FFVII Mafia: Over

[wolframnhart]

Vote: Armlx

Specifically at post 603 where it seems to me that he's pushing for the ABR lynch (and if I'm wrong, please tell me.)

I don't really get how ABR can think this, but he's claimed a pro-town power role under the alias of a semi-major and recurrent character (according to wiki), and since no one's countered, I'm willing to believe his claim for now.

His case against Yosarian seems legitamate as well, though I'm not sure I'm willing to go with ABR on that ~

This doesn't really make sense to me...

Armlx isn't pushing for an ABR lynch, in fact he has been very anti-ABR lynch. He only said that people should be voting, nothing at all in 603 ha suggests they should be voting for ABR.

[Yosarian2]

Not to mention, Jebus, that Albert has already admitted that the power role claim was a complete lie...

[armlx]

Specifically at post 603 where it seems to me that he's pushing for the ABR lynch (and if I'm wrong, please tell me.)

I'm not pro-ABR lynch, though I can see how you would think that a mass voting spree would lead to that. I want people to take a stance though, as there are so few here doing so.

[TonyMontana]

Vote:ABR

Because it's the right thing to do.

[Empking]

So rare that it is completely implausible for Xtoxm to be one. But with posts like these,

lol some people are way too gullible.

Confirm vote: Xtoxm

Ok, so tell me why we should lynch Xtox given the chance he might really be a daycop that played badly? It's not a high chance, but there's also the fact that at worst we lose a townie (hopefully not a PR) and at best Xtox is bussing for the long run.

FoS: xtoxm

I will go back and point out exactly what posts I do not like, which will most likely parallel posts already quoted by others, but I feel it would be beneficial for me to do so anyways.

At the moment, I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and see whether or not your day cop claim is true by going along with the suggestion of lynching either you or armlx. I would much rather not risk losing a power role so early in the game, and so I willl

vote: armlx

one would come to think that the town needs a little push over the cliff to lynch a confirmed liar and possible scum.

The SK argument against me would come up whether or not Xtoxm was scum, so that argument is void and meaningless.

You are as likely SK as me, as it stands.

From my read, I also dislike the way DyanamoIX jumped on Xtoxm:

Well, I did want X to come back to answer the last few questions for us, but as it seems now (to me and to everyone else) he was confrimed lying and ABR says he is confrimed scum. If nobody else wants to Ill hammer him, or Ill just wait till he gets back before I place another vote onto him.

This, after an unvote, seems pretty wishy washy, non-committal and irresponsible come day 2.

I am currently displeased with the following players:

CallmeLiam
Yosarian
DynamoIX

I really don't understand how the bold bit follows. Its a SK tell regardless of whether it hit scum or town therefore it isn't a tell?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Its not a plausible SK strategy at all, therefore I am as likely SK as anyone else here is.

[armlx]

Vote:ABR

Because it's the right thing to do.

In a vacuum, yes. In ABR land, no.

[Grimmy]

Vote:ABR

Because it's the right thing to do.

In a vacuum, yes. In ABR land, no.

What are your thoughts on people who ARE voting for ABR, and do their reasons make them suspicious?

Grimmy
abr land...heheh

[GhostWriter]

Vote:ABR

Because it's the right thing to do.

But why is it the right thing to do?

[TonyMontana]

1) LAL
2) Abrasive
3) Somehow managed to make the case that his meta actually is reason to not think he is scum.

[GhostWriter]

1. Is that a suggestion that we should follow LAL on this?
2. So many people are abrasive in games that it can easily be listed as a nulltell.
3. He did not make the case to begin with, others did, even before yesterday ended.

[kloud1516]

Vote:ABR

Because it's the right thing to do.

But why is it the right thing to do?

In my opinion, ABR's lynch would be the right thing to do for the mere fact that, while his actions may not necessarily be an indication of either ABR being town or scum, they were very anti-town in nature. He blatantly lied to the group, for reasons that could have been approached with the reasoning he provided earlier today. The last time I checked, lying as town provides no benefit to town, as it only assists in casting suspicion on said player regardless of alignment. If ABR is town as he says, this is detracting from actual scum hunting, and sealed the deal on a mislynch. In addition to this, by lying he has make it that much more difficult to take anything he says seriously--a factor that scum will try to exploit.

vote: ABR

You want players to take a position, well then here it is. This vote is not necessarily based on me finding ABR to be scum. Do I believe he could be scum, yes; but I also believe he could indeed be town as well. This is a vote of utility.

[kloud1516]

1. Is that a suggestion that we should follow LAL on this?

2. So many people are abrasive in games that it can easily be listed as a nulltell.
3. He did not make the case to begin with, others did, even before yesterday ended.

1) QFT. Abrasive does not equate specifically to scummy. There are many players that are naturally abrasive/aggressive--thus I agree with the statement of it being null.

2) Once again, QFT.

[armlx]

1) LAL
2) Abrasive
3) Somehow managed to make the case that his meta actually is reason to not think he is scum.

LAL, while usually right, is not infallable. See point 3: Its not just him saying that his meta is as such. While the situations townies should lie are very limited, there are certainly scenarios where neither side is more likely to lie.

Kloud: Anti-town != scummy.

this is detracting from actual scum hunting, and sealed the deal on a mislynch

1) Its only detracting because you are making it such a big deal. Circular logic.
2) Xtoxm sealed his own mislynch by lying in the first place and going back on his claim.

This vote is not necessarily based on me finding ABR to be scum.

Strong FOS Kloud

.

[Jebus]

Not to mention, Jebus, that Albert has already admitted that the power role claim was a complete lie...

Which one, the day-cop one or the Cid one?

[TonyMontana]

1. Is that a suggestion that we should follow LAL on this?
2. So many people are abrasive in games that it can easily be listed as a nulltell.
3. He did not make the case to begin with, others did, even before yesterday ended.

1. I believe in LAL as a way of life.
2. Of course, and it's certainly a nulltell for ABR, as he's always obnoxious.
3. ABR started the day by first mocking everyone who believed him, then explained why him pretending to be a cop was a good play, and then argued that since he already had a history of lying, he was the man for the job.
He's gonna use his meta for evil one day or another, so why not assume today was the day.

[wolframnhart]

Not to mention, Jebus, that Albert has already admitted that the power role claim was a complete lie...

Which one, the day-cop one or the Cid one?

being as it said "Power role" and the fact that if you read the posts you would see ABR admitted the day-cop was a lie, but the Cid role was not.

I still think your vote for Armlx is way too weak and not very valid at all.

FoS Jebus

[Albert B. Rampage]

He's gonna use his meta for evil one day or another, so why not assume today was the day.

Because I only use it for good.

[TonyMontana]

I see nothing good coming out of your lies.

[Albert B. Rampage]

The means justify the ends.

What if you believed Xtoxm, and he continued to ruin the game for town? Someone had to stop that freak.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I lie just as Bruce Wayne lies, when he is asked if he is Batman.

[kloud1516]

this is detracting from actual scum hunting, and sealed the deal on a mislynch

1) Its only detracting because you are making it such a big deal. Circular logic.

1) No, it detracts for the reasons I stated both before this extracted phrase and after. Lying as ABR did serves to:

a) Cast suspicion on said player regardless of alignment. If ABR truly is town, he has only made himself a larger target, thus allowing scum to slip under the radar for the time being.

b) Diminish the credibility of his word in this game; meaning that even if he were telling the truth players (such as myself) would find it hard to trust him--a factor that, as I said, scum will try to exploit.

How is this a circular argument? I feel that both of these points epitomize a detraction from scum hunting, or, at the bare minimum, permit scum to go undetected due to him lying. Distortion of argument as a means of refute. Tisk tisk.

2) Xtoxm sealed his own mislynch by lying in the first place and going back on his claim.

If I remember correctly, the votes were split between you and xtoxm for quite some time. Yes, he lied about being vanilla, which

did

make him suspicious, but, correct me if I am wrong, it wasn't until ABR counter-claimed his day cop claim that the momentum accelerated once more and xtoxm was lynched. This is what I was referring to with "sealed the deal" of the mislynch; others were making cases against xtoxm and votes were flying back-and-forth, so it wasn't xtoxm's backtracking that sealed his fate. No, it wasn't until ABR came forth with the "counter-claim" that votes began to pile on. This is what I consider sealing someone's fate--for the counter-claim condemned xtoxm as the lynchee for Day 1 imo. Yes, he may have been lynched without the counter-claim, but he might not have as well, so I do not agree with you when you say xtoxm sealed his own mislynch.

This vote is not necessarily based on me finding ABR to be scum.

Strong FOS Kloud

.

Did you even bother to look at the rest of this paragraph, or are you just content with cherry-picking certain segments in order to build cases that appear to be more solid than they actually are?

I expressed that I was voting based on utility alone, for I feel the need to rid the game of unhelpful and detrimental players will be the greatest benefit for the town at the moment. Yes, I do indeed believe, as I said, that ABR could in fact be scum, but there is always going to be the possibility of him being town too.

[Jebus]

Not to mention, Jebus, that Albert has already admitted that the power role claim was a complete lie...

Which one, the day-cop one or the Cid one?

being as it said "Power role" and the fact that if you read the posts you would see ABR admitted the day-cop was a lie, but the Cid role was not.

I still think your vote for Armlx is way too weak and not very valid at all.

FoS Jebus

I did, I just thought there might have been something else because Yos2 said that he said his power-claim was a lie after I said he claimed Cid.

And I meant to

unvote

Armlx in my last post, by the way. Still FoS though.

@ABR: Bruce Wayne doesn't stir up all this trouble. There's not too much similarity here at all. You're just plain distracting, and even if I believed your Cid claim, I still might vote you for this.

@Kloud: Agreed.

[armlx]

1. I believe in LAL as a way of life.

Why?

He's gonna use his meta for evil one day or another, so why not assume today was the day.

Because there was no advantage to what he did there as scum over just letting the wagons progress naturally, especially given how obvious it was xtoxm was lying.

1) No, it detracts for the reasons I stated both before this extracted phrase and after. Lying as ABR did serves to:

a) Cast suspicion on said player regardless of alignment. If ABR truly is town, he has only made himself a larger target, thus allowing scum to slip under the radar for the time being.

b) Diminish the credibility of his word in this game; meaning that even if he were telling the truth players (such as myself) would find it hard to trust him--a factor that, as I said, scum will try to exploit.

He's only a larger target because you refuse to account for his meta (aka you pointing out the lying as an issue in the first place), and his credibility was shot in the first place by said meta.

If I remember correctly, the votes were split between you and xtoxm for quite some time. Yes, he lied about being vanilla, which did make him suspicious, but, correct me if I am wrong, it wasn't until ABR counter-claimed his day cop claim that the momentum accelerated once more and xtoxm was lynched. This is what I was referring to with "sealed the deal" of the mislynch; others were making cases against xtoxm and votes were flying back-and-forth, so it wasn't xtoxm's backtracking that sealed his fate. No, it wasn't until ABR came forth with the "counter-claim" that votes began to pile on. This is what I consider sealing someone's fate--for the counter-claim condemned xtoxm as the lynchee for Day 1 imo. Yes, he may have been lynched without the counter-claim, but he might not have as well, so I do not agree with you when you say xtoxm sealed his own mislynch.

Look at it this way. Xtoxm lying was going to be brought out at some point if I was lynched, regardless of my alignment. Hell, I would have to specifically be Shinra for him not to get called out, which is an even longer shot then just scum. At said point, he was going to die.

Did you even bother to look at the rest of this paragraph, or are you just content with cherry-picking certain segments in order to build cases that appear to be more solid than they actually are?

I expressed that I was voting based on utility alone, for I feel the need to rid the game of unhelpful and detrimental players will be the greatest benefit for the town at the moment. Yes, I do indeed believe, as I said, that ABR could in fact be scum, but there is always going to be the possibility of him being town too.

That's not cherry picking. That's a very relevant statement. Lynching for utility is not what we want to do, lynching for scum is. Lynching for utility is an excuse to push mislynches.

[TonyMontana]

The means justify the ends.

What if you believed Xtoxm, and he continued to ruin the game for town? Someone had to stop that freak.

I would never have believed Xtoxm, and I would've fought for his wagon to the end. And I don't see how he "ruined" the game more than you.

1. I believe in LAL as a way of life.

Why?

Because if everyone lynched liars, then only scum would lie.