MT 2219: The Battle of Calculasia - Endgame

[Titus]

To borrow your (and apparently DGB’s phrase) what’s the difference between bad player jail and scum here?

Poor trajectory

[MathBlade]

What do you mean by that?

[Titus]

Galron's trajectory, which I quoted makes no sense. He jumps from why are we not eliminating Toog to Toog makes no sense.

[MathBlade]

Galron's trajectory, which I quoted makes no sense. He jumps from why are we not eliminating Toog to Toog makes no sense.

I agree it doesn’t make sense.

However Toog seemed to be a topic of conversation throughout the prior posts.

I think it’s scummy but I don’t think it’s a smoking gun.

[Titus]

Galron's trajectory, which I quoted makes no sense. He jumps from why are we not eliminating Toog to Toog makes no sense.

I agree it doesn’t make sense.

However Toog seemed to be a topic of conversation throughout the prior posts.

I think it’s scummy but I don’t think it’s a smoking gun.

By itself, no. With the other evidence, yes.

[MathBlade]

See the most likely teams to me are DGB Galron
You and Wheme
And Wheme and Galron

Slight rim shot of DGB Wheme but I don’t see that as likely

So the more you push Galron with scummy things but not a smoking gun the more nervous I become

[Titus]

The more you defend Galron while having him in your scumpool the more nervous I become. If you're scum, you'll never be convinced and it's an excuse to vote me. You're looking to tear apart my theory on Galron's behalf and don't like my resistance to putting all my cards on the table.

If you're town, you're nitpicking. You're also judging me based on how you'd play. It's lylo, get the information, then attack.

[MathBlade]

Fair enough. Well deserved. I just finished poppyseed chicken yay!

[DrippingGoofball]

I would expect a self-respecting scum team to have bus'ed Wheme for future town cred. He'd be more useful to scum dead than alive, even if PR.

[Titus]

After Deco, the mods made me turn in my license.

[Galron]

Math, why are you trusting so hard to defend me? Why are you so invested in getting Titus to strengthen her scum read on me? That's exactly what you're doing and it's scummy af. Set me up as scum in her eyes, strengthen that read for her, then the vote, gg. Same technique I saw you use at least twice since you've been back. Can't remember the game but one you were working on Drew or mena I think and ended up pulling a scum save that never should have happened. Here it's like deja Vu. You have no business trying to defend me. Let Titus come to her own conclusions. You planting your little seeds can stop.

[Galron]

I'm vt btw. Extreme value rule.

[Galron]

And I didn't give up on toogs. I was wondering why we weren't going after wheme when he was the one A50 was 100% sure was scum. At the time toog wasn't happening. A50 threw that tantrum, so I decided to sheep him on xlos. I wasn't really understanding why xlos and not wheme, and I wasn't convinced A50 was right on toog being town, but I've done the disregard A50 thing and the follow A50 thing and usually when I disregard him, I'm the one that's wrong and he's just more pissed off.

[Galron]

We don't launch math here, gg.

[MathBlade]

Math, why are you trusting so hard to defend me? Why are you so invested in getting Titus to strengthen her scum read on me? That's exactly what you're doing and it's scummy af. Set me up as scum in her eyes, strengthen that read for her, then the vote, gg. Same technique I saw you use at least twice since you've been back. Can't remember the game but one you were working on Drew or mena I think and ended up pulling a scum save that never should have happened. Here it's like deja Vu. You have no business trying to defend me. Let Titus come to her own conclusions. You planting your little seeds can stop.

See that’s the thing. I am not “defending you” in the traditional sense.

Titus and you both said I have. I said it’s not the smoking gun.

Making her elaborate helps me to read her to see if she actually believes what she is saying.

I use lots of techniques as scum and me being scum in the past is not an argument as to why I am scum now.

I think if you’re scum then it’s likely you think Wheme and I are the most likely elims.

You say you won’t vote DGB or Titus for two reasons (assuming you’re scum)
1) They are both town and if you can get them to do what you want.
2) One of them is your buddy.

I don’t see a town reason for deciding “I am going to sheep A50” today.

[Titus]

My theory:

Galron is lockscum because of the kills. While T3 never mentions Galron, both Murdercat and Jake's last mention of Galron is suspicion.

N1:
Murdercat was not likely shot for his townreads because he doesn't go into detail about his townreads.
This means he was killed for his role or his scumreads or unlimmable.
At no point did Murdercat slip he was a PR, so that's out.
Unlimmable is a thing, but there were other townies who were unlimmable. Murdercat would (in theory) be limmable if the right townies died. So I doubt for this reason.
This leaves Murdercat being killed for his scumreads.
Murdercat scumread A50, Galron, and Mathblade's slot (although Math wasn't in it yet).

This gives major scumpoints to Galron and Math.

N2

Why was T3 killed?

Two schools of thought here.

1) T3 was real claiming. This instantly clears DGB in my mind if this approach is adopted. I don't think scum!DGB kills town!T3 based on a roleclaim ever in that scenario. That leaves Galron, Wheme, and Math. Math would buy any claim in the thread and not consider it a joke. I don't know Galron well enough to think if he buys a claim but I think most players do. Wheme's the same. If this is the theory, then two of Wheme/Math/Galon are scum. Math and Galron appear again.

2) T3 was killed based on his reads. This narrows down the pool less, but is more consistent with the scumteam's play. Shooting T3 because he's the only slot that would townclear Wheme gives scum dramatically more control over the day play. That also means Wheme is town. That leaves Math/Galron/DGB as scum. There's the rub, Math/Galron again.

Night 3:

All our PRs had outed at this point, so Jake was not outed for his role.
Jake still had some miselimination potential. This is why his kill was much more shocking.
Thus, Jake was likely killed for the gamestate.
He's the only slot that objected to an A50 elimination. Securing that elimination fast means that scum essentially get three nightkills for the price of one.
That makes a Jake kill worth it.
Plus, it keeps a mostly wrong towncore (using town in the generic sense not saying the core is locktown) intact.

Night 4
Xlos was killed because unlimmable in lylo. This isn't rocketscience and eliminates no one.


So based on nightkills the favored team is Galron and Mathblade (T3 was killed based on role here), or DGB and Galron (T3 was killed for gamestate instead) or Math plus Galron (T3 was killed based on his Wheme townread).

Then we look at the gamestate.

Wheme's largely been silenced.
Toog roleblocked Galron who immediately voted him. It suggests Galron knew he was blocked, but obviously wasn't the scumkiller outright. If this is correct, scum!Galron is claiming a vig of somesort. 1 shot vig most likely. This would pocket Mathblade if he is town, but I don't think scum is mechanically smart enough to do that. It could be a coincidence, but I'm suspecting it isn't. Town had multiple investigatives, it would make sense that scum would too. Putting only one rolecop in the game to find a town rolecop, doctor, and cop makes no sense. If Galron is another investigative, he's shared no results and this much investigative power is a scumclaim between him and DGB if not both.

DGB's odd night doctor claim. It could be scum, but it effectively crumbed in its first post. This suggests it was an actual claim and not a fake. There's a possibility it could be a fake claim, but I doubt it.

DGB's claim was oddly resisted. This suggests one scum on and one scum off. Given almost all the off spaces are flipped town. This suggest Galron or Wheme scum. Again, Galron is back. The scum on the wagon would likely be Mathblade but it is possible we had both scum off given the massive town resistance. So the Math read is considerably weaker.

Overall, this leaves us with Galron as obvscum. Math as a likier partner and DGB and Wheme being outside shots (particularly if T3 was killed based on my theory).

Then we look at the early Toog vote. DGB was primed to vote Toog. I'd be voting there. Two votes. Galron may or may not be aware he was voted. He votes the Toog wagon as soon as possible for these reasons. When it's not the default elimination, he looks for a way off.

I rest my case.

[Galron]

How does anyone decide who is scummier between WhemeStar and Galron?

Which of us is townier? Can't you see that math and whene are the team? In fact math has been scummier than anyone the last two days. He isn't considering different points of view of different teams. He's creating doubt and wifom directed away from himself. Read his posts.

[MathBlade]

My theory:

Galron is lockscum because of the kills. While T3 never mentions Galron, both Murdercat and Jake's last mention of Galron is suspicion.

N1:
Murdercat was not likely shot for his townreads because he doesn't go into detail about his townreads.
This means he was killed for his role or his scumreads or unlimmable.

At no point did Murdercat slip he was a PR, so that's out.

<< Note my disagreeement here.

Unlimmable is a thing, but there were other townies who were unlimmable. Murdercat would (in theory) be limmable if the right townies died. So I doubt for this reason.
This leaves Murdercat being killed for his scumreads.
Murdercat scumread A50, Galron, and Mathblade's slot (although Math wasn't in it yet).

This gives major scumpoints to Galron and Math.

This is nothing new. I acknowledge I look bad if Murdercat was killed for reads. I just don’t think that was the case. I do not like how I have refuted this multiple times and people who you townread get this argument and you just ignore it

N2

Why was T3 killed?

Two schools of thought here.

1) T3 was real claiming. This instantly clears DGB in my mind if this approach is adopted. I don't think scum!DGB kills town!T3 based on a roleclaim ever in that scenario. That leaves Galron, Wheme, and Math. Math would buy any claim in the thread and not consider it a joke. I don't know Galron well enough to think if he buys a claim but I think most players do. Wheme's the same. If this is the theory, then two of Wheme/Math/Galon are scum. Math and Galron appear again.

You really really should see my role before making blanket statements like this

2) T3 was killed based on his reads. This narrows down the pool less, but is more consistent with the scumteam's play. Shooting T3 because he's the only slot that would townclear Wheme gives scum dramatically more control over the day play. That also means Wheme is town. That leaves Math/Galron/DGB as scum. There's the rub, Math/Galron again.

Why are you ignoring the fact T3’s flavor is similar to Nom’s? Why does this instantly clear DGB to you? This gives more questions than answers?

Night 3:

All our PRs had outed at this point, so Jake was not outed for his role.

All PRs had crumbed. I still am not outed but am functionally VT

Jake still had some miselimination potential. This is why his kill was much more shocking.
Thus, Jake was likely killed for the gamestate.
He's the only slot that objected to an A50 elimination. Securing that elimination fast means that scum essentially get three nightkills for the price of one.
That makes a Jake kill worth it.
Plus, it keeps a mostly wrong towncore (using town in the generic sense not saying the core is locktown) intact.

Again I disagree with this on why Jake was killed as discussed earlier

Night 4
Xlos was killed because unlimmable in lylo. This isn't rocketscience and eliminates no one.

Yay something I agree with!

So based on nightkills the favored team is Galron and Mathblade (T3 was killed based on role here), or DGB and Galron (T3 was killed for gamestate instead) or Math plus Galron (T3 was killed based on his Wheme townread).

Then we look at the gamestate.

Wheme's largely been silenced.

No he hasn’t? He’s been inactive.

Toog roleblocked Galron who immediately voted him. It suggests Galron knew he was blocked, but obviously wasn't the scumkiller outright. If this is correct, scum!Galron is claiming a vig of somesort. 1 shot vig most likely. This would pocket Mathblade if he is town, but I don't think scum is mechanically smart enough to do that. It could be a coincidence, but I'm suspecting it isn't. Town had multiple investigatives, it would make sense that scum would too. Putting only one rolecop in the game to find a town rolecop, doctor, and cop makes no sense.

Especially with my role Titus. This is why I think DGB+Wheme has to contain a scum

If Galron is another investigative, he's shared no results and this much investigative power is a scumclaim between him and DGB if not both.

DGB's odd night doctor claim. It could be scum, but it effectively crumbed in its first post. This suggests it was an actual claim and not a fake. There's a possibility it could be a fake claim, but I doubt it.

DGB's claim was oddly resisted. This suggests one scum on and one scum off. Given almost all the off spaces are flipped town. This suggest Galron or Wheme scum. Again, Galron is back. The scum on the wagon would likely be Mathblade but it is possible we had both scum off given the massive town resistance. So the Math read is considerably weaker.

Overall, this leaves us with Galron as obvscum. Math as a likier partner and DGB and Wheme being outside shots (particularly if T3 was killed based on my theory).

Then we look at the early Toog vote. DGB was primed to vote Toog. I'd be voting there. Two votes. Galron may or may not be aware he was voted. He votes the Toog wagon as soon as possible for these reasons. When it's not the default elimination, he looks for a way off.

I rest my case.

I get Galron scum or Wheme scum or maybe both but I think your case is fundamentally flawed.

[Titus]

@Math,

I see you undelined some things I will try and parse it but your method left it hard. Try breaking the post up into multiple quotes and replies.

You're also the last to claim
I'm VT.
Galron VT
Wheme, Informed Neighbor.
DGB, odd night cop.

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

[Titus]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

[MathBlade]

What if, wild guess, scum have a redirector/bus drivor?

That's something scum would say.

I don’t think so. I think Jake knows when to holster his trolling and when to town and I think I am starting to see it.

I just hope he can see what I can enable or could depending on how he sees English/history or whatever

This is where I said “Hey Jake I think you’re the vig”

Vigs have guns and can holster them.

Vig enabler

[MathBlade]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Ffs Titus this is not a normal

[WhemeStar]

Isn’t there a saying that when Titus makes sense they are scum or something

[Galron]

MathBlade+
Me the math loving person who apparently has all the value to the yard and makes all the theorems say what variables are enabled?

I am a vig enabler Titus. This is my confusion.

I have been trying to die for a few days now so people see why the fuck I am so confused as to what the fuck you’re doing.

I practically have screamed my role for multiple game days now

Well here's DGB's theory that every normal has to have a misleading role.

Not a normal