Newbie 2073: Parfait (Over)

[T3]

I've rolled scum in newbies more than I've rolled town in newbies though.

[GeneralWu]

Just curious, how did you choose your username of T3?

"T3" sounds fun to say.

[T3]

Just curious, how did you choose your username of T3?

"T3" sounds fun to say.

I was thinking "T3RMINATOR" but it was taken.

[Val89]

I've rolled scum in newbies more than I've rolled town in newbies though.

2070 - VT (Fake crumbed/claimed tracker)
2068 - Mafia Goon (Fake claimed JK)
2066 - Mafia Goon
2065 - Mafia Goon (Fake crumbed tracker)
2063 - Town Mason
2063 - Mafia Rolecop (fake crumbed mason)
2061 - VT - (No crumb)
2059 - VT - (No crumb)
2057 - Town Jailkeeper (No crumb)

Thats 5 town games, 4 scum games. You would have to be including rolling scum in this game for that to have a chance to be true.

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: SavetheDragons

I dislike eliminating shwinniebego here for a few reasons.
1. The first is that I find it likely that if they are a town, they are probably a PR ( or doing some WIFOM thing). I would not want to out them if they are so.
2. I think that their flip doesn't give us much information. Either they are a town that has very much struggled adapting to the meta on this site, or they flip scum, which would be a very attractive bus on a new player. Either way we don't learn much about other players.
3. I honestly don't scumread them that much, they seem too apart from the norm of mafia games like this, so I think their behavior is NAI.
4. I feel that their input will generate discussion that could end up being useful to town.

Instead I feel like StD is a better vote, they overall don't provide much to town.

Shwinniebego, you should post your input if you feel like you need to say something, it will both help you get better and may help town.

I would like StD to post their reads and contribute a bit more substance. It doesn't really matter if you can't post often, but at least try to post something that is useful when you do.

And T3 appears to be avoiding confronting the accusation made at him by Val89, although the accusation doesn't hold a whole lot of weight imo.

[Val89]

I realise that I've ommited 2069 from that #278 list, because it was ongoing at the time I drew the table up; but that's another town!T3 (Mason) game, so the point stands.

[Val89]

after shwinnie has posted more they seem very untrusting. (i.e. they only had 2 TR and 6 SR)
This feels a lot more townie than scummy

If we are talking about 172, I think you might have miscounted a bit, there. I see 3 townreads (GeneralWu, Navigator and myself), one null (StD) and 4 scumreads of varying degree.

In any case, why would you consider someone having a larger number of scumreads than townreads as being more likely to be town than scum? I ask because I am inclined to think the opposite, so it would be interesting to hear your thought process on this.

MegAzumarill, you might have missed this one on the first pass, but would you mind indulging me?

[shwinnebego]

VOTE: SavetheDragons

I dislike eliminating shwinniebego here for a few reasons.
1. The first is that I find it likely that if they are a town, they are probably a PR ( or doing some WIFOM thing). I would not want to out them if they are so.
2. I think that their flip doesn't give us much information. Either they are a town that has very much struggled adapting to the meta on this site, or they flip scum, which would be a very attractive bus on a new player. Either way we don't learn much about other players.
3. I honestly don't scumread them that much, they seem too apart from the norm of mafia games like this, so I think their behavior is NAI.
4. I feel that their input will generate discussion that could end up being useful to town.

Instead I feel like StD is a better vote, they overall don't provide much to town.

Shwinniebego, you should post your input if you feel like you need to say something, it will both help you get better and may help town.

I would like StD to post their reads and contribute a bit more substance. It doesn't really matter if you can't post often, but at least try to post something that is useful when you do.

And T3 appears to be avoiding confronting the accusation made at him by Val89, although the accusation doesn't hold a whole lot of weight imo.

Thanks for the refreshingly charitable read on my behavior - I appreciate it Clearly I did not instantly vibe with the meta on this site, but as you suggest my intention is not to troll, to upset people, or to ruin the game/diminish the fun that others are having. If my behavior has had that impact, I do apologize.

I'll provide a bit more analysis now - I hope it is helpful! Let me know if you have further questions (this goes for anyone)

General Wu plays confidently, and attracted a quick pileup of votes, many of which melted away. My sense is genuinely that a quick pile-on followed by a quick melt-away is indeed suspicious, as it speaks to some coordinated action behind the scenes. While my specific sus on catboi for unvoting when I threatened to hammer was largely sneered at as irrational, trollish, and inattentive to the longer-term dynamics of a game like this (namely, that we lose information by truncating Day 1 prematurely), I maintain that the overall dynamic that I pointed out - whether or not we agree that catboi in particular ought to be the target of suspicion that emerges from said dynamic - is valid, and merits attention. Moreover, I also maintain that without the legitimate threat of a hammer on a player, vote pressure relatively early on during Day 1 becomes meaningless, and so I do not apologize for my jocular hammer threat, nor do I concede that it was unambiguously a silly thing to proffer. I do not see tremendous value in debating this exact matter further, but I hope this makes sense to at least some of you!

Val has been doing an impressive amount of leg work in digging up meta-evidence from prior games. This may be typical play for Val. On the one hand this level of effort may prove useful to town down the road. On the other hand, this style of "data-driven" meta argumentation is easy to get away with fudging for scum (who's gonna be arsed to fact check, especially late game?) Either way, the promise of this working in our favor in the long run makes Val an unattractive quorum.

navigator has been making arguments and reads, but I cannot nail down consistent threads from what they post. In this context, I think that navigator would be a great quorum because they have generated a lot of engagement with others. I do think that they have been waffly, too, which can be an evil-tell.

T3 has been in the cross-hairs and would make a high-info quorum regardless of alignment. I do think they are reasonably likely to actually flip evil too, but there's a lot of meta I don't know

SavetheDragons has my favorite playstyle among you bunch, and seems to be among the chillest. Not alignment indicative, but certainly improving my quality of life in this thread with their presence! I wouldn't qanna quorum

Meg - seems earnest in hunting, but I don't have a storng read. I would put them in a similar bucket as navigator in terms of how much info we'd get from a quorum, and I could get behind it

catboi - I don't really feel like talking about catboi at the moment because they have been pretty mean to me, but I actually would guess they are town.

[Val89]

Scwinnebego, I can't help but point out your vote isn't serving much purpose resting where it is if you have decided catboi is probably town.

[Roden]

T3 isn't really fighting for his life here, I don't think he expects to be today's elim. So you'll likely not get a satisfying response from him, Val. Unless you get a wagon going of course, but tbh I've moved my vote around enough as it is.

I'm more interested in a Wu or Shwinn flip at this point. Wu didn't start seriously playing until their life was on the line, which felt more like a panicked scum reaction than a townie one. And other than Shwinn acting anti-town, he never responded to my accusation and isn't including me in his reads. Makes me feel like he wants to look like he's distancing himself from me so that I look suspicious after his flip. I've already been noted for bussing and it honestly looks like he's playing into that.

[Roden]

Additionally, I do have reservations about T3, Catboi, and StD, but it's nothing as substantial as how I feel about Wu and Shwinn, and I don't expect it to go down well if I try to build scum cases against five different people. So I'll stick with Wu and Schwinn for now unless one of the other three do something to ping me.

[shwinnebego]

Scwinnebego, I can't help but point out your vote isn't serving much purpose resting where it is if you have decided catboi is probably town.

Good point! VOTE: navigatorv

[shwinnebego]

T3 isn't really fighting for his life here, I don't think he expects to be today's elim. So you'll likely not get a satisfying response from him, Val. Unless you get a wagon going of course, but tbh I've moved my vote around enough as it is.

I'm more interested in a Wu or Shwinn flip at this point. Wu didn't start seriously playing until their life was on the line, which felt more like a panicked scum reaction than a townie one. And other than Shwinn acting anti-town, he never responded to my accusation and isn't including me in his reads. Makes me feel like he wants to look like he's distancing himself from me so that I look suspicious after his flip. I've already been noted for bussing and it honestly looks like he's playing into that.

Nah I just forgot to mention you and didn't notice any of that bus conversation stuff.

my read on Roden: Roden reacted rather strongly to my playstyle (along with some others). Roden also has attracted a decent amount of sus. Someone else can look up the vote flow (not sure how to do that, how have votes stacked nad unstacked on Roden?) but I think this could be a decent quorum in terms of info. On the other hand for some reason most info pertaining to Roden has kinda gone in one ear and out the other for me.

[T3]

I've rolled scum in newbies more than I've rolled town in newbies though.

2070 - VT (Fake crumbed/claimed tracker)
2068 - Mafia Goon (Fake claimed JK)
2066 - Mafia Goon
2065 - Mafia Goon (Fake crumbed tracker)
2063 - Town Mason
2063 - Mafia Rolecop (fake crumbed mason)
2061 - VT - (No crumb)
2059 - VT - (No crumb)
2057 - Town Jailkeeper (No crumb)

Thats 5 town games, 4 scum games. You would have to be including rolling scum in this game for that to have a chance to be true.

2057 2059 and 2061 I was a fresh newb straight from Epicmafia.

[shwinnebego]

how do you see the vote tally?

[Val89]

The mod usually posts it on each pagetop they grab.

You should check I haven't made an error before relying on this, but it looks like this to me at this moment in time:

shwinnebego (3): navigatorv, Roden, Save The Dragons (

E-2

)
T3 (2): Val89, catboi
GeneralWu (1): T3
Navigatorv (1): shwinnebego
Save The Dragons(1): MegAzumarill

Not Voting: GeneralWu

[GeneralWu]

VOTE: SavetheDragons

I dislike eliminating shwinniebego here for a few reasons.
1. The first is that I find it likely that if they are a town, they are probably a PR ( or doing some WIFOM thing). I would not want to out them if they are so.
2. I think that their flip doesn't give us much information. Either they are a town that has very much struggled adapting to the meta on this site, or they flip scum, which would be a very attractive bus on a new player. Either way we don't learn much about other players.
3. I honestly don't scumread them that much, they seem too apart from the norm of mafia games like this, so I think their behavior is NAI.
4. I feel that their input will generate discussion that could end up being useful to town.

Instead I feel like StD is a better vote, they overall don't provide much to town.

Shwinniebego, you should post your input if you feel like you need to say something, it will both help you get better and may help town.

I would like StD to post their reads and contribute a bit more substance. It doesn't really matter if you can't post often, but at least try to post something that is useful when you do.

And T3 appears to be avoiding confronting the accusation made at him by Val89, although the accusation doesn't hold a whole lot of weight imo.

So how did you feel that shwinnie's input will generate discussion that could end up being useful to town? Before you made this post, I don't think shwinnie posted much content or gave many reasons for his reads.

[MegAzumarill]

after shwinnie has posted more they seem very untrusting. (i.e. they only had 2 TR and 6 SR)
This feels a lot more townie than scummy

If we are talking about 172, I think you might have miscounted a bit, there. I see 3 townreads (GeneralWu, Navigator and myself), one null (StD) and 4 scumreads of varying degree.

In any case, why would you consider someone having a larger number of scumreads than townreads as being more likely to be town than scum? I ask because I am inclined to think the opposite, so it would be interesting to hear your thought process on this.

MegAzumarill, you might have missed this one on the first pass, but would you mind indulging me?

Yeah I had read this, but forgot about before I had a chance to post.
The point I was trying to make, is it is natural to be untrusting as town. (as you do not know anyone's alignment) At least at first, it is part of the reason suspicion was placed on T3 at first as well (him being very trusting of a different player for not a lot of reason) Trust is something you have to earn from a townie, regardless of your alignment.
Generally as scum you have an agenda, you decide when to push who and for what reason in advance. You don't usually call out half the town as likely evil. It's not that scum never scumreads a lot of people early on (it can be pretty effective at instilling disruption), but in my experience it happens more to townies.
I also recognize that my playstyle may indeed come across as suspicious to someone looking in.

[catboi]

Instead I feel like StD is a better vote, they overall don't provide much to town.

This is a really thin reason for a vote this far into the day. He has stated reads on a number of players, even if they didn't have much elaboration on them. Do you think his actual content is scummy?

[MegAzumarill]

Instead I feel like StD is a better vote, they overall don't provide much to town.

This is a really thin reason for a vote this far into the day. He has stated reads on a number of players, even if they didn't have much elaboration on them. Do you think his actual content is scummy?

Not that the content is particularly scummy, I mainly am asking for him to post some reasonings with his reads, or in general just some more analysis. And I don't really expect the vote to go anywhere, anyway. The main scummy part is the lack of evidence they seem to want to put out.

[catboi]

From observation that feels like it's largely his playstyle. I don't think it's town/scum-indicative either way. I don't mind asking him to explain things you want clarified, of course, I just think that "lack of evidence" is, in and of itself, not really scummy from him, odd as it may seem.

[Save The Dragons]

i'm not big on long posts but every once in a while i'll pull something out of my butt

[shwinnebego]

i'm not big on long posts but every once in a while i'll pull something out of my butt

You're the best poster in this thread as far as I'm concerned, regardless of your alignment! I commend your playstyle, keep it up.

[GeneralWu]

i'm not big on long posts but every once in a while i'll pull something out of my butt

You're the best poster in this thread as far as I'm concerned, regardless of your alignment! I commend your playstyle, keep it up.

Now this post seems like an attempt at pocketing.

[T3]

shwinn is that TSBTS Day 1 mislim that's in like every newbie.