Newbie 2073: Parfait (Over)

[Roden]

While this is technically true, it feels as though your content is aimed at discussing anything other than the game itself, and for page 2, that's fine enough for my vote.

I like going off topic during RVS.
It's sort of like the breakout rooms in Zoom school. Whenever you're in a breakout room with your friends, you never discuss the topic you're supposed to discuss.

The problem isn't that you are not particularly suspicious for doing so, but that being off topic damages town.
You can provide input to the game and still add to those conversations at the same time if you wish. But only going into those only benefits scum.
If you (GeneralWu) could go into your thoughts on the game at hand that would be great.

Quick question so I can gauge you better. How much experience do you have with Mafia?

[Save The Dragons]

Right now my only input is that catboi seems to be trying pretty hard, so he's a bit towny.
So is meg.

how much effort is considered trying?

[GeneralWu]

Right now my only input is that catboi seems to be trying pretty hard, so he's a bit towny.
So is meg.

how much effort is considered trying?

I think they're trying hard because they're doing their best to make reads even though there aren't many posts. When there aren't many posts, making reads like that is considered trying in my opinion.

[MegAzumarill]

I have had a lot of experience with mafia, but mostly in real-time formats. A lot of what applies to there doesn't apply here. (the games are played in a much different way.)
Although I do have some experience with the rolelists used on this site from another site that used some of the same rolelists, this kind of forum game is new.
Conclusion: I am going to mess up everything rather than be confused.
It's the perfect storm of thinking I know what I am doing and getting everything wrong.

[GeneralWu]

Mafia is the hardest game I've ever played next to StarCraft, but it's not insanely hard. There are plenty of people who actually win amazingly in their first games.

[T3]

Everyone's talking about their past games and I'm over here like "this is my second game ever" lol

Tbh the RVS stage seems practically designed to throw people off-track, so imma reserve judgement for when there's more to go on.

I will say that T3 gives me weird vibes that I can't quite explain, but I dunno if I'd outright call him scum.

The only other person I've really taken notice of is Val but since he's VLA I'll have to wait til he comes back to look more into.

That's normal for T3, or at least NAI.

navigatorv locktown lol

To elaborate, I think newbie vibereads usually come from town.

Idk if you should locktown them quite yet, they're new but not brand new. If anything I think you'd draw the attention of newbscum, since your posts might make you look like easy mis-elim bait.

That's fair. It was more the specific reasoning for townreading me.

[T3]

Right now my only input is that catboi seems to be trying pretty hard, so he's a bit towny.
So is meg.

how much effort is considered trying?

To me that read felt kind offaked but I can't really articulate why.

[Roden]

I have had a lot of experience with mafia, but mostly in real-time formats. A lot of what applies to there doesn't apply here. (the games are played in a much different way.)
Although I do have some experience with the rolelists used on this site from another site that used some of the same rolelists, this kind of forum game is new.
Conclusion: I am going to mess up everything rather than be confused.
It's the perfect storm of thinking I know what I am doing and getting everything wrong.

Ok, this is actually the exact vibe I was getting from you. A sort of experienced mindset but not nuanced to this style yet. It's pretty much how I played my first game here lol. Don't worry too much about messing up, think of this game more as a baseline of what to expect going forward.

Main reason I was asking though was because I wasn't sure if you knew the meta here yet. RVS is pretty slow here, so most people give very little reason for swapping votes around and joke post for the first few pages. What usually happens is someone eventually says something off or scummy, and then gets pounced on by a more aggressive player. That or scum makes an "innocent" RVS vote that puts someone at E-2 and officially gets a wagon going.

[Roden]

That's fair. It was more the specific reasoning for townreading me.

Did they town read you? It seemed more like they wanted to scum read you off of the vibes they got, but didn't want to commit to an accusation so early into the game.

[GeneralWu]

This has nothing to do with the game; but for the people with anime avatars, what are the names of the characters in your avatars? I'm really curious.

[GeneralWu]

I also think T3, Roden, and navigator are trying hard and that's making them seem towny.

[T3]

That's fair. It was more the specific reasoning for townreading me.

Did they town read you? It seemed more like they wanted to scum read you off of the vibes they got, but didn't want to commit to an accusation so early into the game.

Mb, I meant scumreading me. I think it's hard for newbie scum or even relatively new scum to fake genuine emotional reactions to posts.

[T3]

Day 1 lims are usually worse than random in newbies. If scum gets limmed day 1 there's some hard bussing going on.

[T3]

I get bad vibes from Riden but that might be confbiasing on paranoia because I just lost to scum him.

[T3]

VOTE: GeneralWu
His posts seem very fake helpful. He townreads me, nav, and Roden for putting in effot but won't elaborate further on that. His reads sem lazy because they look more based on postcount than actual content.

[GeneralWu]

Day 1 lims are usually worse than random in newbies. If scum gets limmed day 1 there's some hard bussing going on.

I disagree. If scum gets zgrynibysed* day 1, it's very hard for scum to win.

*zgrynibysed means eliminated.

[GeneralWu]

Day 1 lims are usually worse than random in newbies. If scum gets limmed day 1 there's some hard bussing going on.

I disagree. If scum gets zgrynibysed* day 1, it's very hard for scum to win.

*zgrynibysed means eliminated.

It's pretty unlikely for one scum to push his partner so hard day 1 that the partner dies for this reason.

[GeneralWu]

VOTE: GeneralWu
His posts seem very fake helpful. He townreads me, nav, and Roden for putting in effot but won't elaborate further on that. His reads sem lazy because they look more based on postcount than actual content.

I just think you guys are trying your best to find scum early in the game even when there isn't much going on, and that's towny.

[Roden]

That's fair. It was more the specific reasoning for townreading me.

Did they town read you? It seemed more like they wanted to scum read you off of the vibes they got, but didn't want to commit to an accusation so early into the game.

Mb, I meant scumreading me. I think it's hard for newbie scum or even relatively new scum to fake genuine emotional reactions to posts.

That's a fair point honestly. My AtE posts tend to ping people when I'm scum, so you're not wrong.

I get bad vibes from Riden but that might be confbiasing on paranoia because I just lost to scum him.

Lmao, this is also fair. I'm honestly really glad I got town this time around because I don't have the energy to attempt another scum game after that last one.

Day 1 lims are usually worse than random in newbies. If scum gets limmed day 1 there's some hard bussing going on.

I disagree. If scum gets zgrynibysed* day 1, it's very hard for scum to win.

*zgrynibysed means eliminated.

It's pretty unlikely for one scum to push his partner so hard day 1 that the partner dies for this reason.

I literally just won a scum game doing exactly that lol. I fully expect to get policy elim'd if scum gets voted out Day 1 again.

[navigatorv]

Now that there's been a bit more discussion and I'm not trying to hurry and post before my break ends, I think I wanna give a bit more of a detailed breakdown of what I'm thinking rn.

T3 still gives me weird vibes, but I think that might be because he reminds me of a player in my other game who turned out to be scum. Actually analyzing what he's said so far though seems to lean slightly townish. Things like asking what color a person's role was (there should only be two going by the sample PMs and scum would already know what everyone's is if that's the case) and pointing out problems with Wu's posts. None of that's definitive, but it has made me a bit less wary if nothing else.

Meg seems to be genuinely trying to analyze and keep things focused on the game. I feel like they might be town, but can't say for certain yet.

Roden feels similar to me. I would assume that he's played on other forums or in some other fashion because he definitely seems to have more confidence and presence than newbies in my other game.

Catboi I'm holding off on analyzing just because I am somewhat familiar with them and don't want to let bias influence my reads, so I need a bit more before I can make any calls.

Save the Dragons (imma just call you StG from here on for the sake of ease) has only posted twice, but I am curious why he ignored Catboi's question? It could just be that he missed it so I don't think that's AI atm but it is something I'm curious about.

Wu is probably the scummiest of the people that have posted so far, but I don't know if that's just me being easily influenced. One thing I will say is the assumption that scum won't bus day 1 is false, that's actually a somewhat effective strategy in certain games, especially on this forum (at least that's what I was told by one of the SE players in my last game). All it takes for a mafia victory is one tricky and charismatic scum player, so having a partner isn't technically necessary, especially since that'd make it easier for you to have more influence on who dies since you'd have complete control over NK

As for everyone else, gotta wait til they post more

[Roden]

This has nothing to do with the game; but for the people with anime avatars, what are the names of the characters in your avatars? I'm really curious.

For mine, their name is Raqio. They're from a game called Gnosia, which is basically half visual novel and half single player Mafia in space. Mafia vs AI sounds like it wouldn't work, but all characters have legitimate tells while still being programmed to try to trick you. It's honestly really fun and intriguing, and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys Mafia style games.

[GeneralWu]

I literally just won a scum game doing exactly that lol. I fully expect to get policy elim'd if scum gets voted out Day 1 again.

I just think it's very difficult to recover once one scum member gets eliminated day 1. Probably the only way for scum to recover in that case is to kill a town power role on night 1.

I also think it's a bad idea to policy zgrynibys you solely for the reason you mentioned.

[GeneralWu]

This has nothing to do with the game; but for the people with anime avatars, what are the names of the characters in your avatars? I'm really curious.

For mine, their name is Raqio. They're from a game called Gnosia, which is basically half visual novel and half single player Mafia in space. Mafia vs AI sounds like it wouldn't work, but all characters have legitimate tells while still being programmed to try to trick you. It's honestly really fun and intriguing, and I highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys Mafia style games.

Whoa dang that's really cool. AI mafia sounds fun.

[GeneralWu]

T3 still gives me weird vibes, but I think that might be because he reminds me of a player in my other game who turned out to be scum. Actually analyzing what he's said so far though seems to lean slightly townish. Things like asking what color a person's role was (there should only be two going by the sample PMs and scum would already know what everyone's is if that's the case) and pointing out problems with Wu's posts. None of that's definitive, but it has made me a bit less wary if nothing else.

Honestly, I also think T3 is a bit weird. It's a bit suspicious how he just voted me for townreading people and not elaborating further, even though when I made those reads there weren't many posts and thus not much to explain. I also think it's a bit weird how he said navigator is locktown, because I wouldn't locktown anybody so early in the game.

[GeneralWu]

Wu is probably the scummiest of the people that have posted so far, but I don't know if that's just me being easily influenced. One thing I will say is the assumption that scum won't bus day 1 is false, that's actually a somewhat effective strategy in certain games, especially on this forum (at least that's what I was told by one of the SE players in my last game). All it takes for a mafia victory is one tricky and charismatic scum player, so having a partner isn't technically necessary, especially since that'd make it easier for you to have more influence on who dies since you'd have complete control over NK

I'm not saying that there's no bussing at all during day 1. I'm just saying that it's pretty difficult for scum to recover if one scum member gets zgrynibysed day 1; therefore it's unlikely for scum to bus so hard that one scum member gets zgrynibysed early on.
Having a partner makes it easier to win the game because if you're mafia and your partner dies, then you have to kill more townies to win. While it is easy to make yourself look towny through extreme bussing on day 1, it's a huge risk because it doesn't always work. Furthermore, you'd automatically lose the game if, for instance, a town cop investigates you on night 1. If you had a partner, it wouldn't be an automatic loss.

Also, in every mafia game I've ever played, I don't think there were any huge disagreements over the NK.

Having a partner isn't necessary for winning, but you can be at a huge disadvantage if you lose your partner early in the game.