lendunistus's Mini Normal Review, July 2021

[implosion]

Setup (11 players):

1x Town 2-shot Detective
1x Town Backup 2-shot Detective
1x Town Neighborizer
6x Vanilla Townie

1x Mafia Informed

(info: "This game contains a Town 2-shot Detective.")

1x Mafia Jailkeeper

Daytalk is enabled for both neighbours and Mafia
Mafia have the ability to multitask

Spoiler: Rules

Rules

(Adapted from northsidegal)

General

-Adhere to all site rules.
-Always play to win.
-Remember that this is a game - heated discussion is allowed, but personal attacks are not.
-Pretending to break the rules will be treated similarly as actually breaking the rules.
-Do not quote any out of game communication regarding this game - this includes your role PM, any other PMs I may send you and any PTs you may have. You are allowed to paraphrase.
-If you need to get my attention, please include "

@mod

" in your post or PM me.
-

This

(#800080) is my color. You can use it, if you want.
-Do not use encryption, hidden text or excessively small text in your posts.
-Do not use any form of provable randomness. This includes dice tags, screenshots of random.org, etc. Saying you flipped a coin is okay, providing some sort of proof that you did isn’t.
-Each day phase will last for a maximum of 10 days, with night phases lasting for a maximum of 48 hours.
-If you want the night to end faster, send me a PM requesting for a fast night. If all living players do this, the night will end early.
-Do not post in the game thread or any private topics following your death, with the exception of the dead thread.
-If you have the ability to edit your posts, do not do so.
-My decisions are final. If I feel you are violating any of the rules, I will take the appropriate action.
-As a general principle, whenever moderator action is required I will attempt to make the decision that has the least impact on the natural flow of gameplay. For example, force replacing instead of modkilling whenever possible.
-Have fun!

Voting

-Vote either with vote tags (VOTE: lendunistus) or with bold text (

vote: lendunistus

). You don't have to use the exact name, you can use shortened versions or abbreviations. Just make sure that I can understand who you're voting.
-Eliminations will occur when a majority (>50%) is reached. If no majority is reached before deadline, the day will end in a no elimination.
-Voting to end the day in a no-elimination requires only 50% of players, not >50%.
-Once a hammer has occurred, the game is in "twilight". Discussion may continue until I lock the thread but no further votes or unvotes will be counted.

Activity

-You are expected to make at least one game-relevant post every 48 hours. Players who go 48 hours without posting will be prodded.
-If you are prodded, you have 24 hours to post in-thread. If you do not respond within 24 hours, you will be replaced. Additionally, if I have to prod you 3 or more times, you will be replaced at my own discretion.
-Abuse of prod dodges will result in you being replaced at my own discretion.
-If you are going to be V/LA, please announce it in thread or PM me. If your V/LA will last 7 days or longer I may be forced to replace you.

Game Notes

-This game will follow Natural Action Resolution.
-If you do not send me an action for the night, I will assume that you are not taking one.
-The Mafia private thread and any other PTs that may exist will always have daytalk.
-"Bah!" posts are prohibited.
-If you would like me to make a private notes PT for you, please PM me requesting me to do so. It will be released 24 hours after the game ends unless you object to this.
-At least one player has received the following role:

Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when the town is the last remaining faction.

i'll have role PMs and opening post ready a bit later. also, datisi is my co-mod/designer so could he please be added to the review thread?

thanks!

[implosion]

Primary: Ircher
Secondary: mastina

[Ircher]

Question: Will this setup be confirmed as 9-2 or will it be left in the air? I think it will make a noticeable impact on balance.

[lendunistus]

Question: Will this setup be confirmed as 9-2 or will it be left in the air? I think it will make a noticeable impact on balance.

left in the air as far as I know

@implo

could you add datisi to this thread btw? I noticed that he wasn’t included in the PM

[lendunistus]

i'll write up role PMs when I have the willpower to do so (probably later today)

[implosion]

added, will shoot a PM.

[mastina]

Question; does the backup 2x detective inherit the remaining shots of the 2x detective, or always have 2 no matter what?

As in, if the 2x detective uses a shot and dies, does the backup 2x detective get 1 shot or two?

I think regardless of the answer, the setup is notably scumsided, but the answer to this affects by how much. In the former case of two shots no matter what, I'd call it beyond the range of acceptably scumsided (~65-35 scum-town I'd say), in the latter I'd call it borderline but maybe maybe

maybe

passable as scumsided but within the margin (~60-40 scum-town, which is allowed, but not recommended).

[lendunistus]

Question; does the backup 2x detective inherit the remaining shots of the 2x detective, or always have 2 no matter what?

As in, if the 2x detective uses a shot and dies, does the backup 2x detective get 1 shot or two?

I think regardless of the answer, the setup is notably scumsided, but the answer to this affects by how much. In the former case of two shots no matter what, I'd call it beyond the range of acceptably scumsided (~65-35 scum-town I'd say), in the latter I'd call it borderline but maybe maybe

maybe

passable as scumsided but within the margin (~60-40 scum-town, which is allowed, but not recommended).

backup inherits the remaining shots of the 2-shot detective

[lendunistus]

what if I remove the JK? would that make it too townsided?

[Ircher]

Power-wise, the detective gives reliable guilties, but its innos aren't necessarily clears. With the number of scum not known, that gives scum more room to fake claim; in fact, they could probably get away with true claiming jailkeeper with the current power level of this setup. Thus, I agree with mastina that this setup is too scum sided as is. I think dropping the JK should be fine. The diffusion of power is the only real concern for scum, but town's PRs are limited by shots anyway, and scum should have some good fake claiming latitude in this setup. You could maybe replace the JK with a checker if you want to encourage scum in that direction; I'd be willing to pass that as well.

[lendunistus]

so
1x Town 2-shot Detective
1x Town Backup 2-shot Detective
1x Town Neighborizer
6x Vanilla Townie
1x Mafia Informed (info: "This game contains a Town 2-shot Detective.")
1x Mafia Checker
Daytalk is enabled for both neighbours and Mafia
Mafia have the ability to multitask

thoughts? maybe put in a town informed with knowledge that the game is 9v2? (although that might be a bit problematic when comboed with detective.) what about town informed with the knowledge that at least one scum power role exists? (although that has the problem of maybe being relatively useless)

i’ll ask datisi for opinions. if it seems like we’ve reached a consensus i’ll write up some role PMs

[implosion]

Technically the backup defective should get 2 fresh shots when they take over the role based on normal rules. Universal backups inherit shots, but regular backups simply become that role if someone with the role dies. They effectively become a new copy.

[lendunistus]

Technically the backup defective should get 2 fresh shots when they take over the role based on normal rules. Universal backups inherit shots, but regular backups simply become that role if someone with the role dies. They effectively become a new copy.

ah, okay, wasn’t aware of that

turning JK into a checker should be enough then imo, no need to give town extra power

[mastina]

so
1x Town 2-shot Detective
1x Town Backup 2-shot Detective
1x Town Neighborizer
6x Vanilla Townie
1x Mafia Informed (info: "This game contains a Town 2-shot Detective.")
1x Mafia Checker
Daytalk is enabled for both neighbours and Mafia
Mafia have the ability to multitask

Technically the backup defective should get 2 fresh shots when they take over the role based on normal rules. Universal backups inherit shots, but regular backups simply become that role if someone with the role dies. They effectively become a new copy.

Per this I'd say it's within the balanced range (may not be exactly 50/50 but is acceptably close), but is Ircher's call here.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I'm fine with the setup as it is currently, so we just need role and result pms now.

[lendunistus]

Role PMs:

Town Neighborizer

You are a

Town Neighborizer

.

You have access to this private topic. Initially, you are the only player with access to your private topic. You may read it and post to it at any time while you are alive.

Once per night, you may choose a player. Assuming no interference with your action, your target will be given access to your private topic, and will become able to read it and post to it at any time.

You win when town is the last remaining faction.

Game Thread

Confirm by either replying to this PM with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Town 2-shot Detective

You are a

Town 2-shot Detective

.

Twice per game and once per night, you may choose a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not your target has performed a successful killing action on another player this game.

You win when town is the last remaining faction.

Game Thread

Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Town Backup 2-shot Detective

You are a

Town Backup 2-shot Detective

.

When a

2-shot Detective

dies, you will gain the following ability:

"Twice per game and once per night, you may choose a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not your target has performed a successful killing action on another player this game."

You win when town is the last remaining faction.

Game Thread

Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities.

You win when the town is the last remaining faction.

Game Thread

Confirm by replying to this PM with your role name and alignment.

Mafia Informed

You are a

Mafia Informed.

Your teammate is

player

(a Mafia Checker). You may talk to them using this private topic, which you may read and post to at any time while you are alive.

You know the following additional information about this game: "This game contains a Town 2-shot Detective."

Once per night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may nightkill a player; assuming no interference with your action, that player will die unless protected.

You win when the mafia is the last faction remaining or when nothing can prevent this (i.e. parity or majority over the Town).

Game Thread

Confirm by either replying to this PM with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

Mod Notes:

This role flips without its information.

Mafia Checker

You are a

Mafia Checker

.

Once per night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be informed that your action succeeded (but your action has no other effect).

Once per night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may nightkill a player; assuming no interference with your action, that player will die unless protected.

You have the ability to multitask (use both of your actions on the same night).

You win when the mafia is the last faction remaining or when nothing can prevent this (i.e. parity or majority over the Town).

Game Thread

Confirm by either replying to this PM with your role name and alignment or by posting in your PT.

[lendunistus]

Result PMs:

Neighborizer result PM:
"You have gained access to this private topic. You may read it and post to it at any time while you are alive."

Detective result PMs:
"You received a Positive result."; "You received a Negative result."; not possible but still including this: "You received No Result."

Checker result PMs:
"You successfully checked

target

."; not possible but still including this: "Your action failed."

Backup Detective activation PM:
"A Town 2-shot Detective has died! You may now use your ability."

[lendunistus]

@implo

some messups that need edits:

-remove extra area tags at the neighborizer PM win condition
-add "while you are alive" to the end of the ability description of neighborizer
-put neighborizer result PM in quotation marks and remove the area tag

apologies for the typos, can't fix them myself

[implosion]

I just gave you thread edit permissions.

[implosion]

Though also feel free to just quote them in a new post with fixed versions, in general.

[implosion]

(I sort of go into these threads completely at random so there's little guarantee i'll actually see something in them :p)

[lendunistus]

alright, thanks

[Ircher]

/pass

[lendunistus]

I made a mistake in the Backup 2-shot det role PM, I said that “When a Town 2-shot Detective dies, you will gain the following ability” when it should be when a 2-shot Detective dies, regardless of alignment

fixed now

[lendunistus]

pulling the game for now and saving the setup for later