Silent Star 4: Yin and Yang

[pj harvey dent]

¶

Votecount 4.8

[2] Ydrasse:

Flea The Magician, Ydrasse

[2] Tanner:

Morning Tweet, Chara

[1] PookyTheMagicalBear:

clidd

[3] Not Voting:

PookyTheMagicalBear, Tanner, Amy Dunne

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to sentence. If there is no majority by the deadline, plurality will decide.

The deadline is in (expired on 2021-07-25 12:06:58).

Joint moderator ISO.

[Flea The Magician]

i know scum!me likes to meme-openwolf sometimes but come on that is too much even for me

most likely town

unless we're living in a fucked up world

:

- ydrasse.

also when i opened my iso earlier when i was looking for my older posts re ydra's reads, i found this gem and lmfao if she's scum

ok i'm off fr

Then there's this "defence" of "oh shit I got caught"

[Flea The Magician]

By PoE the less towny in my eyes is flea, but fae isn't scumposting so not sure where I'm supposed to look.

i'm the one never getting removed from this pit, we have an error range of 1. That is now me. This game will reach F3.

[Flea The Magician]

I need to double check my working on that one. but you get my point.

[Flea The Magician]

I sympathize with Tanner's recent engagement and internal frustration at not being townread as he thinks he should be (I've had similar episodes in the past, but I've expressed more anger than frustration).

from 1 player, literally from just me. he's basically a UTR that I can see.

[Flea The Magician]

I think "Hectic told us the names of all the scum through a simple QnA" is somewhat insulting to him as a mod and not my first inclination

I really fail to see what the game is if you dont even have to play mafia, ya know? all the other mechanics would be wasted.

Plus, if you were playing more you could see why Tanmer is 99% town

Occams Razor is an amazing trick.

In DnD I've stumped a player group for THIRTY MINUTES just because a door had runes on it that translated to "pull" - they thought it was magical and warded.

At LARP I've given the players a simple cipher and the code to break it, it took them an hour because they didn't trust it. "It's too easy and its you Flea."

Hell it even stumped me recently in Pokémon Tabletop.

"You're a ghost type, aren't you Aki. I've seen the power you hex maniacs wield. Knock my hat off my head - and I will help you"

I literally just had to go and knock it off, i didn't because I don't have a move that allows it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

AHAHAHAHAHA

DO YOU REMEMBER THIS POST TANNER!??!



W I L D

Saw your post on the PEdit pooks, looks like you've done some of the work for me.

I mean I really really really really really doubt that Scum!Datisi throws the setup out there as a joke guess/speculation cuz that would be a spicey as fuck move that I don't think he has the audacity for?

[Flea The Magician]

Pooky whats my scumrange?

What would surprise you for me to pull as scum?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Nothing would surprise me from scum you

[Flea The Magician]

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that, honestly.

Especially as I'm about to go deep into my scum meta.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you know I want to help you get out if you're actually town here right?

this is really not helping with my paranoia >.<

[Flea The Magician]

Pooky if you're not consistently paranoid of me, I'm doing this wrong. <3

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

-.-

i just want to win flea

[Flea The Magician]

So does everyone, the means they do it, however, tells a lot about them.

I'm digging through tanners ISO between spacing the fuck out and trying to keep my water and salt levels up (UK is having a heatwave, we're at 82f with 50-60% humidity, we ain't built for this weather) and I've spent the past week in a state of heat exhaustion.

Think about it Pooky, why would townTanner be so desperate to get out of the pit? Why so reactive to me pushing him when he's a UTR?

His early game is weak, so now we're late game he should in theory be in his element, why not help town sort out who to put out instead of just trying to get out?

Why has he set up to discredit yin from the get go?

[Flea The Magician]

Why is Tanner so scared of one person? A person who has been ignored and placed aside as someone to ignore by the bulk of the game?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

he's not very good at risk assessment and he's scared of his own shadow (sorry love you dats)

[Flea The Magician]

To be that bad and that paranoid to want out of the game when I've not even warmed up though?

Pooks you're one of the most paranoid players I know, Why aren't you paranoid around Tanner?

[Flea The Magician]

quick maths, this started at 4vs9.

2 and 1 gone.
2 vs 7.
2 removed from wincon.

2 vs 5(+1). We need 4 correct eliminations, we can be wrong once and remove scum, we can also have a member of town stay behind.

I've already declared I'm the town staying behind - I know I'm not townread enough to even consider being a successful elimination.

Even when Tanner flips red, Chara still has to go on and disprove me against Yin, and the attitude of this game states it will be successful in this.

Why is Tanner prioritising their own removal now over town wincon?

[Flea The Magician]

maths did wrong.

4 against 9, 2 and 1 elimed
2 against 8. 1 detonated and 1 removed from pool.
2 against 6. 4 town eliminations required.
2 against 2 is the optimal endgame state.
1 against 2 is the suboptimal endgame state.

Meaning we have 1 misyeet but 2 town who can stay behind.

[Flea The Magician]

Amy cannot be sentenced. For me right now, I want at least Me, Chara and Tanner left until last. 1 other town with Amy makes it F5.

No matter who we send, as long as thats the plan, we will get green. I am 100% on this. Too confident for town, absolutely. Do I care? no.

[Morning Tweet]

Lol at the runes translating to pull

I disagree with you assessment of Tanner then, his play has pretty consistently been towny to me. We'll find out who is right then you can call the shots if he's scum tho

[Flea The Magician]

What reason do you have to believe I'm wrong tweetie?

[Tanner]

i just woke up from another nap and will be out wandering the streets soon but will respond to a few things while i'm here:

i love flea's "town!tanner has no reason to be nervous here" because apparently there's only one person pushing me and nobody is listening to fae. first of all, you still know nothing about me or my emotions. but going by your logic... why would that make scum!tanner care? i'm apparently the utr here with eVerYOnE wanting me out. apparently i'm that genius scum mastermind who's managed to fool everyone here. what makes you think i lose my shit over *you*? or waste efforts pretending that i do instead of doing some fake solving before getting spared?

also, conveniently leaving out that amy thinks i'm scum. "everyone other than me thinks he's town" is a lie.

oh and nice attempt to change what I said. I never said survivalistic.

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

oh my apologies,

survivalist

i know scum!me likes to meme-openwolf sometimes but come on that is too much even for me

most likely town

unless we're living in a fucked up world

:

- ydrasse.

also when i opened my iso earlier when i was looking for my older posts re ydra's reads, i found this gem and lmfao if she's scum

ok i'm off fr

Then there's this "defence" of "oh shit I got caught"

ok so by your logic, i'm scum who *very consciously* made 1402 where i basically reveal the whole setup... and then i go "oh shit" when i get caught? like, do you seriously think scum!me is so audacious to make a post revealing the setup, but then so stupid to not even prepare myself for what to respond if someone sees it? or do you think i forgot about making it? because my memory is much better than that.

i'm slowly starting to believe that flea cannot genuinely be this tunneled and [things i will not say to not get banned] to be betting the whole game on "yin tells us the scumteam lol"

because funnily enough, this is something that i definitely would've done with robert here as scum - scumread him during Phase One, but never actually offer any good reasons that would genuinely get him killed, then once it's in Stage Two, i get to force all my energy in screaming how he's scum. because has fae done literally anything else? despite apparently having a plan for when faer theory turns out to be wrong?

also the "tanner prioritizing his own removal over town wincon" is ???? i am t o w n. not wanting yourself voted out in normal lylo is playing to your wincon. wanting yourself to ascend here is playing to your wincon. like. the fuck.

[Flea The Magician]

3000 posts, and 3 phases ago.

*slow clap*

Good defence. Impressive even. Scummy worthy maybe?

I know you're capable of being a balls to the wall type of player, and yea you said yourself you're a meme-y openwolf.
Hell I've pull this shit before. And it literally just lol it away, you don't prepare a response because then that's just emotion less. You have to respond with emotion attached or people catch on.

You know how tunnelled I can be, You know I'm not even getting warmed up.

Don't hide behind a censor, because that just tells me you're filling blank space. Either say it, or don't.

Town wincon is currently town gets 4 of their own removed. So whats wrong in joining me in Yolo?
Not just getting yourself removed.
Scum's is, scums is both get yeet. Which requires you getting the early train out, doesn't it?
You know I'm coming >:)
After all, what have you got to lose my humouring me? I can't push for your elimination after all, can I?

[Flea The Magician]

Time to dip into my scum meta.

---

Spoiler: Long boi.

fLEA VOTE scum rn

VOTE: Tanner

that's wrong. she said vote

scum

, silly!

in all seriousness, i am interested in the thoughts behind this take.

Looking back at this I'm cracking up.
A joke vote in response to a joke post and the initial waves of worry are crashing out.

Yin hasn't posted yet despite being asked questions. What do people think about that?

was there a point to asking this?

slight town ping on robert, mostly because his intro gives me a vibe similar to my own. ircher feels tonally scummy but i'm not too interested in pushing that right now. if anyone who's town on ydrasse could let me know why, that would be cool.

hmm.

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

(the first person to say "wow, are you scum trying to townslip???" is getting slapped. alright thanks.)

The self-awareness is real.

Tanner: your early game kind of pinged, though 192 reminds me of... i want to say Chara's Folly Tanner? but it occurs to me i don't think i read the end of that game and i don't remember if you were scum.

my early game is weak (i cannot find my way around prolonged fluff posting / rvs, though that is nai as both scum! and town!me are awkward as hell there), so that's not surprising. and i was town in chara's folly.

And yet what you've given so far sounds so confident and active, at least on a surface level.

1. awkward joke trying to get Ydrasse to talk about scum!norwee.
2. challenging Pooky's town read on a player because it's a bit early.
3. prompting and encouraging Satoru to talk about a scum read on Flea.

1. it was not a joke. i thought ydrasse's early vote on norwee was serious (at least as much as an early vote like that can be). when she told me she wouldn't seriously vote norwee for the reason she gave, i just told her i didn't know that.
2. what pooky said - this is a datisi alt. (though i kinda wished to not have it mentioned that fast...)
3. yeah. i was getting scumpings on flea. i wanted to talk about it with another player who said they got the same pings.

Three things meant to erode town reads and promote scum reads, because there's nothing that scum hates more than townies with under-developped scum reads on other townies, and strong town reads on townies.

If Tanner flips scum, then Norwee is town, Datisi is town, and Flea is town.

i mean, 1. is saying i didn't know how ydrasse reads norwee, and 2. is eroding a townread on myself... and even if the 3. were correct, i'm literally just talking about a ping i got. and considering i did out some townpings earlier (and one of them was on *you*, so from your pov you'd surely know it can't be scum!me being an idiot just townreading partners and scumreading all townies), this feels confbiased, if not intentionally malicious.

my early game is weak

Pre-emptive excuse for future scummy play.

...it's the exact opposite? like i'm saying "i struggle in early game when it's mostly rvs, but when the game gets serious, i'll get more townie as i'll actually have something to work with". that's not a pre-emptive excuse for my future scummy play, it's setting expectations for my future townie play.

i don't like these posts from robert. i can understand some early scumreads on myself (i'll be first to tell you i have not gotten into the game yet), but both 251 and 253 feel like throwing shit and seeing what sticks. the "future excuse for scummy play" line legitimately makes no sense. also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Then we got this which fucking lol's at it. Even the acknowledgement alone in here is amazing.

happi scumday hectic

I like Norwe Robert and Infy

maybe i'm biased, but i'm really curious what makes you like robert here. [edit after reading: goes for amy dune too. like, what about robert's posting has been remotely good.]

Yin

, how many actual criminals are there in the pit?

By my count....... four.

so this would imply yin knows how many of us are criminals here? though can't know he's including himself (or yang) in that, and whether he would lie about it. hm.

the cumulus fact does not seem right, but i don't know enough about meteorology to confidently say it's incorrect.

from my 30-second google search, i'd say that it is incorrect. is there any point to even talking with these two?

i just realized

I don't know who the mafia are.

There's no reason to believe there are mafia in this game, yet. the only distinction Yang has made between good and evil is that goats are baddies and llamas are presumably the opposite

Although, I suppose Yang still told us that Yin is the one who will tell us how to spot the difference. And Yang being able to freely post does support uninformed. Something about the use of "mafia" is irking me though cause i dont think any Silent Star has had mafia in it.

if we're sure that yang is isis (i'm Not Good at alt hunting), then i'm sure yang would at least know the flavour name of the scumteam, considering isis was a reviewer of this game.

also, the "what" in 256, considering it was followed by no re-evaluation, kinda feels like scum who got caught not knowing what to do now that their point against their "scumread" was proven false, rather than a townie organically reacting to the development.

Who did Robert think Datisi was in the first place?

considering he thought i was trashing town!pooky's townread on town!datisi... i guess he thought a different player?

Setting up the Yin discredit already.

VOTE: robert

those posts on me were just bad. i can kind of excuse 251 if i squint, considering he didn't know whose alt this is (but also not really because point 1. is still awful), but the stretch of "tanner is excusing his future play!!" and the fact he's shown zero nuance in thinking about his read on me after learning that some of his points were moot... yeah no.

flea is currently next on my list. i got excited seeing 319, thinking it's actually gonna be a game related catch-up, and instead it was just... mech filler. faer only real read so far has been "tanner gut"... not vibing.

other people that i dislike so far are ydrasse and amy dunne - for kind of similar reasons i guess? ydrasse has still not really Done anything, and Amy's posts seem to be forced posting for the sake of posting.

(i can already hear robert typing how i'm blocking townread on a lot of people - yes, i am. these people aren't being townie. they deserve to get called out.)

norwee and tweetie seem like they're not internally screaming when they're posting, so i'll call those a townlean. pooky is not giving me evil vibes for once, and i don't know what that means, but i'm running with it for now. also ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too. i think everyone else is too close to the null line to go one way or the other for me.

This is beautiful. Daitsi knows how deep my catchups can go, and knows my catchup style is either intermittent post, or wall'o'fluff. Also note the "mech filler" comment.
I'm pretty sure Daitsi also knows how I can utilise mech, hell I turned a loyal 1-shot neighbouriser into a 1-shot cop AND left enough crumbs to build the witches house previously. (Still proud of that, Pooky you should remember that too seeing as it was your slot I damned. )
The other thing I like about this post, is the misyeet setups happening here.
I'm town, so is Ydrasse and Amy. "For similar reasons". I'm mech fluffing, Ydrasse "has not really done anything" and Amys posts are posted for the sake of posting.
There is not any scum mentioned in this post. Either confirmed or mech'd. Bearing in mind Nakata and Infinity were both lurking it out and I don't recall Chara being the most active either.

ircher seems like he gives absolutely zero shits so, in the absence of proper townreads, i'm calling that a townlean for now too.

Inactivity makes you townlean them? Why?

it's not inactivity, it's the random pop-ins, giving his thoughts, then fucking off and not sweating about the pressure on him. i will admit that i don't actually know whether that's +town for ircher, but as said - in the absence of people acting townie, i'm fine going for a weaker reason to townlean someone.

pedit: i didn't mean just from today. random pop-ins to give his thoughts (213, 258) while not caring about the wagon/pressure on him strikes me as somewhat more likely to come from town.

"people aren't acting townie so amma pull reads outta my butt."

OK not as bad as I'm making out, but ya know, subtle signs are as important as the big ones.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

Gone from "You absolutely should not yeet me." to "Just fucking yeet me and get me out of the game".

So far this stinks of a desperate and deepwolf setup.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

I thought you meant not getting NK'ed.
But you was saying you didn't want to get limmed?

yeah, my "i need help not getting killed" in 341 was referencing the fact i had a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on me at one time, and that i don't wish to eat the yeet. i will neither confirm nor deny whether i want to die by nightkill.

in fairness, context was based around eliminations. but like he said, a grand total of *gasp* 3 votes on him. He wasn't even half way to yeet, so why the survivalist attitude? Because the deepwolf setup is failing a little, maybe?

yin

, are you a criminal?

i'm not sure if there's a point asking this, considering we don't know if he's telling the truth either way, but that then goes for all questions, sooo.

Hey look another mech discredit attempt.

why is not getting killed so important?

because i'm town, and i don't want the town to waste a yeet on me.

hmmm....

is there a meaning behind this "hmmm"?

Amy is officially a townlean now.

was this caused by 389/390? if so, what gave you a townlean?

for the record, amy is giving me a townie vibe as well, but i can't put my finger on it.

i kiiinda wanna townlean ydrasse for 407? i have no idea what happened in ms rpg, but i've been getting the feeling that infinity sounds "...?" too. though i'm not exactly the best at reading infinity myself so /shrug. by the time i finished reading, the "...?" feeling on infinity has disappeared and has been replaced with "yeah ok i have no clue how to read her i will just ignore her for now and hope someone else does", but i'll keep that townlean on ydra.

i am

not

getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

ok friends are calling me, i got to go so i will finish the rest of this a bit quicker - liking tweetie's posts bc energy but also not really worrying about her as she's one of my "will probably stop being so townie later if scum" reads, and i'm also liking chara for ??? reasons idk i'm probably playing with fire here, i've heard spicy things about its scumgame ok cool bye

The defensive strikes again. Almost like my rep proceeds me. Tanners already rattled I got the sus on him.

i am not getting any townie pings on clidd this game, which i think is somewhat concerning, considering that every game with him so far (that i was town and thus had to read him), he'd give me those townie pings and he was town?

actually before i go, i just remembered that is a lie, he did fool me once. but also i'm still not getting any townie pings from him this game so take it as you will.

Literally just sus of everyone lol.

It would be interesting for us to discuss your read on Robert when you have time. Something tells me he's someone like ''town acting erratic/sporadic'' but not ''scum planning a push''.

it's 2am and i have a headache (an actual one, not related to this game) so i'll likely sleep soon, but i'm not sure i've got anything to say here that i've not already said. his points on me just felt really reachy. and while i know that is not necessarily scum!indicative of itself, the fact that he froze and stopped posting once he found out one of his points is moot, as opposed to started re-evaluating his push... i don't like it. it's not a slam dunk case in any way (and i'm not pretending it is), but it's the best i got so far.

i noticed you started off saying he's scumpinging you, then later on you said you don't vibe with his wagon - have you explained what changed your mind here?

Scumreading someone but not vibing with the wagon are two very different things. You can solidly scumread someone and not vibe with the wagon. How else do you find associatives?

@Tanner

Initially he pinged me as scummy, but after I started theorizing about his course of action in a scum!Robert scenario, it didn't make much sense that he specifically selected you to push, mostly because of the cost-benefit.

He attracted a lot of attention to himself and ignored your town ping on him to go into a 1v1. If you were the one who went to him first, it would make more sense for scum!him to respond appropriately with a scumread, but he was the one who went after you and started the conflict, which is why I don't see a plausible *scum motivation* in his actions (and made me reconsider the initial impression on him).

i don't really see the issue with cost-benefit - at the time of his push, i was a relatively popular scumread, having a few votes on me and not having gotten into the game yet. so not like my "vague townping on robert" was worth much of anything or like he had much to lose there. besides, he's not familiar with my game, i wouldn't say it's unlikely that scum!him thought i was a relatively easy townie to push, not being aware that a shitpush on my slot is exactly what i needed to wake up.

Freeze after lighting a spark between the two of you would also be terrible for his credibility. Would scum!Robert just not care about that?

i don't think it's an issue of not caring, i think it's an issue of not *knowing* how to respond to the new information because he was hoping his push on me would be enough to show that he's solving, at least for the time being. like, look at his recent posts, does this look like a townie who's genuinely evaluating the game:

Why did Robert think Datisi was in the game and which player?
This seems like something we should really know.

I don't know any Datisi, Pooky brought something up about a Datisi and I I get this, Datisi and Tanner are the same player?

well first of all, this is a lie, you played in a game i modded, but giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you've genuinely forgotten about me - the second part still feels off. it has been confirmed multiple times, by me as well, that this is an alt of datisi. again, one of the major points about why i'm scum (shutting down townreads of other people) has been showed to be moot (as i was shutting down a townread of myself), and there's no explanation or response from him, just more playing dumb. he's obviously not bothering to even *read* my response to him.

I see people what to eliminate me on day 1 again. I take that to mean I'm right about Tanner being scum.

this also makes no sense. like, unless this is trying to say that i'm scum, and i panicked, and i told all my scumbuddies to immediately dogpile on robert... what is this even supposed to mean?

I didn't like this when i saw it, honestly.
Strawmanning. "Everyone wants me limmed so I'm on to something here" does not equate the implication that you, a known mafia veteran, would panick and ask your buddies to dogpile. Given your buddies are Nakata, Infy and Chara, they all know better anyway. This is a BAD reaction.

Seriously? Clidd is probably my strongest tr so far.

good for you, was there a point in posting this? (also, please don't quote full wallposts if you're gonna respond to one line. highlight the relevant part, then quote.)

I think Robert’s probably town. Town!TSE made a very similar kind of slip in a game he was in.

for one, robert is (probably) not tse, but do you maybe want to link this?

The mechanics And purpose behind the Yin and Yang players aren’t clear enough for me to just blindly assume something like there has to be scum in me/Chara/Pooky just because of something Yin said.

+1. yin said he's a thief. until we have more info as to what the hell his role is here, i don't think we should be listening to what he's saying.

besides, i highly *highly* doubt hectic + isis would make a game where townies can just ask an npc for who the scum is, and that they would give an honest answer.

also saying this right now, if robert ever flips scum this game, nakata is locktown and i'm deathtunnelling ydrasse until one of us is dead.

More Yin discrediting. There's not even a thought Yin could be accurate here. Note also the defence of a buddy and threat towards a townie.
Oh, and eat my wall post. Context is key and I'm leaving nothing out. Bold is mine btw.
Scum know the setup. Just like last time, we had a major effect against us.
I'll say it again.

Occams Razor is an amazing concept for a game.

and I fully expect Hectic and Isis to troll the collective orbs off the player base by placing such a mechanic in a

Silent Star game which are known for screwy as all hell mechanics!

i think Yin said he's a thief because the character he's being is a phantom thief.

right. i still don't think it overrides my other points, that we genuinely have no clue what his role is and whether he'd be truthful to us.

yin

, is yang a criminal?

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

Discrediting Yin but still interacting? Interesting.

does playing on a different account help with that?

so far, yeah. but i've never made it to endgame with this account, which is usually where my nerves really go off the rails, so remains to be seen.

ay yo ircher, wanna place an actual vote on someone?

First time for everything, right?

I have suspisions.

do you plan actually talking about this?
I am pretty messed up on heat and medication at this point. and seeing as it's come up elsewhere, I'm on non-opioids because oh boy do I react to those, I take a mixture of Naproxen(Aleve) and Pregabalin(Lyrica) day to day, with Nefopam(Acupan) on the bad days which leaves me super messed up. (Why Americans call everything by brand name will always confuse me.)

ircher wagon feels like a wagon on a townie who's being weird. and distracting from a buddy who's caught with their pants down but people are giving them a pass because "???" "what if they're lhf".

Nothing much to say beyond people who are survivalist give me the heebies.

the most survivalistic bastard you'll see in a game, nice to meet you.

pedit: didn't see anything that shows they can't both be scum. that's just what my gut is telling me right now.

The thing I hate is people always want a case of STRONG points, never lots of weak ones. Even when the weak ones massively outweigh any solid town reasoning. Survivalism is the biggest one. Most town I know don't care about being elim'd as long as their information gained is decent.

i'm not going "two competing wagons must be t/s" > "robert is the scum, ircher is the town".
i'm going "i'm scumreading robert and i'm vaguely townie on ircher" > "their wagons are competing, i think they're t/s"

Speaking of weak, order of operations is something I'm using as part of my toolset rn, and seeing how it helps me. That second line to me reads as Robert Town, Ircher scum.
This is just a general note for me to call back to at some point for my own universial shenangians.

573 does make it sound like it has to do with Robert scum. which, sure, i could see it.
where do you get town for Ircher? he's been pretty null for me. maybe a little townier for the response to you asking him to vote and Ircher sitting on his Yin vote instead.

err, yeah, my current guess is that scum would want to subscribe to the easy ircher wagon. but i'm not saying it's impossible robert and ircher are both scum (or both town).

i talked about it in 328 and 336. like, he started receiving pressure, and instead of doing traditionally townie things he kept doing his own thing? i thought that was somewhat townie.

Not everyone responds to pressure. Generally unless you know a players meta it's NAI. As scum I flail like a beast under pressure, as town I'm next to usless under pressure too. it's just how I am, I'm more reflexive than active.

i'd have hoped seeing so many pedits of ydrasse screaming how ircher is a bad vote would've made me think she's town, but they did not. sad.

"Aww Ydrasse didn't give me a reason to townread her."

i mean, i agree that Ircher has some votes, but it feels early to say he's an easier wagon when iirc Robert had the same amount or more (at least 3, by my count), and i believe i make three on Ircher.

my point is that scum want an easy wagon on a townie. and i don't think robert is a townie. therefore robert *cannot* be an easy wagon at all.

also considering how much discussion on robert there is, and many people are going "hurr durr lhf" (while ircher is picking votes up effortlessly), robert doesn't feel like an easy wagon at all.

Thing is optimal scumplay is never to take the easy wagon D1. But to derail it.

have you read what i've written about robert and why i'm voting him? i saw you earlier asking that there was a robert thing, and like. what do you think of my case?

I'm in ISO right now and WHAT CASE!? THERE IS NO CASE HERE.

actually i don't care enough about it, hopefully he's gonna come back and make his alignment really obvious, one way or another.

why you voting chara, pooky?

Literally the entire case is a meta read. Amazing. And one you're not even that bothered about.

Case on robert is hes been caught in a lie about knowing mains/alts

it's not. my main points against him are the garbage push he made on me, then freezing / not knowing how to react once the information about alts came to light (second part of 545).

This is 100% absolute horse crap. Your case was entirely meta based and backed up with ketchup/catsup pretending to be hot sauce. I wanted to feel a burn, all I felt was sweet tanginess.

pedit: i vaguely remember seeing town!robert act a bit more freely in the game i modded, but (1) been a while ago and (2) not like i was putting in effort into reading him there. i'll try to skim his completed games at some point to see if anything interesting pops up. maybe. idk i hate meta research.

That would be really helpful.

debatable. second-hand meta usually just makes me tunnel what i already think. and you'd think that would stop me from saying "i should do meta research" but it does not.

do you plan on linking that "slip" from tse?

Tanner i’m very interested in your response now.

here's a take - i see absolutely nothing town-indicative in what robert has posted in his return.

upon getting back, he started getting pissy, doing the most surface-level omgus. he repeated not once, not twice, but three times that he's mad he's being wagoned for "not knowing alt accounts". i explicitly said that i don't give a shit he didn't know who i am - my problem is that his original attack on me and his reaction upon learning about the alt both reek of scum. his original points on me were garbage, and he has showed no re-evaluation of my slot upon learning the new info. even now! he chose to completely ignore me and what i'm saying (and why i'm voting him) and instead just go omgus someone else. you'd think town!him would, i don't know, at least *address* his read on me (you know, the thing that got him into this mess in the first place) by this point?

why the hell are people reading him as town? because he got mad? like, ircher called him out, he wasn't doing jack shit other than being mad and insisting he's being wagoned for not knowing alts. that's not town-indicative behaviour. and the "it's obvious i won't make it to night so people defending me are suspicious" like, you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Kinda like you're getting a lil shirty with my single handed push on you? That I've been sus on you the entire game? That you know by my rep I tunnel and its rare I stop? how about your points? Your persistent meta, using that he got caught out by not remembering every player and alts in a game he played in? Showed no-revaluation because why would he? Who you are had nothing to do with this push on you that I recall, I may be wrong.
Theres something amazing here though.

you had 3 votes as an early day wagon, who the hell are you kidding by pretending to think your yeet is already set in stone?

Coming from the wonder defender. Beautiful.

Nakata thinks that friend Tanner is likely town.

could Nakata elaborate on this?

Do I smell a connection? A forced interaction?
It smells either way.

VOTE: infinity

Literally 3 posts before this with Infinity interactions/mentions.
"BE YEET FRIEND! I WILLST SEE THOU AGAINST SOON!"

for the record - i still would prefer to yeet robert. but i see everyone is going by the "he came back and *gasp* made posts and showed emotion, obviously town!!" logic, so.

i'm back to thinking amy is on the scummier side of things. i don't know why, but some of her recent posting feels like she's not happy to be here. (before you ask why i voted infinity - because i'm not townreading her either and there was already a vote on her.)

however, while i was starting to feel better feelings about nakata, 866 feels slightly off to me, specifically the last line. like, i get the idea behind "forcing townbloccs is +scum behaviour", but, that's a *big* part for why you're voting your preferred scumread? i dunno.

tl;dr, reads probably being trash.

Pretty sure this vote is weaker than an RVS vote, and the disclaimer is here again.

I think Tanner is nervous scum Once again we have the self-aware "oh woe is unto me, my reads! They are trash! so low as to even be unworthy of pigs muck!"
-Dramatisation by me. Im that way out currently :3

i will be doing absolutely zero second-hand meta research, thanks.

how is it supposed to be "obvious" you're town here? you're not being townie.

No but you expect us to. And pretty obvious to you I'd imagine.

that amy/nakata back and forth was so unpleasant to read, what the fuck.

Tanner, what makes you think I’m unhappy to be here? I’m really excited about this game, so I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from?

your recent posts before my 868 felt kind of bland and boring. and 844 felt scummy. i'm not too certain about your being scum right now though, recent posting felt better. i'll probably shelf it back to think about it later, as i doubt you're getting run up anyway.

clidd is probably town. also 967 (now that i'm actually reading it and not sleepily skipping over it) does feel like town ydrasse. i don't think i agree with the idea that scum!infinity > scum!nakata, but i wouldn't be *terribly* surprised i was wrong there. to me it feels obvious why nakata isn't extending the same mentality from robert to infinity, and i guess i don't really find it scummy, but this is probably better left for him to answer.

Posts are bland and boring (been reading his own apparently), there's a scummy post but behold! He is upon the fence! Amy is an established SR of Tanners at this point from the gist of the posts, so this jarrs me a little bit. "i'll shelf it for now because you're not getting run up anyway" - I hate this, I hate this so much. Why not case a scumread and get it going? At least establish it? And before you say anything, I've been on you all dang game.

To be completely honest, you actually haven’t been very nice to me so far. I have no idea why?
I don’t see why 844 was scummy. That’s typical how I solve. I’m just trying to figure out who to vote for. If this game was based on who I absolutely would not vote for, this game would be hella easier.

apologies if i've been rude anywhere, but i don't think suspecting you to be scum or asking you why you're posting something is not being nice? we're playing mafia.

844 felt like trying to paint non-scummy things as coming from scum. like, the "if he's so certain on robert!scum, why pivot to tweetie" part felt kind of intentionally trying to make his actions more malicious then they really are.

How do you solve? Normally I can work out how someone plays and see their style. You're not scumhunting, you're not town hunting. You're not hunting at all that I can see, not even reflexivly.

you quoted my wall where i said i thought clidd was scummy to say "really? he's one of my strongest townreads" without explaining why you think so, asking for my reasons, or trying to change my mind. that's a scummy post that adds nothing to the table while attempting to make it look like you're contributing something. so i asked what was the point of posting it.

your constant "oh i'm so frustrated, i don't have a strong scumread, i don't know where to vote, woe is me" are really starting to sound fake.

saying "i don't know who to vote and i don't wanna misyeet" is one of the easiest things to fake as scum. it also adds literally nothing to the conversation. the longer you keep that act up, the more fake it gets, and i'm gonna call you out on it.

I'm cracking up again, your efforts so far have been so half assed that you can call someone out is amazing.