me really really good.

Here S&M points out that they are concerned that they have been pocketed if it's not VFP or Imaginality. This could be preparing to inno Gamma with tracker, and if anyone questioned S&M on the Gamma track they could say Gamma might have been pocketing them so they wanted to check him. It makes sense from a town perspective to try to use tracker to catch the more townread one of the scumteam, because if scum knows S&M won tracker by doing the math on AD plus Tracker, they know to send the scum that is in the trackers TRs to do the kill. That would be a town!S&M reasoning that scum!S&M could use to justify the targeting.

I don't understand it.
I was just going to say that SSBM is most likely town, but if they picked the 4 roles then that's a townlock.

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

I get to enhance 4 roles which makes them 400% more likely (I think this means 5x as likely but the setup may be worded incorrectly) to appear. I enhanced the 1-shot BP and also enhanced the 3 2-shot roles that appeared today. The 1-shot AD came in with it's normal chance, but I wanted it for tomorrow because it only.gives the most recent day of history. Both ADs the same day means unless the winner holds on to a shot they'll be looking at who bought the other AD potentially which is a but of a waste imo. Thought they'd be better staggered because then the second shot would line up with the 1-shot and we'd have 2 detectives looking at toMorrows bids when the player pool is reduced more

Ah, got it.
Thats for confirming. I actually thought by enhance you made it better.

Regardless I think the 4 we got are really strong for this early in the game.

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I keep going back and forth on this. I want to be super confident on a VFP scumflip but I just can’t. But if Gamma’s right and you actually are Vedith, then we’ve definitely played together before Happy Face.

I just don’t see why Marci kills Distance and who of my trs I could possibly be reading wrong. I guess it’s possible CB could be pocketing me? He did give me that tr pretty fast but he’s not really being scummy either. I’ve seen his scumgame and it didn’t look anything like this.

No concern that Gamma could be pocketing them here. Hmm

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500? Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

I think if there had been a kill that S&M would have claimed they tracked Gamma if you catch my drift. That's why Gamma made a show of buying a role that cant go anywhere.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to post any more after a little bit. I think it's best to leave my vote on nobody. I very much don't want to kill S&M; I think ssbm and marci should crossvote and S&M should decide, but if you guys want to petition the mod for an extension so I can provide more input you can.

SS, I honestly don’t think it’s Marci and if we lim her we could lose. Why does Gamma push so hard for me to vote Kyouku for MO, if he’s not her buddy?

Kyouku’s behaviour isn’t town. She’s been trying to frame me since D1 and I think your theory about Distance getting an inno on Marci is probably correct and the reason he died.

I bet the game on Kyouku!scum. Kyouku blatantly lied about us having hitman and she makes that post out of the blue, claiming that she actually had it, because she probably switched her kill target from you to Imaginality.

Also Gamma and Kyouku were clearly distancing and Gamma only started to push me once I put the kibbosh on a you/Kyouku scum team.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

If Gamma and VFP both bid these amounts today the scumteam can no longer outbid everyone for the daykill.

This means gamma isn't scum

with

VFP.

Same would apply to the VFP-me scum pairing some people have been mooting. Or me-Gamma for that matter.

S&M, does ssbm's point change your views on me and/or VFP?

The fact that I misunderstood your 90 bid, means you weren’t being hypocritical about wanting town to bid high.

If it isn’t you/VFP than someone has been pocketing me really really good.

Here S&M points out that they are concerned that they have been pocketed if it's not VFP or Imaginality. This could be preparing to inno Gamma with tracker, and if anyone questioned S&M on the Gamma track they could say Gamma might have been pocketing them so they wanted to check him. It makes sense from a town perspective to try to use tracker to catch the more townread one of the scumteam, because if scum knows S&M won tracker by doing the math on AD plus Tracker, they know to send the scum that is in the trackers TRs to do the kill. That would be a town!S&M reasoning that scum!S&M could use to justify the targeting.

I don't understand it.
I was just going to say that SSBM is most likely town, but if they picked the 4 roles then that's a townlock.

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

I get to enhance 4 roles which makes them 400% more likely (I think this means 5x as likely but the setup may be worded incorrectly) to appear. I enhanced the 1-shot BP and also enhanced the 3 2-shot roles that appeared today. The 1-shot AD came in with it's normal chance, but I wanted it for tomorrow because it only.gives the most recent day of history. Both ADs the same day means unless the winner holds on to a shot they'll be looking at who bought the other AD potentially which is a but of a waste imo. Thought they'd be better staggered because then the second shot would line up with the 1-shot and we'd have 2 detectives looking at toMorrows bids when the player pool is reduced more

Ah, got it.
Thats for confirming. I actually thought by enhance you made it better.

Regardless I think the 4 we got are really strong for this early in the game.

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I keep going back and forth on this. I want to be super confident on a VFP scumflip but I just can’t. But if Gamma’s right and you actually are Vedith, then we’ve definitely played together before Happy Face.

I just don’t see why Marci kills Distance and who of my trs I could possibly be reading wrong. I guess it’s possible CB could be pocketing me? He did give me that tr pretty fast but he’s not really being scummy either. I’ve seen his scumgame and it didn’t look anything like this.

No concern that Gamma could be pocketing them here. Hmm

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500? Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

I think if there had been a kill that S&M would have claimed they tracked Gamma if you catch my drift. That's why Gamma made a show of buying a role that cant go anywhere.

You’ve got serious chutzpah, I’ll give you that. Why tf would scum!us track a buddy? Please just continue to drive it home that your the last scum. You don’t even need my help.

We tracked YOU. Mod said you didn’t go anywhere but when I asked him if that held up if you visited Marci, he then told me it was essentially meaningless but don’t let me stop you from continuing to insult everyone’s intelligence

. lololol