Newbie 2072: All Guns Blazing!! - Ended

[Pavowski]

Peace was never an option

[alstroemerial]

On mobile so I can’t quote, but I’m having trouble reconciling Shrek’s post about limming one of Luke or Val “for safety” with the earlier post of thinking it’s TvT. What’s up with that?

[Lukewarm]

On mobile so I can’t quote, but I’m having trouble reconciling Shrek’s post about limming one of Luke or Val “for safety” with the earlier post of thinking it’s TvT. What’s up with that?

I have my own thoughts that lie in a similar vein to that, but I will let shrek answer for themselves before I weigh in

[Shrek]

i dont want to necessarily lim one of them today but assuming later on in the game both of them are still alive i wouldnt be comfortable with keeping them both. there are reasons as to why their feud came off as tvt (both of them tunneling each other), but that's just the reason i perceive the feud as something along those lines rather than actively saying 'both luke and val are confirmed town' from that. like realistically if luke is town he wouldnt self vote right? doing that is inherently detrimental to the town as a whole. then on the flip side val was way too defensive about his previous statements in an attempt to paint them as not serious. like i said no lim today but maybe later its something to consider if theyre both still alive

[Lukewarm]

That was not the reason I was thinking

[alstroemerial]

Blurgh

Keeping my vote where it is as my V/LA starts because I haven’t seen anything in the last 24 hours that makes me think anything is better than the Portia/Shrek slot. I should be able to get online a bit tomorrow morning but from there it’ll get a little dicier in terms of being able to be sure of times.

[ArcAngel9]

VOTE: The Ogre

This vote is not accounted, i didn't find the title match to any living players.

A quick reminder about the voting rules.

Voting Rules

27) For your vote to be counted, it must be bolded or in vote tags, like so: VOTE: ArcAngel or VOTE: ArcAngel9 If It looks like a vote it will be counted.
28) Unvotewhen switching votes aren't necessary, but will be appreciated.
29) Keep all your votes in a new line, don't mix them in conversations or in statements.
30)Please refrain from engaging in any kind of voting trickery. If you try to abuse 29th rule (EX: Intentionally mixing your votes in sentences to test players in the game. This calls for disciplinary action).

Please don't make do those tough actions, have fun and enjoy your game!

[ArcAngel9]

Vote Count 1-12

Shrek:

alstroemerial, Umlaut

Pavowski :

alstroemerial :

Zyla :

Lukewarm :

Val89,

Val89 :

,

Not_Mafia :

Lukewarm, Shrek

Umlaut :

Not_Mafia, Zyla

marcistar :

Not Voting

: marcistar, Pavowski

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: July 16, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-07-18 12:50:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Val89]

I know this isn't the most oppotune time in the world, but I am hosting guests this weekend, and while I'll try and keep an eye on proceedings from my mobile, I can't promise I'll be around.

@Mod: I'll be on V/LA until sometime Sunday evening BST.

Before I go; an explanation as to why I am not moving my vote. TL;DR: Lukewarm is obvious scum, and he ought to be the lim today 100%. There is no justifcation in my eyes for flipping anyone other than Lukewarm today, and I won't be assisting in doing so.

The case for scum!Luke, as breifly as I can:

Spoiler: He's been caught doing some obviously shady stuff

I know you guys have had enough of Me v Lukewarm, and you've just seen post after post and decided it's TvT for the pure single-mindedness of it without actually drilling down and evaluating the case, so, if you don't want to take my word for it; take someone elses. Luke never addressed this apart from to say my post was 'dense and hard to read' but as Pav pointed out, what he had cut had changed the whole tone of the post. It was then quietly dropped.

Unforunately, that's the one case it's actually come to light because I literally had to beg for someone to do the work and give step by step instructions on how to get there. It wasn't the only time. If you want more, and you actually do find yourself with the motivation to actually evaulate the thread rather than writing it off as TvT (which is actually what Luke and partner want you to do, by the way, so when it comes clear I'm not scum, they can just be like "oh, Luke didn't know, he was TvT, let him live" - so look closely at the people pushing that narrative); you might want to check out the spoilered side conversations, the misrepresentation of my positions (eg: 513), the 'flailing scum' tell, and the 'please look at these specific number of val's posts' (403 - count back them yourself if you don't beleive me.

Spoiler: The piviot to Not_mafia

Lukewarm has recently been making a case for limming Not_mafia. It appears to be based largely around what he considers to be a different 'tone' to small number of posts NM has made, particulary 436; but while he made a big song and dance about the 'tone' of a 7 word post, he never addresses the

content

of that post - Why? Because Not_mafia's actual input into this game has been a bloody good point, and Lukewarm has wanted us to focus on

how

not_mafia said what he did, not what he said - that Lukewarm doing what he has been and scaring off town sorting our two slots is a good outcome for a scum!Luke.

Spoiler: A good outcome for scum!Luke

And it certainly has been a good outcome, so much that he ignored addressing the point and just continued to do what he was doing. For a very recent example, compare his response to 595, and the response to 601. I think the intent of my question was to help identify the wierdness Alstro then picked up, and lukes response was "I'll let him answer". My response in 597 might have been short, but it was because Luke did exactly what I expected him to do and was waiting for, and I wanted to shut it down sharpish. He was hoping I would debate him and we would end up with another page 20 (be honest, how many of you actually read that page, or just quickly scrolled through it because you saw our avatars going back and forth?). Once it was clear that wasn't happening, and someone else made the same point, then he wanted to pick up towncred for seeing the same thing and 'let Shrek answer'. Then why did he answer for him when I made the same point, 'joke' (or rather LAMIST) or not?

Like I said, I'll be trying to keep up with the thread as I can on my mobile, and I hope I'll be able to take a few moments away from my guests to weigh in again at least once before the hammer falls on somebody; but if that somebody is anyone other than Lukewarm, I think you will be making a big mistake.

[Pavowski]

I'm about to be on an overnight trip. Won't declare v/la because I'll still be reading on mobile, I just won't be able to post at length, but here's where I'm at in the meantime:

On the one hand, I don't want to lim either Luke or Val because I think they're both good sources of info in this game, town or no

On the other hand, this feels like something we're going to have to sort out sooner or later, and if one of them is right, it's a big help to the game

Portia's slot had become one of my top susses but, what can I say, I feel some kind of way about voting Shrek the moment he lands in the game, and he's at least pulled the slot back toward neutral a bit

I'm still open to other possibilities but I think for now VOTE: Lukewarm is where I want to go

[Zyla]

Ok, I'm getting slightly annoyed at this point, especially with his past two posts
VOTE: Not Mafia
I have no way of telling if he's scum or town, because he seems to be refusing to actually participate in the game. He's thrown a couple of votes around, but refused to actually say why, and he doesn't seem to want to change that any time soon.

[Not_Mafia]

I'm town, you can take my word for it

[alstroemerial]

Vote Count 1-12

Shrek:

alstroemerial, Umlaut

Pavowski :

alstroemerial :

Zyla :

Lukewarm :

Val89,

Val89 :

,

Not_Mafia :

Lukewarm, Shrek

Umlaut :

Not_Mafia, Zyla

marcistar :

Not Voting

: marcistar, Pavowski

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Deadline: July 16, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-07-18 12:50:00)

Mod Notes:

-

Hey @Mod, just to confirm the deadline, is it the end of the 17th now with the extension?

[alstroemerial]

One more food for thought to encourage people to vote for the Shrek/Portia slot: I know it sucks to replace in and get eliminated quickly, but that shouldn't be a reason to deter town from voting if they think they've found scum. We have to play to win. Portia was prickly at suspicion, avoidant of actual questions, and flying under the radar until eventually disappearing altogether. Shrek has been a little better but I'm not satisfied with the explanation given in 603 -- this conversation seems so full of hedging without putting a solid stance down, in order to avoid getting held accountable for something later. If it's Not_Mafia or a no elim, I'll help make an elim happen, but if we have some time left I would really ask people to consider this.

[Umlaut]

^ agree

[Shrek]

im fine with being miselimmed if it means that itll help people narrow their poe down when it comes to a more pressing situation where they need to focus specifically on the alignments. i would heavily recommend against it though because of a couple reasons:

1. im town. miselimming me, even if its more favorable than one of the other prevailing wagons, means that two townies are dead and itll be down to 5v2. also not attempting to preserve myself is a big no no in the first place
2. even if having a more narrow process of elimination due to the sus people being eliminated down the line is an objectively good thing, i still give out a lot more information than someone like, say, n_m and will continue to do so as the game progresses. youve already got my claim and my input on things. even if i am hedging the more information the better, since thats a big chunk of what decisions should be rationalized with. right now my vote is staying on n_m though because i want him to contribute more than a few words whenever hes mentioned

[Shrek]

also you shouldnt let me replacing in deter you from voting for me if you really think i am scum. im personally fine with it because i dont take these games too seriously in the first place. i dont get salty very easily at all and youll find im really chill when it comes to this stuff. so if you are hesitant because i replaced in then know im totally cool with you making the decision you think is best

[marcistar]

shrek do u think not_mafias scum or r u just voting him to get out the unhelpful person?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: shrek

[alstroemerial]

@Everyone -- if I vote for anyone other then Val before the end of Day 1, please take that as a scum claim, and hammer me with impunity

Just to make it clear to the thread, I think that at this point

I, Lukewarm,

would be a better elim then : Zyla, Pva, and Umlaut.

If you don't want to follow me onto a Not_Mafia vote, then feel free to follow Val onto a Luke Vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: shrek

[Lukewarm]

Shrek's iso feels like someone trying to stay alive, while also trying to give off the appearance of not trying to stay alive. High claims of read apptitude:

because im an incredible gamer who should be eliminated asap if the mafia want to win. #1 scumhunter in the making yo

But has provided zero reads on any of these slots: Zyla, Pav, Alstro, Marci, Umlaut

Like go to their iso, and control+f and search for any of those names, they are never mentioned, short of greeting Zyla and Pav.

Even their take on me v Val required someone to ask them.

[Lukewarm]

@Everyone -- if I vote for anyone other then Val before the end of Day 1, please take that as a scum claim, and hammer me with impunity

Just to make it clear to the thread, I think that at this point

I, Lukewarm,

would be a better elim then : Zyla, Pva, and Umlaut.

If you don't want to follow me onto a Not_Mafia vote, then feel free to follow Val onto a Luke Vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: shrek

Been there, done that, had that conversation <3

[alstroemerial]

Have no actual interest in a Luke lim just thought it was funny

[Umlaut]

@Everyone -- if I vote for anyone other then Val before the end of Day 1, please take that as a scum claim, and hammer me with impunity

Just to make it clear to the thread, I think that at this point

I, Lukewarm,

would be a better elim then : Zyla, Pva, and Umlaut.

If you don't want to follow me onto a Not_Mafia vote, then feel free to follow Val onto a Luke Vote

VOTE: Not_Mafia

VOTE: shrek

I'm glad you followed up saying this isn't making you want a Luke lim because I was just about to say, I get the react but what do you actually make of this? Do you think "promise I will only vote for A all day or else I'm scum, and then vote for B and C instead" is a likely scum move?

[alstroemerial]

No, I think that level of tunneling to the point of risking a no-lim if we can't figure something out is anti-town if not outright scummy. I once read someone comment, and I think it's true, that some level of inconsistency like the above is more townie actually because it shows there isn't the sort of insecurity that scum tends to have of leaving an ideal paper trail to look back on later.