Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[Amy Dunne]

Yin also told Pooky that there were an even number of scum in Pooky/Clidd/Tweetie, which contradicts his Tanner/Chara reads.

0 is an even number technically.

Right, good catch then.

[Amy Dunne]

like I just thought about what I'd be doing as scum and it's definitely not trying to keep Ydra!town from leaving.

because

If I am scum, all I have to do is get my partner out of this hellhole and I can probably win 1v1 against anyone here in the endgame

except

for Ydrasse.

She is Amy's #1 townread, I'm #2, it makes absolutely 0 sense for me to keep her in the game to potentially kick my ass at the endgame when I can just let her walk out of the game and look good for it.

Ydrasse's arguments here don't seem purely logical as much as she's being attacked

and it makes sense for her attacker to be scum

. like yes, i agree with you it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to pick this fight as scum, but i don't think she's the type (or is in the mindset to right now) to look at this from the objective outsider view right in the moment rather than "Pooky is pushing me and i'm town, therefore he's scum".

but a lot of this comes from, i really don't think scum Ydrasse takes the angles she's taken this game as scum? i don't want to be like, i'm not saying she's done anything i'd find actually objectionable as scum, but early game when she was arguing for Ircher town and i voted Ircher because of a joke Norwee made, she was genuinely upset because she thought i was voting him just to spite her or something. i don't think she decides to just fake that feeling as scum. it's the same with her interactions with Robert.
i don't know Ydrasse so well as a player as much as as a person, but when i have seen her as scum she very much didn't wear her heart on her sleeve like that. she's not incapable of AtEing as scum but it had a very different feeling to it.

I’m starting to have doubts on you now Chara because of this - not for your Ydra defense but for your Pooky shade, so rn I’m thinking Flea is probably not only town but may possibly be in this game, what Drusilla was to Menagerie.

I’m starting to think Flea may be right and we should listen to fae.

[Amy Dunne]

VOTE: Morning Tweet

VOTE: Ydrasse

Occasionally I have decent reads that are inexplicable to the point where it looks like tmi, so /shrug.

Also:

VOTE: PookyTheMagicalBear

Looking more towny in the last pages.

I’m also starting to think Clidd is probably town. He’s voted for not one, not two but for three players I tr now. Kind’ve a bizarre strategy if he’s scum.

[Chara]

i'm... not calling Pooky scum there? i'm talking about Ydrasse's perspective, if i thought Pooky was scum for any of that i would have said so. i think his work here is towny actually.

[Chara]

can we not vote the people who townread me out first please :/

also uhh. was busy with other things tonight. definitely doing stuff soon still.

Almost like it's scuppering your chance of winning ain't it. You're suddenly more desperate to get out of here.

Pull up a spike, we're staying.

not to be Like That, but Tanner's blatant "please vote me out asap" is kind've +town for me. i'm already confident in that read but i'm trying to imagine scum Tanner thinking it's a good idea to make this post.

How is it? How is it remotely a good post?
That is scum 100%.

i think scum Tanner is more likely to think before posting that, while town Tanner lets the "oh god what if they don't vote me through" feeling show more easily. it's not a good look as scum but it's relatable from a town pov for me, i get stressed about the same thing.

[Amy Dunne]

like you keep attributing bad motivations towards me and claim that scum!me would actually come after town!you this early in the endgame.

it makes no sense.

I am a very strategic player as scum. I do not target people that are top tier townreads, I target LHFs that are easy to isolate. Especially in a Trust Fall style game where you are trying to "remove" townies.

My take is Ydra is likely being pocketed.

Having rolled scum with her, I don’t think scum!her hard rams infinity lim through, knowing about the reveal. She is much to savy as scum to make it that obvious.

I think tvt and you need to reread this game with the understanding that scum was not only trying to get two of their own limmed, they were also playing to look good in the reveal. I actually not convinced that Tanner pushed Robert that hard as town. If I’m scum here that’s what I would do, to look good post reveal. Which is also why I think you’re wrong about Ydrasse. She wasn’t trying to look good for reveal and I think she would absolutely do that as scum and hard ramming Infinity wagon through the way she did, looks terrible opticswise, which is why I sincerely doubt scum!Ydrasse does that.

[Ydrasse]

you think who’s pocketing me, tanner??

[Ydrasse]

also @pooky sorry for last night; by the end of us talking my migraine was to the point that it made me sick but i also don’t know how to just not reply when we’re going back and forth like that so it made it a bit like “oh my god i have to keep going going going”. i was the one who forgot that we weren’t playing regular mafia lmao.

[Ydrasse]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

[Amy Dunne]

i'm... not calling Pooky scum there? i'm talking about Ydrasse's perspective, if i thought Pooky was scum for any of that i would have said so. i think his work here is towny actually.

Okay then, you could still be town but the only reason I hard tr Tanner was because he was first on Infinity wagon but that isn’t town indicative due to reveal.

I’ve never ever played with scum!Datisi but I’ve never been really suspicious of him in any of my games where he’s been town and at a gut level, I am very suspicious of him here. It’s of course possible I’m wrong but him being so hellbent on being the first one sentenced or not wanting us to lim Ydrasse because she’s tr him, just worry me.

I think as long as we lim Pooky, Tweetie Ydrasse in whatever order then find one of the two ast townies - probably Flea, is safest, we’re likely to win this. I think Infinty’s ISO with Clidd reads somewhat antipartnery but with three town out, we’re in an extremely good position.

I feel very confident that all three of Pooky, Tweetie, Ydrasse are town here.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

We can do Tweetie first since she's the one everyone agrees is townie if you would like?

my list right now is:

Tweet - Tanner
Flea - Chara
Ydrasse - Clidd

still haven't finished re-reading, I hope I'll feel better about Ydra after re-reading Day 2/3.

[Chara]

i just don't think Tanner is scum. this seems ridiculous to me. he's one of the few reads i'm actually confident in rn, and i'm not confident in a whole lot at the moment. i can see why he's nervous. he's expected he can get out of this game, he doesn't want to be the reason for the loss, he's highly townread, but this Yin criminal thing keeps getting brought up as evidence and he knows it's wrong, and i know it's wrong. i don't know Datisi that well, but i absolutely know the feeling of feeling like you're being incorrectly read as rown and the game is about to get 10x harder. his play here is so reminiscent of Chara's Folly, i thought it at the beginning and it's only gotten stronger, right down to the spiralling of confidence right at the end. and unless the team is exactly Tanner/clidd i also don't see why he goes back and finds reason to defend him, either. which i guess is possible? it's not a reason i think Tanner is town, it's just something to note i guess.

point being i don't think scum Tanner does this. i think he's highly townread, he's happy with the status quo, he doesn't make multiple posts about wanting to be sentenced asap.

pedit: i would be okay with Pooky or Ydrasse today, if we aren't doing Tanner.

pedit x2: :<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

ok but you should recognize I don't have any necessity to sink you.

I only need to keep

one

townie behind to win if I'm scum. I wouldn't target the highest UTR, that makes honestly no sense as a play to me, especially one who is a top townread of the IC.

That's not wifom to me, that's just playing the game correctly.

Amy knows because she has seen me play trust fall, my entire game plan was making people not trust Jake the Wolf and trying to get the "obvtown" people paired off early.

I'm not stupid enough to attack you as scum unless

I have no other choice

[Chara]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

if you're sick, i think it's better to rest and worry about this later. this is still just a game.

[Amy Dunne]

you think who’s pocketing me, tanner??

Possibly Chara as well? Idk but if you’re tr scum, why wouldn’t they be pocketing you?

Tanner is just too eager to be first lim and like in Trust Fall, why is town!him in such a rush? So rn I’m thinking Pooky, you, Tweetie, Flea are most likely to be town. Still unsure between Clidd and Chara. He just seems extremely desperate to be limmed and I am not convinced as Pooky apparently is that his push on Robert is town indicative, specifically because of the reveal. And also recall how Nakata easily got onboard with that as well.

The best way for scum to play this, is to hardpush a miselim and the two surviving scum get tr for it post-reveal. Nakata tried to push Tweetie, me and you but as we know now, not Infinity and I think both scum probably townspewed Tweetie.

[Ydrasse]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

ok but you should recognize I don't have any necessity to sink you.

I only need to keep

one

townie behind to win if I'm scum. I wouldn't target the highest UTR, that makes honestly no sense as a play to me, especially one who is a top townread of the IC.

That's not wifom to me, that's just playing the game correctly.

Amy knows because she has seen me play trust fall, my entire game plan was making people not trust Jake the Wolf and trying to get the "obvtown" people paired off early.

I'm not stupid enough to attack you as scum unless

I have no other choice

and when i was replying my viewpoint was that your partner was potentially getting iced out; even if you get through you still needed to make room for them and one option is to create doubt because even if amy thinks something you still need a wagon blah blah. in my head it was like, pooky is doing these weird things and he’s trying to get support now on his not-townread partner to get them voted in today while he can or something by taking down the cred of me

[Amy Dunne]

i just don't think Tanner is scum. this seems ridiculous to me. he's one of the few reads i'm actually confident in rn, and i'm not confident in a whole lot at the moment. i can see why he's nervous. he's expected he can get out of this game, he doesn't want to be the reason for the loss, he's highly townread, but this Yin criminal thing keeps getting brought up as evidence and he knows it's wrong, and i know it's wrong. i don't know Datisi that well, but i absolutely know the feeling of feeling like you're being incorrectly read as rown and the game is about to get 10x harder. his play here is so reminiscent of Chara's Folly, i thought it at the beginning and it's only gotten stronger, right down to the spiralling of confidence right at the end. and unless the team is exactly Tanner/clidd i also don't see why he goes back and finds reason to defend him, either. which i guess is possible? it's not a reason i think Tanner is town, it's just something to note i guess.

point being i don't think scum Tanner does this. i think he's highly townread, he's happy with the status quo, he doesn't make multiple posts about wanting to be sentenced asap.

pedit: i would be okay with Pooky or Ydrasse today, if we aren't doing Tanner.

pedit x2: :<

What is your issue with Tweetie? Why is she scum?

[Ydrasse]

if me and pooky are both town fighting i’m going to be zzzzz post game

[Ydrasse]

before anyone goes “NO RUSHING” i am not trying to rush here but amy, could you pick either me or pooky to leave today? if you townread us both and think we are tvt i’d rather have it settled so it doesn’t eat up everything, i’m not sold on pooky being locktown but i’ll vote him if you’re absolutely confident

[Chara]

Amy, i don't agree that scum necessarily made the "best" choices. i agree they would definitely be thinking about how it looks in the endgame, but it's still against their wincon to have those town miselims actually go through. Tanner pushing Robert as hard as he did, and Robert actually going through, is extremely significant to me. sure, it makes him look better in the endgame, but because of that we have more wiggle room in being wrong. it's a big risk to take even with the knowledge that scum needs to be townread to win.

scum needs to be townread to win a normal game too. that's why they bus. but they still need the miselims to win. i don't think it's right to completely discount that aspect.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't really want to leave until I get 4 townies out first though because my leaving doesn't really "win" us the game.

You can hammer-test me at E-1 and I won't self hammer if you need to "conftown my slot" but I don't think it makes sense to silence me early.

Let's just work on who we agree is town for now?

I'm happy with both Tanner and Tweetie leaving first.

[Ydrasse]

will you at least give me some good faith and work with me through things?

[Amy Dunne]

i’m willing to be open to you being town but last night it felt like you were trying to sink me out of necessity. it’s wifom how you would handle being scum but it also just frustrated me so yeah. if you want to pow wow i’m not 100% (let’s go migraines not going away wooooo) but i’ll try to be less *hand wave*

ok but you should recognize I don't have any necessity to sink you.

I only need to keep

one

townie behind to win if I'm scum. I wouldn't target the highest UTR, that makes honestly no sense as a play to me, especially one who is a top townread of the IC.

That's not wifom to me, that's just playing the game correctly.

Amy knows because she has seen me play trust fall, my entire game plan was making people not trust Jake the Wolf and trying to get the "obvtown" people paired off early.

I'm not stupid enough to attack you as scum unless

I have no other choice

and when i was replying my viewpoint was that your partner was potentially getting iced out; even if you get through you still needed to make room for them and one option is to create doubt because even if amy thinks something you still need a wagon blah blah. in my head it was like, pooky is doing these weird things and he’s trying to get support now on his not-townread partner to get them voted in today while he can or something by taking down the cred of me

When I was in tm game, Pooky (my teammate) laid out something very similar in our team Discord of why he was so sure FL and not Norwee was scum. I think the difference here is that he’s not taking into account that scum was playing both to get two of their own limmed but to also look good post-reveal. I could of course possibly be wrong on Tanner but that’s probably what I would do as scum here, so his reasons for tr Tanner based on that are nia and he’s not recognizing that it looks really bad for you to have rammed Infinity wagon through, which why I seriously doubt scum!you would do this. Besides you don’t give me any suspicious vibes like you did in both FL v Hectic and Menagerie, so I think he’s wrong because I was also hard tr both of you by play.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I really don't think Tanner was thinking about his endgame victory condition when he was pushing Robert hard, I've re-read nearly all of Day 1 now and he feels to me like very geniunely invested in yeeting Robert straight out of the game because he geniunely believes Robert to be scum and he's pulling his hair out mad that people are against him like a wall and he doesn't know why.

I really don't think Tanner is capable of faking that much fustration or deep conviction in yeeting a someone that is LHF town when the victory condition for scum is to keep the LHF towns in this game until the second half of the game.

[Ydrasse]

on that note i ate a sandwich feel sick again and have to go back to work WOOOOO

if i don’t show up tonight i’m dead from whatever is plaguing me