Mini Theme 2217 | Owner's market blitz | Over

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And why did Distance die? Then I have no idea why scum would kill Flea.

So when you tried to push is with that, I auto assumed scum!you trying to frame us because I really can’t see any reason for faer kill, unless far was sus on Gamma? I don’t recall that though.

Do you have any idea who’d have cop if not him? I really don’t understand why he died unless scum thought he was cop though. Why else would scum kill him? I suppose VFP frame is also possible?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

am i really an obvious kill..? i wouldnt think so

I don’t think scum no killed.

Did Mastina ever claim jk before then? Why would scum assume she was jk otherwise?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Mastina never claimed jk until D4, so not a valid defense.


VOTE: Kyouku

I still think you not visiting Marci isn’t cleaning because Gamma was still in the game. Again, definitely not us, I don’t see why SS guilties Gamma and I think Distance was killed for likely having a cop inno on Marci, so I don’t see how it’s not Kyouku by PoE.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

If I had visited, you would have seen it happen, even if my kill attempt failed. UNLESS I visited with Ninja active, then, if I visited Marci, you would see that I didn't go anywhere. Because we know VFP bought Ninja, your result means I did not go anywhere that Night.

That in and of itself is not a clear on me, because 2 scum were alive at the time, but now we know the second scum was Gamma. Out of Gamma and I, which of us performs the kill if the town!S&M has the Tracker? More likely Gamma, because town!S&M is not likely to track Gamma.

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Wait, didn’t you say you had it since D1?

I have had it since D1. I am town. So scum did not have hitman available the night the JK protected Marci. If I were scum, then I would have had it available, and I would have used it to shoot through JK, because JK is the strongest protective in this setup. It stops kills both by jailing the killer or by jailing the victim.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I have to go pick up my family from my in-laws house but I'll be back in an hour or two

[Nancy Drew 39]

The fact is that no one knew either that Mastina was jk or that she would jk Marci. So if you didn’t know of either, your claim of holstering hitman isn’t clearing, especially considering it’s a one shot.

Gamma wouldn’t have killed us because until SS’ guilty, he had me thoroughly pocketed and if Distance had the cop and inno’d Marci, it makes sense that she’d be the kill. Maybe scum also feared her NA? Damned if I know but I don’t believe scum no killed.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The fact is that no one knew either that Mastina was jk or that she would jk Marci. So if you didn’t know of either, your claim of holstering hitman isn’t clearing, especially considering it’s a one shot.

Gamma wouldn’t have killed us because until SS’ guilty, he had me thoroughly pocketed and if Distance had the cop and inno’d Marci, it makes sense that she’d be the kill. Maybe scum also feared her NA? Damned if I know but I don’t believe scum no killed.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

If I had visited, you would have seen it happen, even if my kill attempt failed. UNLESS I visited with Ninja active, then, if I visited Marci, you would see that I didn't go anywhere. Because we know VFP bought Ninja, your result means I did not go anywhere that Night.

That in and of itself is not a clear on me, because 2 scum were alive at the time, but now we know the second scum was Gamma. Out of Gamma and I, which of us performs the kill if the town!S&M has the Tracker? More likely Gamma, because town!S&M is not likely to track Gamma.

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Wait, didn’t you say you had it since D1?

I have had it since D1. I am town. So scum did not have hitman available the night the JK protected Marci. If I were scum, then I would have had it available, and I would have used it to shoot through JK, because JK is the strongest protective in this setup. It stops kills both by jailing the killer or by jailing the victim.

Well who is scum then because it 100% isn’t us, so sell me on Marci, SS but I strongly believe they have better reasons for being town than you.

Explain why Distance was killed if he didn’t inno Marci or why SS guilties Gamma?

Again, no one knew Mastina had jk or would use it on Marci, so this isn’t clearing.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

marcis town
like
always town
dont bother pushing her

ill treat that as a scumclaim

This reads to me like a possible inno on Marci.

And considering that Gamma was more strongly sr than Gamma, it doesn’t make sense that he’d guilty him.

I KNOW we’re town and Kyouku’s hitman argument is meaningless because it implies scum actually knew either or both that Mastina had jk and that she would use it on Marci and no evidence to suggest this.

Kyouku tried to stop Kitty wagon. Gamma hardpushed me to vote her for MO > Flea/CB. I think the double bus theory is nonsence and Kyouku initially pushing us for allegedly bussing Kitty screams tmi to me.

Mastina never ever townlocks us here as scum. She said this is “transparently town!Nancy”.

Why I believed SS’ guilty was because I don’t believe scum!SS would guilty a buddy, so why wouldn’t I believe the guilty? I also sr Gamma’s “but who’s the partner” as not a town reaction. Then he said, he KNOWS SS is scum but Mastina tr him, another scummy reaction proving that he didn’t actually believe what he was saying, so your reasoning for my auto believing SS doesn’t hold up. Scum!SS tries to protect his buddies not guilty them and Gamma wasn’t even on his radar but Mastina did think if there was a bus, it could only have been Gamma.

I would also not gone out on a limb to save SS if I were scum because he’s seen my scumgame and that would have been extremely risky, so scum!me would just not do that. There has never been a game with town!him and scum!me where he hasn’t doubted me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

marcis town
like
always town
dont bother pushing her

ill treat that as a scumclaim

This reads to me like a possible inno on Marci.

And considering that Gamma was more strongly sr than Gamma, it doesn’t make sense that he’d guilty him.

I KNOW we’re town and Kyouku’s hitman argument is meaningless because it implies scum actually knew either or both that Mastina had jk and that she would use it on Marci and no evidence to suggest this.

Kyouku tried to stop Kitty wagon. Gamma hardpushed me to vote her for MO > Flea/CB. I think the double bus theory is nonsence and Kyouku initially pushing us for allegedly bussing Kitty screams tmi to me.

Mastina never ever townlocks us here as scum. She said this is “transparently town!Nancy”.

Why I believed SS’ guilty was because I don’t believe scum!SS would guilty a buddy, so why wouldn’t I believe the guilty? I also sr Gamma’s “but who’s the partner” as not a town reaction. Then he said, he KNOWS SS is scum but Mastina tr him, another scummy reaction proving that he didn’t actually believe what he was saying, so your reasoning for my auto believing SS doesn’t hold up. Scum!SS tries to protect his buddies not guilty them and Gamma wasn’t even on his radar but Mastina did think if there was a bus, it could only have been Gamma.

I would also not gone out on a limb to save SS if I were scum because he’s seen my scumgame and that would have been extremely risky, so scum!me would just not do that. There has never been a game with town!him and scum!me where he hasn’t doubted me.

P.edit: that should read, since SS was more strongly st than Gamma.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s definitely fake
But who’s the partner

I know S_S is scum but iirc mastina TRed him

This is why I believed SS’ guilty because town just never makes these kinds of posts here

[marcistar]

That’s definitely fake
But who’s the partner

I know S_S is scum but iirc mastina TRed him

This is why I believed SS’ guilty because town just never makes these kinds of posts here

has something_smart ever like mega-brainely bussed their partner or no?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

That’s definitely fake
But who’s the partner

I know S_S is scum but iirc mastina TRed him

This is why I believed SS’ guilty because town just never makes these kinds of posts here

has something_smart ever like mega-brainely bussed their partner or no?

Not to my knowledge. I seriously doubt there exists a scumgame where SS guilties them. I honestly don’t understand what scum was even thinking. They know SS claimed 2 shot watcher and why wouldn’t he have watched Mastina?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

If I had visited, you would have seen it happen, even if my kill attempt failed. UNLESS I visited with Ninja active, then, if I visited Marci, you would see that I didn't go anywhere. Because we know VFP bought Ninja, your result means I did not go anywhere that Night.

That in and of itself is not a clear on me, because 2 scum were alive at the time, but now we know the second scum was Gamma. Out of Gamma and I, which of us performs the kill if the town!S&M has the Tracker? More likely Gamma, because town!S&M is not likely to track Gamma.

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Wait, didn’t you say you had it since D1?

I have had it since D1. I am town. So scum did not have hitman available the night the JK protected Marci. If I were scum, then I would have had it available, and I would have used it to shoot through JK, because JK is the strongest protective in this setup. It stops kills both by jailing the killer or by jailing the victim.

Well who is scum then because it 100% isn’t us, so sell me on Marci, SS but I strongly believe they have better reasons for being town than you.

Explain why Distance was killed if he didn’t inno Marci or why SS guilties Gamma?

Again, no one knew Mastina had jk or would use it on Marci, so this isn’t clearing.

I have theorized on why Distance was killed. I was pushing the theory that the D1 wagon on Kitty was a bus, so when scum killed Distance, it shows everyone else that the wagon was town-led and discredits the idea that there was a bus D1. Gamma has motive to kill Distance, because it takes suspicion away from the Kitty wagon.

This is also a.motive for you, but if you're town, you can still admit that Gamma does have reason to kill Distance to take pressure off of the Kitty wagon coming from me.

I do think that Distance innoed Marci, but I dont think that's why he died.

Also want to say that who has the JK does not matter. All that matters is if I'm scum, I know town won it, because scum didnt win it. I wouldn't be using hitman to specifically shoot through a protect on Marci, but because the Jailkeeper could stop a kill in 2 ways instead of 1

If you are town, you saw my case on Gamma. Regarding him sidelining as me vs you and mastina vs VFP dominate the thread with fighting. We've seen I was right about that. When you read my case and think about the whole game, I think it's clear that I have actually picked up on scummy behavior of Gamma's and that it's not a bus. That only leaves S_S, who I also cited as being a sideliney player. Another reason why you dont die as tracker, but mastina does, is that you had both Gamma and S_S TRed. Neither of them suspects you.

Basically if you are town, last scum has to be S_S as it seems Marci was innoed by Distance. What reason do you have to TR him?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

If I had visited, you would have seen it happen, even if my kill attempt failed. UNLESS I visited with Ninja active, then, if I visited Marci, you would see that I didn't go anywhere. Because we know VFP bought Ninja, your result means I did not go anywhere that Night.

That in and of itself is not a clear on me, because 2 scum were alive at the time, but now we know the second scum was Gamma. Out of Gamma and I, which of us performs the kill if the town!S&M has the Tracker? More likely Gamma, because town!S&M is not likely to track Gamma.

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Wait, didn’t you say you had it since D1?

I have had it since D1. I am town. So scum did not have hitman available the night the JK protected Marci. If I were scum, then I would have had it available, and I would have used it to shoot through JK, because JK is the strongest protective in this setup. It stops kills both by jailing the killer or by jailing the victim.

Well who is scum then because it 100% isn’t us, so sell me on Marci, SS but I strongly believe they have better reasons for being town than you.

Explain why Distance was killed if he didn’t inno Marci or why SS guilties Gamma?

Again, no one knew Mastina had jk or would use it on Marci, so this isn’t clearing.

I have theorized on why Distance was killed. I was pushing the theory that the D1 wagon on Kitty was a bus, so when scum killed Distance, it shows everyone else that the wagon was town-led and discredits the idea that there was a bus D1. Gamma has motive to kill Distance, because it takes suspicion away from the Kitty wagon.

This is also a.motive for you, but if you're town, you can still admit that Gamma does have reason to kill Distance to take pressure off of the Kitty wagon coming from me.

I do think that Distance innoed Marci, but I dont think that's why he died.

Also want to say that who has the JK does not matter. All that matters is if I'm scum, I know town won it, because scum didnt win it. I wouldn't be using hitman to specifically shoot through a protect on Marci, but because the Jailkeeper could stop a kill in 2 ways instead of 1

If you are town, you saw my case on Gamma. Regarding him sidelining as me vs you and mastina vs VFP dominate the thread with fighting. We've seen I was right about that. When you read my case and think about the whole game, I think it's clear that I have actually picked up on scummy behavior of Gamma's and that it's not a bus. That only leaves S_S, who I also cited as being a sideliney player. Another reason why you dont die as tracker, but mastina does, is that you had both Gamma and S_S TRed. Neither of them suspects you.

Basically if you are town, last scum has to be S_S as it seems Marci was innoed by Distance. What reason do you have to TR him?

Can you explain to me why scum!SS guilties his buddy then? Wouldn’t scum have a much better chance of winning with two scum at the end?

I can go over SS/Gamma interactions. Do you view them as SvS because Gamma seemed to put offguard by them?

Also, if SS is last scum, then why hasn’t he already hammered you?

What could scum!SS possibly be waiting for?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I'm not sure if I'll be able to post any more after a little bit. I think it's best to leave my vote on nobody. I very much don't want to kill S&M; I think ssbm and marci should crossvote and S&M should decide, but if you guys want to petition the mod for an extension so I can provide more input you can.

@Kyouku, I really don’t understand why scum!SS makes this post when he could have easily just hammered you.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

It's still plurality until deadline, even if all 3 of you vote me, you'd all have to quick end anyways. I'm not saying S_S is scum because he did this, as he obviously has something going on irl that is putting him on vla, but as scum here, S_S is conveniently able to sideline while conftown (via Distance inno) Marci chooses.between us, whi have been at each others throats most of the game. It's a no lose situation for him, and he doesnt have to explain his vote.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Why to guilty gamma: look at the end of the day before S_S guiltied Gamma. I was closing in on Gamma, and Imaginality was following. I think Gamma was going to be the lim that day even if he wasn't guiltied.

Problem is, it seems likely that Imaginality roleblocked S_S, which means if S_S is scum, he has hitman, and S_S and Gamma swapped claims. That would be really risky to do, which is why I'm sort of PoE'ed into voting you here. And I think you are also PoE'd to vote me if you're town.

It does seem risky to switch claims... but maybe not as risky as I originally thought. Scum!S_S knows I am town. They know I will try to.avoid boosting the scum powers, but if they listened to what I said about powers slipping through the last day, they may have been willing to gamble on dayvig or hitman getting through and going for a play like this. Watcher is the only role that can safely swap claims, because they can watch their partner to make sure they were not auction detectived, and they can get away with it because you did not suspect them, so you would not track them.

Also remember Misty's day 1. She sounds dejected to have rolled scum. "I feel the setup can be won by poe" and "that's going to be my excuse anyway" - what if she is frustrated to have rolled scum already, and then sees.Gamma bussing Kitty. Scum!Misty does not want Kitty to die and starts a counter wagon on VFP. I jump on with her and try to convince Gamma to switch, but he persists in bussing. Misty replaces out - possibly because she is frustrated that I gave Gamma an out and he still bussed Kitty.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

hi gamma

how much have you been following

i think gamma and kyouko are town

I think the strategy for them from the getgo was just to buddy me.

HEAL: kyouko

not having a great night probably won’t be around until tomorrow

Misty also votes me for MO, like Gamma

Mistyx who are you scumreading rn?

no one yet

i feel like this setup can be won by PoE anyway

at least that’s gonna be my excuse

This comes after this little interaction: I voice suspicion about Misty's posting. Misty replies in kind of a weak way, and then Gamma.tries to throw her a bone. I think he sees me catching on to his partner who is kinda not contributing and he tries to get her to contribute.

I like reading Misty's posts at surface level but when I think about them I understand nothing

all of my posts have either 3 levels or 0 levels of thought put into them and even i can rarely tell which

Mistyx who are you scumreading rn?

249 might just be Gamma trying to give the appearance of solving, but the timing is suspicious. He doesn't need to buddy Misty if hes going to be buddying me as MO

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The way I see it, conceivably Gamma could be sheeping you, as he almost always is following you. But you so adamantly TRed him all game and I dont feel like you ever provided sufficient reason to. Misty and Gamma look like partners for sure though, and I think my interpretation of Misty's gameplay makes a lot of sense. Scum that is disappointed to have rolled scum, and frustrated that her partner is bussing on D1. So frustrated she replaces out.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also still need your full bidding history, it's suspicious you still haven't shared it

[Smoke and Mirrors]

UNVOTE:

I’m going to unvote for now. I still think it’s you but I want SS to reassure me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why to guilty gamma: look at the end of the day before S_S guiltied Gamma. I was closing in on Gamma, and Imaginality was following. I think Gamma was going to be the lim that day even if he wasn't guiltied.

Problem is, it seems likely that Imaginality roleblocked S_S, which means if S_S is scum, he has hitman, and S_S and Gamma swapped claims. That would be really risky to do, which is why I'm sort of PoE'ed into voting you here. And I think you are also PoE'd to vote me if you're town.

It does seem risky to switch claims... but maybe not as risky as I originally thought. Scum!S_S knows I am town. They know I will try to.avoid boosting the scum powers, but if they listened to what I said about powers slipping through the last day, they may have been willing to gamble on dayvig or hitman getting through and going for a play like this. Watcher is the only role that can safely swap claims, because they can watch their partner to make sure they were not auction detectived, and they can get away with it because you did not suspect them, so you would not track them.

Also remember Misty's day 1. She sounds dejected to have rolled scum. "I feel the setup can be won by poe" and "that's going to be my excuse anyway" - what if she is frustrated to have rolled scum already, and then sees.Gamma bussing Kitty. Scum!Misty does not want Kitty to die and starts a counter wagon on VFP. I jump on with her and try to convince Gamma to switch, but he persists in bussing. Misty replaces out - possibly because she is frustrated that I gave Gamma an out and he still bussed Kitty.

I admit I’m having doubts now. Mastina was suspicious of SS and he usually does more as town. As long as you were tunnelling me, it seemed like a slam dunk but then if he thinks that Distance inno’d Marci, then why isn’t he locktowning her? So that is kind’ve bothering me. Why does he want you and Marci to vote each other? Why does he even advocate for that?

If he is scum, then I’m going to feel absolutely stupid for flipping the vote onto Cyrus.

I’m having serious doubts rn. :/

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Why to guilty gamma: look at the end of the day before S_S guiltied Gamma. I was closing in on Gamma, and Imaginality was following. I think Gamma was going to be the lim that day even if he wasn't guiltied.

Problem is, it seems likely that Imaginality roleblocked S_S, which means if S_S is scum, he has hitman, and S_S and Gamma swapped claims. That would be really risky to do, which is why I'm sort of PoE'ed into voting you here. And I think you are also PoE'd to vote me if you're town.

It does seem risky to switch claims... but maybe not as risky as I originally thought. Scum!S_S knows I am town. They know I will try to.avoid boosting the scum powers, but if they listened to what I said about powers slipping through the last day, they may have been willing to gamble on dayvig or hitman getting through and going for a play like this. Watcher is the only role that can safely swap claims, because they can watch their partner to make sure they were not auction detectived, and they can get away with it because you did not suspect them, so you would not track them.

Also remember Misty's day 1. She sounds dejected to have rolled scum. "I feel the setup can be won by poe" and "that's going to be my excuse anyway" - what if she is frustrated to have rolled scum already, and then sees.Gamma bussing Kitty. Scum!Misty does not want Kitty to die and starts a counter wagon on VFP. I jump on with her and try to convince Gamma to switch, but he persists in bussing. Misty replaces out - possibly because she is frustrated that I gave Gamma an out and he still bussed Kitty.

I thought you had hitman or do you mean 2 shot?

I guess it’s possible that the watcher claim was fake.

That also has been bugging me. Why does jk!Mastina die > 2 shot watcher!SS? The correct play for scum is to always kill an invest before a jk.

Another thing is that Gamma would 100% tell you pocket me. Gamma KNOWS about my meta of being extremely hard to miselim.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

The way I see it, conceivably Gamma could be sheeping you, as he almost always is following you. But you so adamantly TRed him all game and I dont feel like you ever provided sufficient reason to. Misty and Gamma look like partners for sure though, and I think my interpretation of Misty's gameplay makes a lot of sense. Scum that is disappointed to have rolled scum, and frustrated that her partner is bussing on D1. So frustrated she replaces out.

It’s possible. Misty hate rolling scum. I really really don’t want to be responsible for losing us this game but I really don’t understand why you’d kill Distance.

I do think he was killed for what looks like a Marci inno - and in fact SS was the one to point that out first, so SS straight up not voting you and still suspecting Marci makes no sense.